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Post by jbruel0 on Jan 16, 2015 9:46:49 GMT -5
The Thomas chronology published in Conan saga from #72 is also worth to be read. Hey, I hadn't seen Superdupont in a good long while, J! Did you read the Superdupont/Superman crossover by Gotlib and Neal Adams? Not as funny as it could have been, but it was certainly a unique piece. Is it this one? ![](//storage.proboards.com/5603554/thumbnailer/RywmCHLYCSGnRosoLkE_.jpg)
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 16, 2015 13:36:15 GMT -5
Yup!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 17, 2015 11:28:44 GMT -5
Savage sword of Conan #49, Feb 1980Nestor Redondo gives us a second cover in a row, showing Conan wearing a crown-like helmet; appropriate, since this issue begins the story of how the Cimmerian became king of Aquilonia. Table of contentsWhen madness wears the crown, a Conan adventure Chains and fetters, part II, an article on slavery in the Hyborian Age Woman from Khitai, a "tale of the Hyborian age". ------------------------------------------------------------ When madness wears the crownScript by Roy Thomas Art by John Buscema and Tony DeZuniga First chapter in a four-part adaptation the novel "Conan the liberator", by L. Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter. Where to start? Better critics and commentators have frequently explained how disappointing this novel is. If I had to distill its essence in one word, it would probably be "tedious". And yet, it means to show us how Conan became king; surely that must be a dramatic and exciting tale? No such luck, alas, as it plods heavily toward its foregone conclusion, with cookie cutter characters doing... stuff. Roy Thomas did his best to add some spice to the tale, adding scenes in which the Cimmerian actually does something, but even so this issue and the next two lack the power of most of the previous 48. (The fourth chapter at least shows Conan killing the king he gets the crown from, so it's a bit more interesting). This issue sets the pieces for a standard civil war story. Money must be found, people hired, food and fodder provided, troops must be moved across land. De Camp wants it all to feel real, I suppose, which in a sense is commendable; but you can make things look real without stopping to chronicle every little supply chain problem... Howard never had a problem with that! We begin by showing the villains of the play: King Numedides of Aquilonia, whom we already know to be a jealous and suspiscious sort, is here shown as a bloated, superstitious and insane tyrant; the kind that has gold statues of himself cast while his people hungers. He even bathes in the blood of virgins to regain his youth, for crying out loud! If we needed some moral ground to justify Conan usurping the crown, it's provided here. ![](http://i.imgur.com/JTaLTzu.jpg) His pet wizard is one Thulandra Thuu, who for once isn't from Stygia (although he does worship Set). He seems to hail from some eastern land beyond Khitai, probably some remnant of the Lemurian Isles from the Thurian Age. We quickly learn that Thulandra Thuu means to eventually usurp the crown. In the meantime, he serves Numedides, does his experiments on children and virgins, and does whatever a wizard does at court. ![](http://i.imgur.com/xxMWiHX.jpg) Conan and the Aquilonian rebels we met at the end of last issue reach Messantia, the capital of Argos, from where they intend to launch their rebellion. The king of Argos is not unsympathetic to their cause, provided they don't cause trouble within his own borders. With the treasure of Tranicos as their war chest, they start hiring soldiers and hangers-on, soon leading an army of ten thousand men. The business of administrating so many people quickly makes Conan irascible and short-fused, and his friends conclude that he really needs to get laid. Following the suggestion of a weasely soldier (who is actually in the employ of Thulandra Thuu), they get Conan to go see a famous dancer in a local tavern, Alcina, whose looks remind the Cimmerian of his past lover Bêlit. She becomes his kept woman, because hey! If it's good for Tyrion Lannister to pay a woman to sleep with him, it must be for Conan the liberator (Lord, what hath de Camp wrought?) Naturally, the lady is a spy for Thulandra Thuu, with whom she communicates thanks to a magical plate (Thulandra Thuu has most of the plate, minus a chip; Alcina has the chip. The two pieces are like entangled particles!) ![](http://i.imgur.com/92uVCFo.jpg) Thanks to Alcina, Thulandra Thuu can know in advance where and when the rebel forces will be found; he shares this tactical information with an Aquilian general, Amulius Procas. Knowing in advance where Conan and his men will cross the Alimane river that separates Argos from Aquilonia, Procas prepares an ambush; he catches the rebels mid-stream and wins a major victory. Little does he know, however, that Thulandra Thuu intends to get rid of him as soon as is convenient, for he sees Procas as an obstacle to his own plans. The chapter ends as Conan and the survivors of his rebels regroup, promising to salvage what they can from the rout and to keep striving. Notes: - When it was written, the traditional Conan chronology did not take into account the yet-unpublished The black stranger nor the unfinished drafts of Wolves beyond the border. In that chronology, parsimony suggests that the Cimmerian gained popularity in Aquilonia by helping defend its western border against the Picts, sometimes toward the end of his fourth decade (as seen in Beyond the Black River). The two ommitted stories state that Conan was active in the westermark many years prior to that, and certain recent Conan scholars have postulated that the Cimmerian later served Aquilonia as a general in such a way that he ingratiated himself to the population of Poitain, in the south of the country. While it is true that Conan was popular in Poitain (enough so that count Trocero suggests to make Conan king of Poitain when he shows up alive after having been declared dead in The Hour of the Dragon), there is no way to know whether that affection existed before he took the crown; perhaps Conan's rule was just more agreeable to the recently-annexed and free-willed Poitainians than were the reigns of his predecessors or that of the usurper Valerius. In any case, the Marvel version follows the traditional chronology and Conan is 40 or so in this story. - King Numedides was represented as a long haired and fit fellow in issues 47 and 48; here's he's represented as a fat and balding toad. - The story of how Prospero, Count Trocero and councillor Publius helped Conan escape execution and flee Aquilonia's capital (a story which occurs right before issues 47 and 48) would be told years later in SSoC #201. - Numedides was mentioned as king of Aquilonia as far back as CtB #6. In the fragment that would become "drums of Tombalku", Howard called the Aquilonian king Vilerus, but that name wasn't used in SSoC #21, which adapted that fragment as "the horror from the red tower".
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 17, 2015 11:43:12 GMT -5
Chains and fetters, part IIAn article by Fred Blosser Blosser is one of the early Conan scholars whose work could be seen in fanzines like The Howard Collector and Savage Sword of Conan. Here he continues his study on slavery in the Hyborian age. The article is illustrated by Neal Adams and a few others, with this nice sketch by Big John Buscema. The woman from KhitaiScript by Don Glut Art by Gary Brodsky and Tony DeZuniga ![](http://i.imgur.com/Yb8igh3.jpg) Soft porn comes to Savage Sword! For a few issues in the 1979-1980 years there was a more relaxed attitude regarding nudity in SSoC, and more often than not that made sense in the context of the story. In a few rare cases, the mag went overboard with it... and this is the most egregious example. This short tale of the Hyborian Age is set in a harem. The many young wives of an apparently oblivious or cowardly king are the victims of continuous rape by the king's personal guard, Shorg. Cripes, doesn't the idiot know that guarding harems is a job for eunuchs??? As the tale begins, the king receives a new wife-to-be from the faraway land of Khitai. She says to be bearing a special gift for him, but will only give it after the marriage ceremony. During the night that precedes the marriage, the other wives of the harem warn the newcomer of Shorg's violent and lecherous ways, but she doesn't seem overly worried. When the brute comes for her that evening, he throws her in a secluded alcove from where a long scream presently echoes. The next day, the marriage ceremony is held with Shorg nowhere to be seen. The bride presents her husband with a splendid diamond pendant, and the camera zooms to show the tiny figure of Shorg trapped inside the stone. The story has a distinct Creepy feel to it, but it might have been just a little to creepy for standrad SSoC readers, I think.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 17, 2015 13:13:30 GMT -5
Savage sword of Conan #50, March 1980![](http://i.imgur.com/Z0C0x9q.jpg) A third Nestor Redondo cover! This one has a Rubens-like quality; it's probably due to the way the bodies seen here are anything but flat, with generous curves and depth. Nice work. Table of contentsSwords across the Alimane, a Conan story Conan at fifty, an article celebrating the magazine's milestone 50th issue!
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Post by berkley on Jan 17, 2015 13:33:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I liked all the Redondo covers, which were a little different from the traditional, Frazetta-style Conan covers we usually saw. It would have been interesting to see Redondo draw an entire story for the mag.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 17, 2015 13:34:53 GMT -5
I enjoyed the movies for what they were - stupid fun. Right from the beginning it was clear that they had little connection with the "real" Conan of the comics, let alone REH's stories, so I always thought of them as a separate thing. I agree that the movies made Conan more popular than ever for a few brief years - and for that very reason contributed to the eventual waning of that popularity as the character began to seem a bit of a joke - and a dated joke at that. The limited, mid-grade but steady popularity that had been built gradually over the previous 10 years or so by the comics and paperbacks was replaced by a briefly more impressive and widespread pop-culture trendiness that faded quickly as those things tend to do, and that probably did damage to the character in the long run. What I've never really gotten is this... wouldn't some combination of Conan as a teen (ala Busiek's 'Born on the Battlefield) leading into the Frost Giant's daughter make a hell of a movie? They could easily then do 'Tower of the Elephant', and then the Belit era (at least 2 movies there)... it's BEGGING for a proper franchise... I mean the friggin' Hobbit got 3 movies! Why try to tell his whole life story (Which encompasses thousands of pages of stories) in two hours?
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Post by berkley on Jan 17, 2015 13:42:40 GMT -5
I enjoyed the movies for what they were - stupid fun. Right from the beginning it was clear that they had little connection with the "real" Conan of the comics, let alone REH's stories, so I always thought of them as a separate thing. I agree that the movies made Conan more popular than ever for a few brief years - and for that very reason contributed to the eventual waning of that popularity as the character began to seem a bit of a joke - and a dated joke at that. The limited, mid-grade but steady popularity that had been built gradually over the previous 10 years or so by the comics and paperbacks was replaced by a briefly more impressive and widespread pop-culture trendiness that faded quickly as those things tend to do, and that probably did damage to the character in the long run. What I've never really gotten is this... wouldn't some combination of Conan as a teen (ala Busiek's 'Born on the Battlefield) leading into the Frost Giant's daughter make a hell of a movie? They could easily then do 'Tower of the Elephant', and then the Belit era (at least 2 movies there)... it's BEGGING for a proper franchise... I mean the friggin' Hobbit got 3 movies! Why try to tell his whole life story (Which encompasses thousands of pages of stories) in two hours? I think it's related to the same mentality that leads, say, the Batman filmmakers to cram 3 or 4 villains and storylines into one bloated 2 & 1&2 hour movie instead of just telling one story well: they don't really have that much faith in the material they're dealing with so they shoehorn in as much as they can in the hopes that viewers will be so distracted they won't notice how weak the whole thing is.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 17, 2015 13:47:36 GMT -5
Swords across the AlimaneScript by Roy Thomas Art by John Buscema and Tony DeZuniga Part two of the adaptation of the novel Conan the liberator, by L. Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter Conan and the rebel forces of Aquilonia have been handed a severe defeat by the forces of loyalist general Amulius Procas. News of this event prompts the Aquilonian government to assume that it's all over but the shouting, and its new ambassador to Argos makes the blunder of trying to force that country's king to officially turn its back on his rebellious hosts. Needless to say, the king of Argos is offended by this high-handedness and later in the issue will provide help to the rebels. Alcina, Thulandra Thuu's beautiful agent, gets Conan to drink a poisoned potion. (I kid you not, it's supposed to be an aphrodisiac. Conan needs viagra, now??? Howard is spinning in his grave!) ![](http://i.imgur.com/BxDPFSc.jpg) Alcina mistakenly informs her master of Conan's death. We can't blame her: she gave him a heavy dose of poison, and after trying to reach her he finally collapsed in a death-like coma. But we'll soon see that he's still alive thanks to his strong constitution. Meanwhile, upon receiving news of the rebel leader's death, king Numedides orders his general Amulius Procas to cross into Argos to crush the last embers of the rebellion. Procas knows this might mean war with Argos, but he's duty-bound to obey. This is good news to Thulandra Thuu, who sees an opportunity to rid himself of Procas and to disgrace his memory at the same time. He charges Alcina to pay a visit to the general and murder him, which will leave the poor man unable to protest when the Aquilonian crown explains to Argos that the border incident was actually due to Procas taking a regrettable initiative. Thulandra Thuu means to replace Procas with a man he can better control, Ascalante count of Thune. (Yes, it is the same Ascalante we met in The phoenix on the sword, the one who blamed his exile on Conan and had Thoth-Amon as a body slave). Alcina meets Procas in his camp, learns that Conan still lives, but goes through with her mission of murder even though the general proves to be nearly as hard to kill as the Cimmerian. He struggles with her before keeling over, a knife in his chest. Alcina escapes the general's tent, taking advantage of the rainy night. ![](http://i.imgur.com/OveHsQg.jpg) Soon thereafter she realizes that when he grabbed her, Procas must have torn away the talisman that allows her to communicate with Thulandra Thuu. She has no choice but to ride all the way to Tarantia, Aquilonia's capital, to warn her master of Conan's survival. ![](http://i.imgur.com/L23ZII9.jpg) One of the soldiers present when the corpse of Procas is discovered finds the talisman and puts it on his neck; we suspect that we haven't seen the last of this baubble. ![](http://i.imgur.com/cYItJ5X.jpg) Meanwhile, the rebellion spreads in Aquilonia. The unhappy people, fed up with taxes, exactions, bad government and the increasingly obvious madness of their king, start killing noblemen and commiting terrorist acts. One night, a mob even attacks the border legion under the command of Ascalante; the count of Thune has no choice but to escape on a horse in his bedclothes, swearing to one day take revenge on "Conan the liberator". We will meet him again one day in the very first Conan story Howard wrote, The phoenix on the sword. ![](http://i.imgur.com/QqC0PkH.jpg) Things are starting to look up for Conan's forces, now that the Aquilonian population is in open revolt and that their most gifted opponent, Amulius Procas, has been killed by his own side. Many surviving members of the border legion even decide to join the ranks of the rebels (including the guy who found Alcina's talisman). Conan muses that new governmental forces will eventually arrive, and that "then shall come the final battle-- which will decide the fate of Aquilonia for perhaps a thousand centuries-- and our fates as well!" A thousand centuries is 100 000 years. Conan is pretty optimistic about the stability of Aquilonia after he's put its affairs in order!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 17, 2015 14:08:43 GMT -5
Conan at fiftyPresumably written by Roy Thomas, calling himself "a nameless editor" here! A retrospective of the mag's 50 first issues after it evolved from Savage Tales. The title considered at first had been "The sword of Conan", but that had felt a little tame... and furthermore, Roy liked how Stan Lee added awesome adjectives to Marvel's early titles: "the amazing Spider-Man", the Incredible Hulk", etc. And since Spider-Man, who had first appeared in Amazing Fantasy, had retained the amazing adjective, why shouldn't "the sword of Conan", evolving from Savage Tales, retain the savage adjective? And thus was The savage sword of Conan the barbarian born. The several milestones of the mag are reviewed, and we are promised that "the best is yet to come"... a prophecy that would alas not really come to pass. But that does not detract from an amazingly great run. Finally, also worthy of mention in this issue is a darn cool ad by something called Supergraphics, offering insanely cool books. The Studio is a beautiful art book by Barry Windsor-Smith, Jeffrey Jones, Mike Kaluta and Berni Wrightson. King of the world is a S&S novel by Wally Wood. Voltarr is of course the Conan-like character so beautifully drawn by Alfredo Alcala. Bloodstar is the masterful tale of fantasy inspired by Howard's story the valley of the worm and one of Rich Corben's most accomplished works. So much awesomeness!!! (I have reservations about Great Balls of Fire, though, which I leafed through when it came out... its page on Conan described the Cimmerian as "a crypto-homosexual since he often hides in caves" or words to that effect. That was a multiple WTF moment for me, since (a) Conan does not routinely hide in caves; (b) I've never been made aware of any connection between homosexuality and spelunking; (c) Conan has made his preference for girls clear enough over the years, one would think, and (d) if Conan had really been repressing his homosexuality for decades, he would probably have come out of the closet after he became the most powerful king in the world. (I suspect Harrison was taking the piss out of Conan fans, here).
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 17, 2015 14:59:44 GMT -5
Yeah, I liked all the Redondo covers, which were a little different from the traditional, Frazetta-style Conan covers we usually saw. It would have been interesting to see Redondo draw an entire story for the mag. We got the next best thing in SSoC #90, which Nestor inked over John Buscema. It looks reaaaally good.
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Post by benday-dot on Jan 17, 2015 18:57:41 GMT -5
(I have reservations about Great Balls of Fire, though, which I leafed through when it came out... its page on Conan described the Cimmerian as "a crypto-homosexual since he often hides in caves" or words to that effect. That was a multiple WTF moment for me, since (a) Conan does not routinely hide in caves; (b) I've never been made aware of any connection between homosexuality and spelunking; (c) Conan has made his preference for girls clear enough over the years, one would think, and (d) if Conan had really been repressing his homosexuality for decades, he would probably have come out of the closet after he became the most powerful king in the world. (I suspect Harrison was taking the piss out of Conan fans, here). No only that but in the ancient world, which partakes amply in the pastiche of Howards conceived Hyboria, homosexuality was seen in a different light. It was considered acceptable, even manly, for the heroic warrior to take up with male paramours. Achilles and Patroclus being the most famous example. Even if this tradition did not extend to Conan's northern "European" climes, Conan himself was a well traveled man of the world and came to see through most prejudices (the racial overtones of stories like The Vale of Lost Women aside). The greatest offense in Conan's eyes was the soft civilized man and/or the dabbler in magic. If your orientation allowed for good drink and lusty battle I'm sure Conan would not have stood for any closet homophobia.
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Post by berkley on Jan 17, 2015 19:30:06 GMT -5
(I have reservations about Great Balls of Fire, though, which I leafed through when it came out... its page on Conan described the Cimmerian as "a crypto-homosexual since he often hides in caves" or words to that effect. That was a multiple WTF moment for me, since (a) Conan does not routinely hide in caves; (b) I've never been made aware of any connection between homosexuality and spelunking; (c) Conan has made his preference for girls clear enough over the years, one would think, and (d) if Conan had really been repressing his homosexuality for decades, he would probably have come out of the closet after he became the most powerful king in the world. (I suspect Harrison was taking the piss out of Conan fans, here). No only that but in the ancient world, which partakes amply in the pastiche of Howards conceived Hyboria, homosexuality was seen in a different light. It was considered acceptable, even manly, for the heroic warrior to take up with male paramours. Achilles and Patroclus being the most famous example. Even if this tradition did not extend to Conan's northern "European" climes, Conan himself was a well traveled man of the world and came to see through most prejudices (the racial overtones of stories like The Vale of Lost Women aside). The greatest offense in Conan's eyes was the soft civilized man and/or the dabbler in magic. If your orientation allowed for good drink and lusty battle I'm sure Conan would not have stood for any closet homophobia. Yes and no: attitudes towards homosexuality appear to vary with different cultural eras, and while homosexual practice was much more widely accepted in the classical and Hellenic eras than it is today, it it isn't even acknowledged at all in the Homeric world (the sexual relationship between Achilles & Patroclus isn't in Homer and appears to be a Classical reinterpretation) or the Viking - this seems to be characteristic of "heroic" cultures in general. I think your point holds, though, because Howard's Hyperborean World with its wide variety of civilisations interacting seems to have much more in common with the Hellenic than with the Homeric era, so logically you'd expect homosexuality to be similarly accepted. Conan, as a northern barbarian, might or might not have shared this attitude as a young man, but after all his years of wandering around the various nations of Howard's world, he most likely would have thought of it as a normal thing that some people did.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 17, 2015 21:09:19 GMT -5
I doubt Howard ever thought about the subject, as it wasn't really an accepted one in 1930s Texas... but in our modern comics, there was a Valusian warrior and close aid to Kull who was homosexual. He was even the key to defeating a man-seducing mermaid type of creature. (Kull was also immune to her power, so make of that what you will!)
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Post by berkley on Jan 17, 2015 22:00:23 GMT -5
If the Cimmerians are supposed to be proto-Celts, one opportunity I think Howard and modern Conan writers have missed out on would be the creation of a really formidable female Cimmerian warrior, as women warriors and leaders are known to have been not uncommon amongst the Celtic peoples and in fact the Celts and the Germans were both known in ancient times for the high status accorded to women in general, especially compared to the very patriarchal Greeks and Romans.
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