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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 30, 2018 0:28:46 GMT -5
#47: Droid World:
Loved it! Kligson is great... I picture him as a clone trooper survived to retirement (as Rex and friends did). Obviously, there was nothing about the Clones yet (other than the fact that the Clone Wars were a thing), but that's ok.
Also, the Empire outlawed war robots , so the fact that they are designing them is wrong... even if they do make the rules, they outlawed them for a reason... but again, I don't think that was a thing back then, so not a big deal.
The weird colors were very un-Star Wars, but certainly make sense for an early 80s comic. The main quibble I had was that 'Droid World' was awfully small (as we see it blast off)... smalled than a Star Destroyer for sure.
Confessor mentioned he didn't like that the droids were sent for something so routine, but I'd argue it shows how important the mission was and makes it seem that war droid is scary without having to see it in action... sure any old R2 unit COULD do it, but they wanted to use the best. (The argument falls apart a bit when one remembers that R2 messed up in the first place to require the mission, but, well, they are main characters)
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Post by rom on Dec 30, 2018 0:51:31 GMT -5
Dec 7, 2018 10:49:36 GMT -6 tarkintino said:
It does not matter if you thought the film was "capitalizing" on Star Wars. Bond adaptions have always had significant changes from book to screenplay, with few ever being even 50% of the source. That was no shock in the case of Moonraker, either. The point is that unlike the false theory that there was "too much Star Wars" or "Star Wars fatigue" as the excuse for its increasingly poor productions / souring on the public, in the 70s, there were Bond movies every other year (with the aforementioned lone exception between The Man with the Golden Gun and The Spy Who Loved Me), yet there was no fatigue, with the final Bond film of the decade--1979's Moonraker--being the biggest film of the franchise up to that date. Quality was and remains the issue, not quantity, and for Star Wars--unlike the that 1970s Bond example--quality has taken a serious hit, along with all of the other wrongheaded issues plaguing that sequel series and spin-offs.
Disagree with this completely. Moonraker was obviously capitalizing & even trying to copy the success of Star Wars to a great extent. There is no way that a 1979 James Bond film would have been set in space if Star Wars hadn't come out in 1977. Here's a good article on the subject: io9.gizmodo.com/looking-back-at-moonrakers-insane-attempt-to-turn-james-1795486523 There were actually a plethora of sci-fi related movies & TV shows that came out after Star Wars in '77 that were obviously trying to capitalize on & even try to copy that film, the most obvious being Moonraker, the TV shows Buck Rogers in the 25th Century, Battlestar Galactica, etc. Dec 7, 2018 10:49:36 GMT -6 tarkintino said:Han did not make "jokes" in the film, otherwise it would be easy to name the exact scenes where he was deliberately doing that.I guess you & the general public (including me) have a different definition of what constitutes a joke; to me, it means an attempt at humor - and there were plenty of examples of humorous Han lines in ROTJ, much more than in the ANH & ESB - for example: When Luke and Han are captured and put in front of Jabba the Hutt for a death sentence, Han asks Luke “How we doing,” to which Luke replies, “Same as always.” Han’s retort is a sarcastic "That bad, huh?” - ha ha When Han, Luke, Leia, and Chewie are flying in a stolen Imperial shuttle, none of them know if the code they stole is going to get them clearance to land on the Endor mooon. When Chewie asks Han what he should do, he tells Chewie to “Fly casual" - LOL “I’m out of it for a little while and everyone gets delusions of grandeur.” (in Jabba's Palace)
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Post by rom on Dec 30, 2018 1:16:51 GMT -5
I have a totally different take on Lando than you guys it seems! With Han, it was clear he sympathizes with the rebels from the beginning, despite the fact the he claims he doesn't.. he's trying to protect his self-image. The fact that Lando was in charge of Bespin is EXACTLY why I don't think he's a rebel until he has to be. He IS the establishment. I look at it this way, if Vader didn't decided to flex his muscles just because he could, Lando would have been fine with Han in Fett's hands and Leia and Chewey under house arrest, as the original deal was. This. Lando was not at all altruistic in ESB, but a businessman first & foremost - and he wouldn't have turned on Vader if the original agreement had gone as originally planned. These exchanges between Lando & Vader in ESB are very telling: LANDO: Lord Vader, what about Leia and the Wookiee? VADER: They must never again leave this city. LANDO: That was never a condition of our agreement, nor was giving Han to this bounty hunter! VADER: Perhaps you think you're being treated unfairly. LANDO: No. VADER: Good. It would be unfortunate if I had to leave a garrison here.
and this later exchange: Vader: Calrissian. Take the princess and the Wookiee to my ship.Lando: You said they'd be left at the city under my supervision!Vader: I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.Lando saw that Vader kept changing the original deal, and felt that if Vader was so untrustworthy that he would keep going back on their original agreement - there was no certainty that he would leave Lando & Cloud City alone - as was the original promise. So, I think that's why Lando decided to use Lobot & his Security guards to turn on Vader & the Empire, and try to rescue Han. He realized that Cloud City was probably going to be taken over by the Empire anyway, which would negate the whole reason he was running the Tibanna gas mining operation in the first place - i.e., to make money & try to avoid the Empire's attention. starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cloud_City
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Dec 30, 2018 10:10:28 GMT -5
Lando was not at all altruistic in ESB, but a businessman first & foremost - and he wouldn't have turned on Vader if the original agreement had gone as originally planned. That's all true, but just because Lando wasn't altruistic, it doesn't mean that he had no concern for his old friend Han Solo. The initial deal that Lando struck was simply that Han would be held captive as bait for this Skywalker person, who Lando had never heard of. Lando agreed to partake in the entrapment because a) with the Empire already at Cloud City, he had very little choice, and b) because he had received assurances from Darth Vader that, in return for his help, the Empire would leave Cloud City alone. When it became clear that Han would be handed over to Boba Fett and that Leia and Chewbacca would be placed under house arrest, that's when Lando began to become angry and dissatisfied with the changes to the deal. Once the deal was altered further, with Han having been frozen in Carbonite (a process that could've easily killed him) and Leia and Chewie were being taken away by the Empire, that's when Lando finally rebelled. He did this in part because it obviously called into question Vader's promise that the Empire would leave Cloud City alone, but also because it meant that Lando was betraying Han in a much bigger way than he had initially agreed to. He was now handing his friend a death sentence at the hands of Jabba the Hutt. It was this betrayal of his old friend and the realisation that Vader would never honour his promises that made Lando side with the Rebels and help them escape Cloud City. But in terms of his joining the Rebellion in full, that was a result of four factors: his desire to rectify his mistake by finding and rescuing Han; resentment over how the Empire had shafted him and ruined his very profitable Tibanna Gas mining operation; his underlying general dislike of the Empire (which Han alludes to before the Millennium Falcon arrives at Bespin); and that fact that, ultimately, he's a decent man...he's a hero.
"The Dreams of Cody Sunn-Childe" story tells us that, in addition to his underlying dislike of the Empire (for whatever reason), Lando had also looked up to the Rebellion in general and the Rebel hero Cody Sunn-Childe in particular as a younger man. Obviously that's not cannon or anything, but I don't think it's completely out of character for Lando.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 30, 2018 21:56:05 GMT -5
I think the Lando we see in Rebels is more along the lines of the characterization I picture... he helped the Rebels when it worked for him, and was willing to do them a solid if it didn't stick his neck out, but when the chips were down, he cleared out and stayed out of the Empire's way. That's what he was trying to do in Bespin, it just didn't work out. Last, after Vader screwed him, he threw his lot in because, as you say, he had no love for the Empire. It's not totally clear to me that he really considered Han an 'old friend' or not... I mean, Han did steal his ship in a game of cards, that'd not a GOOD memory. I really find it super interesting how we get such different vibes from the same character.. this is why I love discussion forums
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Post by screamsinthevoid on Jan 9, 2019 18:27:36 GMT -5
Speaking of Lando , I wish he had gotten a little more heroic representation on the covers of the series . His first appearance on a cover shows him in a negative light with the Betrayal At Bespin title . the story Coffin In The Clouds has him getting knocked out by Lobot , The Big Con has him in disguise and The Sweetheart Contract has him falling through the air in panic . I would have liked to have seen him in his own solo adventure looking heroic on a cover .I am working on a fan art cover to rectify this and will post it when it is finished .
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Post by Confessor on Jan 10, 2019 0:05:07 GMT -5
Speaking of Lando , I wish he had gotten a little more heroic representation on the covers of the series . His first appearance on a cover shows him in a negative light with the Betrayal At Bespin title . the story Coffin In The Clouds has him getting knocked out by Lobot , The Big Con has him in disguise and The Sweetheart Contract has him falling through the air in panic . I would have liked to have seen him in his own solo adventure looking heroic on a cover. The cover of SW #50 has him in a heroic, action pose, but of course that's an ensemble picture, rather than one focusing in on Lando alone. I am working on a fan art cover to rectify this and will post it when it is finished . I look forward to seeing that.
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Post by screamsinthevoid on Jan 12, 2019 21:37:26 GMT -5
Here is my re imagined cover of issue 83 of the original series featuring Lando Calrissian in a more heroic light , and yes , I took some liberties with some elements ....https://www.deviantart.com/screamsinthevoid/art/Original-Marvel-Star-Wars-83-re-imagined-780740490
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 13, 2019 11:42:41 GMT -5
Here is my re imagined cover of issue 83 of the original series featuring Lando Calrissian in a more heroic light , and yes , I took some liberties with some elements ....https://www.deviantart.com/screamsinthevoid/art/Original-Marvel-Star-Wars-83-re-imagined-780740490 Nice work!!!
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 13, 2019 12:04:32 GMT -5
Here is my re imagined cover of issue 83 of the original series featuring Lando Calrissian in a more heroic light , and yes , I took some liberties with some elements ....https://www.deviantart.com/screamsinthevoid/art/Original-Marvel-Star-Wars-83-re-imagined-780740490 Very nice.
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Post by screamsinthevoid on Jan 14, 2019 4:42:53 GMT -5
thank you ! Here is a link to a very fun podcast that reviewed every issue of the original Marvel Comics series a few years back ...http://twotruefreaks.com/shows.php?show=6
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 14, 2019 11:05:47 GMT -5
thank you ! Here is a link to a very fun podcast that reviewed every issue of the original Marvel Comics series a few years back ...http://twotruefreaks.com/shows.php?show=6 I tried listening to the Two True Freaks podcast before (not necessarily that one), but I couldn't get on with it: I found their voices or the way they talked about stuff really annoying. We actually have our own CCF Podcast series and the latest episode is part 1 of a four part discussion of the Marvel SW series featuring yours truly... classiccomics.org/thread/5742/star-wars-marvel-comics-confessor
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Post by screamsinthevoid on Jan 14, 2019 23:34:55 GMT -5
well , to each their own . I enjoyed Two True Freaks and their voice did not bother me . I will say that it took them a while to get to the reviews each episode though . I think I relate to them a lot due to being close to them in age . (I am 47 ) . I will give your podcast a listen though . I have enjoyed your reviews here as well even though I don't agree with all of them . I am a fan of Cynthia Martin's art , especially in issue 95 to 97 . Though I do agree that she needed a lot of help with the ships .I liked the manga influence she brought to comics before it was popular . The issues between Empire and Jedi will always be my faves though and issue 61 is the high water mark for me ( as per my username ) , and I never cared much for Carmine Infantino's art but for the issues inked by Terry Austin and the Vader vs. Valance issue , but Archie Goodwin's writing made up for it and I still read the issues for that reason . Though some have said they feel Infantino had a certain charm . I think he was more suited to the superhero genre myself .
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 14, 2019 23:39:14 GMT -5
#48: The Third Law
I definitely haven't read this one before... it was a bit baffling. The Rebel Alliance had enough liquid cash on hand to just BUY X-Wings? That doesn't make alot of sense.. nor does Vader wanting any material thing over simply capturing Leia. I didn't even think about the fact that anything from Alderaan should be kaput... maybe that's why Vader wanted them, because they survived the explosion and were full of Dark Side Energy (Do I get a No-Prize?)
As far the Leia's 'tricks'.. I thought the gravitation disruptor made sense.. it seemed like she packed it specifically to avoid the 3rd law. I agree 100% that R2 suddenly being able to project realistic holograms was nuts.. why wouldn't he do this all the time? It has so many applications?
That said, I did like the concept of a Banking World.. and the customs 'come on in, but don't expect to leave' was fun.
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Post by Confessor on Jan 15, 2019 22:33:54 GMT -5
I didn't even think about the fact that anything from Alderaan should be kaput... maybe that's why Vader wanted them, because they survived the explosion and were full of Dark Side Energy ( Do I get a No-Prize?) That said, I did like the concept of a Banking World.. and the customs 'come on in, but don't expect to leave' was fun. You've read my review of "The Third Law", so I won't repeat what I wrote there. Except to say that, yes, the idea of a banking world is a good one and pretty memorable. I enjoyed this story a lot back when I was as a kid, but as an adult I think it's a real mess and doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Still, my childhood enthusiasm for this issue rose-tints my glasses and makes me much fonder of it than I really should be.
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