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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 12, 2019 10:00:53 GMT -5
I like some Ditko stuff (his Micronauts stuff pictured not so much), and others are free to liek or dislike his work as they choose, but I never conflate "I like" to mean it's high quality material nor "I dislike" with it's not quality, as a lot of people are wont to do. I firmly believe the conflating of personal tastes with objective standards of quality is a textbook case of hubris, and reading commentary or criticism by those who do tells you very little about the quality of the material they are discussing and too much about their personal tastes in such materials. -M Again, my understanding of this thread is that it is an opportunity to express opinions, particularly those that are likely to be unpopular with some (or many) here, without fear of being unduly taken to task for simply having an opinion someone else might not share. I see it as similar to having debates about who is the greatest quarterback of all time or such. I think we all recognize the fun in friendly debates; a lot of us do it all the time in real-life with our pals. The CCF is the first time in my life that I've participated in an Internet forum/board. I've historically avoided them because I can't be bothered to get into what I consider to be pointless debates regarding opinions. CCF looked like a very fun place where people are talking about classic comics because we all love them for different reasons. And I like this thread in particular because it is designed for us to have fun debates; it's not "There, This is What Objective Standards Say!" after all. I was expressing my opinion that Ditko's faces have bugged me as a reader my entire life. There are loads of other aspects of his art that I appreciate and in fact I own several Ditko tomes ( Ditko Unleashed!, The Art of Ditko, those terrific Gorgo and Konga collections, some of those Fantagraphics archives, and the first Spider-Man omni). But, frankly, I shouldn't have to "validate" myself by reassuring others that I appreciate or "get" Ditko. Nor should anyone be taken to task for not employing "objective standards of taste" on an opinion thread or be accused of hubris. Others here responded to my Ditko post with interesting, engaging, and friendly expressions of their take on Ditko. It's great to make a case for why one thinks Ditko's faces are good and I could even be inspired to reconsider that aspect of his work. But there's no fun or constructive dialogue going on when someone tells me that since I don't like Ditko's faces I surely must not like the art of Shuster, Sprang, or Eisner or school me on how to (sniff, sniff) properly evaluate art. It is not in the spirit of this forum as I understand it. But, again, I'm relatively new here so maybe I'm misinformed or naive. At any rate, I've now spent far too much of my time and energy regarding a simple little post about, of all things, Steve Ditko's faces. Egad. I've got real problems in my life; this place is my distraction from them. I really like this forum a lot and there are loads of great and interesting posts made by great and interesting folks all the time. I'm looking forward to continued classic comic book camaraderie! Well said, MS! Keep on keeping on, this is INDEED a friendly place where your opinion is valued. Since I've been on this forum, I've gotten into various discussions about artists, writers, editors and ultimately it's all opinion. At the end of the day, if an artists work is not my cup of tea, so be it.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 16, 2019 17:48:38 GMT -5
I have no respect nor like any animated versions of comic book or movies. I think they pale in comparison.
There I said it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 18:18:28 GMT -5
Wow, so you don't like something such as Batman: The Animated Series?!
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 9,603
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Post by Confessor on Feb 16, 2019 18:31:13 GMT -5
I agree with Icctrombone. I have no interest in cartoons based on comic books either. I have a vague nostalgic attachment to the 60s Spider-Man cartoon because it was on British TV a lot when I was a kid -- and, let's face it, that's one damn catchy theme tune! But outside of that, I've never watched one that wasn't terrible. I actually watched some of Batman: The Animated Series on YouTube a year or two ago, after seeing how folks around here rave about it. I thought it was dire.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 18:44:33 GMT -5
Okay, everyone's entitled to a view, but I'm not inviting either of you to any more of my parties.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 16, 2019 18:44:41 GMT -5
Wow, so you don't like something such as Batman: The Animated Series?! It was okay but couldn't compare to the art or writing of the Batman Comic book.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 19:38:45 GMT -5
Wow, so you don't like something such as Batman: The Animated Series?! It was okay but couldn't compare to the art or writing of the Batman Comic book. This is akin to sacrilege. Apologise to me now.
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Post by berkley on Feb 16, 2019 23:03:07 GMT -5
I have no respect nor like any animated versions of comic book or movies. I think they pale in comparison. There I said it. I'm pretty much in the same boat. Event the Bruce Timm animation, which everyone seems to like so much, is a turn-off for me: I hate those exaggerated upper bodies and little skinny legs on the male heroes, especially in contrast to the uniformly slender females, who end up looking almost creepily childlike next to those hulking males.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 7:15:03 GMT -5
That is a valid point (the exaggerated upper bodies and slender females). It's one reason I hated the 2002 Masters of the Universe cartoon. Beast Man looked absurd: I much prefer this:
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Post by Trevor on Feb 17, 2019 11:11:28 GMT -5
I love my mainstream superhero books, but the ceiling on the quality of stuff from the big two is WAY below that of independent fare.
There. I said it.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 17, 2019 12:24:55 GMT -5
I understand that the independent books might be better but I don't want to gamble on buying new books at 4 dollars a pop.
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Post by beccabear67 on Feb 17, 2019 14:37:19 GMT -5
On animation: I watched some fairly recent Guardians Of the Galaxy tv cartoons and liked them fine, but I really enjoyed the Justice League shorts; one had Solomon Grundy at their Christmas party, and in another they were some kind of virtual copies who did the right thing even though it would cause them disappear with nobody knowing of their heroism. I also watched some of the pastel colored Super Hero Girls at their super high school (corny I know) and made it all the way through each story, and I love the super-deformed Teen Titans Go most of the time. Never got into the Batman or X-Men cartoons of awhile ago however, tried and just didn't like. I'd much rather watch something crazy like Flapjack or Chowder, or even We Bare Bears.
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Post by tarkintino on Feb 17, 2019 14:56:18 GMT -5
I have no respect nor like any animated versions of comic book or movies. I think they pale in comparison. There I said it. I'll tell you this: the Warner Brothers / "Timmverse" DC cartoons were outclassing the DC comics published at the same time, and actually respected a lot of Golden - Bronze Age characters & continuity, while weaving that into stories that took full advantage of what made characters work in the first place. That cannot be said of early 1990s - early 2000s DC comics, which were mishandled by some of the most creatively challenged / muddle-minded people ever to darken the doors of comic publishers. There. I said it.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 17, 2019 16:12:08 GMT -5
It's a shame that those animated features were better. Comics should always be better.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Feb 17, 2019 17:43:27 GMT -5
I find the 90s X-Men cartoon to have aged pretty badly, and not just because Gambit and Jubilee are so 90s it hurts. The animation and voice acting is just a step below what I've come to expect from superhero cartoons.
The Batman Animated Series from the early to mid-90s on the other hand, is a work of art. Nothing like it had been done for American television before then. It was an almost perfect fusion of all eras of Batman. It had atmosphere and gravitas, but was not afraid to have episodes that were purely fun in addition to its emmy-winning stories. It has a timeless look thanks to its art-deco art-style. It had a series bible that was followed to the letter. It was also one of the first cartoons to use voice-acting similar to regular acting instead of old-school cartoon acting. It set a completely new standard for what animation could could do and without it many other shows with true depth like Gargoyles and Avatar the Last Airbender might well never have existed. It was an incredibly rare combination of passion and talent which heavily influenced the comics, most notably by creating Harley Quinn, but in other ways as well.
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