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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 17:04:23 GMT -5
My thought is that they started for kids in the 50's and 60's.... Yeah, I pretty much blame the comics code in 1954 for the crappy state of American comics as compared to their Japanese or European counterparts. They were basically artistically hamstrung and their reliance on one kid-friendly genre is a result of that. Yeah, that's why I don't buy the "Superheroes are just the best genre for comics and everybody always loved them the best" argument. The superhero dominance is decades in the making and involved a lot of corporate politics and maneuvering before the other genres trickled out of the scene for various reasons, the comics code being the main one. Marvel and DC neatly completely dominated the marketshare of an entire industry for a while, and they streamlined their output. They stopped the cartoon books, the horror books, the war books, the romance books. Not because nobody liked them, but because they weren't in that shared universe they wanted to promote. Now, of course their A list superhero titles were most likely their best sellers, but imagine if Universal Pictures decided to only release Fast & Furious movies because they were the most profitable for them. At first it might work out, more money dedicated to their main franchise, less wasted on lower profit margin crap. But eventually, when people get tired of watching Fast & Furious movies, they'll do something else. Except for a handful, who will likely watch EVERY Fast & Furious movie no matter what. At this point you can say "The only people watching movies anymore seem to really like Fast & Furious, so the smart thing to do would be cater to them" How long until that doesn't work anymore? |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jun 5, 2015 18:25:31 GMT -5
Until they stop becoming profitable. Until then they're here to stay. Marvel and DC don't make entertainment to make the world a better place of give people heroes, albeit fictional, and their being real heroes in real life, they do it to put money in their pockets. And even if only 50% of comic readers want super hero comics, if they're shelling out even 60% of the printed/digital comic output then they'll keep giving them what their buying and curtail everything else that's less profitable.
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Post by marvelmaniac on Jun 5, 2015 18:37:24 GMT -5
Everything comes and goes in cycles.
People lost interest in Super Heroes after WW2 and Westerns, Humor, Romance became the popular Genre, then came Horror in the early 50's and look what happened in "56", so that trend may happen all over again and then the Super Heroes will again emerge as the most popular genre.
Everything that was once outdated and has/had run its course and out of style comes back and then it becomes "retro" and popular.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 5, 2015 18:46:42 GMT -5
Yeah, that's true, but this is an absurdly long cycle.
Y'know it definitely occurs to me that the Marvel Silver Age superhero comics were a way to back-door crime and horror in kid friendly, code approved packaging.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 19:36:17 GMT -5
Everything comes and goes in cycles. People lost interest in Super Heroes after WW2 and Westerns, Humor, Romance became the popular Genre, then came Horror in the early 50's and look what happened in "56", so that trend may happen all over again and then the Super Heroes will again emerge as the most popular genre. Everything that was once outdated and has/had run its course and out of style comes back and then it becomes "retro" and popular. I think a major change is now kids aren't the driving force in comics anymore. What this means, I don't know. But I think if/when superheroes cease to dominate the market there may not really be a dominant genre. I don't think Europe or Japan really have dominant genres in their comics. Personally, I think I see more period fantasy from Europe and more mech robot stuff from Japan, but I'm no expert in either, my sample size is small, and even if it weren't we may not be exposed to anime and Euro comics in the same variety and ratio that they are, so without living there (or I guess being fluent in Japanese and spending a lot of time on their manga message boards) there's really no way to tell. But I don't think they have a dominant genre. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 23:24:28 GMT -5
My thought is that they started for kids in the 50's and 60's. Adults read them but that grew to prominence in the 70's. The 80's saw a darker tone, the 90's saw overload and maybe things would have crashed but movies and TV have been pumping out stuff now for years, getting better and better. It is a North American culture thing. It is art. It is a part of heritage. The other "things" you mentioned were more so sub genres that were hot. Much like certain heroes and titles get hot. I really doubt they will ever go away. To be fair though, when was the last time a "new superhero" was created that blew up the market? Spawn? Even he is getting older and older and eventually we may need to see a new "hero" emerge to keep the genre going but until then, I think the movies are keeping the classics alive. Heck, WE are keeping them alive, by passing the passion on to our kids or relatives. Superheroes will never die. It is the ultimate fantasy and while other genres may have their moments in the sun (like zombies currently), the superhero will always remain strong because it is America's original art form. Deadpool and Harley Quinn are the last two breakout characters, moreso than Spawn. Both started in villainous roles and are more anti-heroes and somewhat satirical takes on comic heroes. The new Ms. Marvel has the potential to grow into prominence as well, and has had a budding growing fanbase since she debuted a little over a year ago, plus national media attention. Old characters are being reinvented in ways too which has seen spikes in their exposure, popularity and market growth-such as the development of the Carol Corps after the DeConnick revitalization of Carol Danvers and her assumption of the Captain Marvel mantle. Miles Morales has also seen a pretty high profile and surge into public consciousness in recent years. While certainly not as prolific as the Silver and Bronze ages, the past few years have started to see the emergence of some new characters that seem to be positioned to have a long life in the public eye after a long long period where such fields lay fallow. -M |
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Post by berkley on Jun 6, 2015 3:36:13 GMT -5
The superhero genre is a part of American culture so I think it'll stay around as long as America does. Whether it will be as important as it is at the moment, I don't know - 40 years ago, I wouldn't have predicted Westerns would fade in popularity the way they have done.
My guess is that it will continue to dominate American comics for the foreseeable future, but that the prominence it currently has in American pop culture in general won't last as long. I don't think that the superhero comics of today will inspire future generations of writers, film-makers, etc in the same way the comics of the past did, though the success of superhero-based movies will obviously have some momentum of its own.
That could be just my old guy's prejudice, though - Tim Burton's Batman, which you could argue was the first of the modern wave of superhero blockbusters, was, what, 25 years ago? That's a full generation and superhero movies are bigger than ever.
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Post by marvelmaniac on Jun 6, 2015 7:36:35 GMT -5
Everything comes and goes in cycles. People lost interest in Super Heroes after WW2 and Westerns, Humor, Romance became the popular Genre, then came Horror in the early 50's and look what happened in "56", so that trend may happen all over again and then the Super Heroes will again emerge as the most popular genre. Everything that was once outdated and has/had run its course and out of style comes back and then it becomes "retro" and popular. I think a major change is now kids aren't the driving force in comics anymore. What this means, I don't know. But I think if/when superheroes cease to dominate the market there may not really be a dominant genre. I don't think Europe or Japan really have dominant genres in their comics. Personally, I think I see more period fantasy from Europe and more mech robot stuff from Japan, but I'm no expert in either, my sample size is small, and even if it weren't we may not be exposed to anime and Euro comics in the same variety and ratio that they are, so without living there (or I guess being fluent in Japanese and spending a lot of time on their manga message boards) there's really no way to tell. But I don't think they have a dominant genre. Japan has always been into "mech robot" stuff. Godzilla could be classified as such but in the 60's I grew up watching Astro Boy and Ultra Man, both from Japan, then came Power Rangers. Because of the Movies my younger Grandsons (3 of them that just turned 6, twins and their cousin)are always wearing Superhero Clothing...Underwear, socks, shirts, bedsheets and blankets and use their old Marvel Halloween costumes to play Superhero's. They also buy and build Marvel and DC Lego's that come out from the movies. They know nothing about comic books but the Marvel characters are very popular with them(mostly Avengers...Thor, Hulk, Iron Man and Cap) so even though things do go in cycles I do not see the superheroes going away any time soon, just the way they are presented to the public may change, comic books out, movies, video games and related product in. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Jun 6, 2015 8:03:39 GMT -5
Everything comes and goes in cycles. People lost interest in Super Heroes after WW2 and Westerns, Humor, Romance became the popular Genre, then came Horror in the early 50's and look what happened in "56", so that trend may happen all over again and then the Super Heroes will again emerge as the most popular genre. Everything that was once outdated and has/had run its course and out of style comes back and then it becomes "retro" and popular. I think a major change is now kids aren't the driving force in comics anymore. What this means, I don't know. But I think if/when superheroes cease to dominate the market there may not really be a dominant genre. I don't think Europe or Japan really have dominant genres in their comics. I can't really speak to Japan, but in Europe, it's kid's stuff and all-ages comics that are the biggest consistant sellers. Disney characters, in particular, are huge, but also stuff like Tin Tin, Asterix, etc. There is actually a more thriving market for all-ages material in Europe without superheroes than there is in the US with its superheroes, and Disney's true sales forces in comics aren't their Marvel superheroes but Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse. Carl Barks and Don Rosa are far more important to Disney's overall comic plans than Brian Bendis or Jonathan Hickman. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2015 13:48:22 GMT -5
That's more a target demographic than a genre though. "Kid stuff" could be fantasy, historical, horror, humor, ect. Marvel comics were all kid stuff back when they had a wealth of variety in their offerings.
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