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Post by badwolf on Jun 13, 2019 16:16:16 GMT -5
I loved Morrison's Batman. Some of Snyder's stuff is good, others not so much.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 13, 2019 23:00:21 GMT -5
Nah, I voted for Jason Todd to die, and I am a big Starlin fan, but I agree with Slam, Starlin's Batman run wasn't very good and he was ill suited to the book at the time. This was a period when he was looking at doing more prose and stepping away from the traditional grooves he worked in, but some of the stuff he stepped into in its stead didn't fit his sensibilities well. He was also seemingly obsessed with serial killers and slashers at this time as they featured in both his Batman run and in his prose work, I didn't mind the Cult so much, but his run on the main title rarely rose to the level of mediocrity and mostly wallowed in dreck. -M Yeah, very much a product of it's time in the worst way. Edgy for the sake of being edgy and completely facile. I'm not even a Batman guy and I think Starlin's is the worst Batman run I've ever read. (Which is weird because I really like most of his other stuff.)
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Jun 14, 2019 3:11:28 GMT -5
Snyder was ok when he was dealing with smaller, 1-off issues. But when dealing with big events he was awful. Court of Owls was an inferior rip-off of what Morrison had done not long before. Death of the Family was just a terrible story that also needlessly made explicit what had been implicit for decades and should never have been said out loud. And his new pet characters Harper Row and Duke Snyder were basically wastes of space.
I did really like Batman Eternal though when Harper Row wasn't in it.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 14, 2019 3:41:39 GMT -5
Snyder was ok when he was dealing with smaller, 1-off issues. But when dealing with big events he was awful. Court of Owls was an inferior rip-off of what Morrison had done not long before. I don't quite see it. Morrison and Snyder both dealt with secret societies, but Snyder was thematically dealing with "official" and "unofficial" histories - It was rooted in "Gotham City as a character." Morrison's stuff was a lot more personal and psychological - The setting reflected Batman's psychology, it wasn't really a narrative element unto itself. Or to put it another way, in Court of Owls the threat was impersonal and external, everything in Morrison's run was the opposite of that. (I liked them both quite a bit!)
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Jun 14, 2019 7:19:49 GMT -5
If you thought the Court of Owls was supposed to be impersonal I take that as another sign that it failed. The big villain was a friend of Bruce' who was supposed to be Bruce's long-lost brother.
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Post by badwolf on Jun 14, 2019 9:00:44 GMT -5
Snyder was ok when he was dealing with smaller, 1-off issues. But when dealing with big events he was awful. Court of Owls was an inferior rip-off of what Morrison had done not long before. I thought it was a rip-off of Hush. The big twist is literally exactly the same.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Jun 14, 2019 9:20:24 GMT -5
Snyder was ok when he was dealing with smaller, 1-off issues. But when dealing with big events he was awful. Court of Owls was an inferior rip-off of what Morrison had done not long before. I thought it was a rip-off of Hush. The big twist is literally exactly the same. That too. The biggest problem with Snyder was that he didn't have a single original idea, so whenever he wrote a big event it was a boring case of 'been there, done that better before,' and his new characters were generic rip-offs of better characters.
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Post by badwolf on Jun 14, 2019 9:49:29 GMT -5
I thought it was a rip-off of Hush. The big twist is literally exactly the same. That too. The biggest problem with Snyder was that he didn't have a single original idea, so whenever he wrote a big event it was a boring case of 'been there, done that better before,' and his new characters were generic rip-offs of better characters. I meant to mention that I did love The Black Mirror. It got my expectations so high that I thought Court of Owls would be a sure thing.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 14, 2019 10:58:40 GMT -5
If you thought the Court of Owls was supposed to be impersonal I take that as another sign that it failed. The big villain was a friend of Bruce' who was supposed to be Bruce's long-lost brother. Huh. I don't remember that. Maybe I didn't read the end. I actually bought all the issues in the crappy crossover with Nightwing and Batgirl and etc. but I mighta given up after that. I still contend the FIRST six issues are really good, rooted in urban legends and architecture (things that are generally outside the purview of mainstream comics) combined with some brilliant formal storytelling. I don't really remember what happened in the second part of the story so much. That is true.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 16, 2019 7:52:52 GMT -5
If you thought the Court of Owls was supposed to be impersonal I take that as another sign that it failed. The big villain was a friend of Bruce' who was supposed to be Bruce's long-lost brother. Which is the kind of story that would pop up in the "old days," the kind that modern fans deride as unrealistic and stupid. Sometimes they were called "Imaginary Stories."
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 16, 2019 8:09:36 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2019 12:30:16 GMT -5
IDW needs to do a Godzilla VS Zombies series.
Has the Big G ever fought zombies?
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jun 16, 2019 12:44:48 GMT -5
Has the Big G ever fought zombies? Don't think so, but he has met Bambi:
I think any confrontation with zombies turn out about the same...
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 16, 2019 16:31:48 GMT -5
I find the recent Batman talk interesting. Batman is my favorite DC character, but I think it can be argued that he's never had a really long run that stands the test of time, which is kinda astonishing. Frank Miller's 80's stuff is fantastic of course, but it amounts to eight issues. As much as I love what Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams did for Batman in the 70's, their work together is surprisingly sparse and after having read all of it, and I hate to admit it, I was somewhat underwhelmed. I loved the concepts, but I think its importance has more to do with the revolutionary Adams art and rescuing Batman from camp than anything else.
Just limiting it to DC, has there ever been a period of comparable length where Batman was as "good" as the George Perez Wonder Woman or the Wolfman/Perez Titans? The only run that I'm aware of that hits the two to three year mark of greatness is the Breyfogle/Grant run, but since I've only read one or two issues of that run, I can't fairly judge. And of course this is just limiting it to the mainstream, "A-list" stuff.
If we extend it to Marvel, and limit it to solo characters, things look bleaker. Spider-Man, one of Batman's few rivals in popularity, had a period from 1962 till 1986 that's arguable all classic. The Hulk had a very strong period from 1970 till 1980 and again with Peter David's classic run circa 1987-1996. Captain America was solid all throughout the 60's with Lee/Kirby/Steranko and later with the Englehart/DeMatties/Zeck/Gruenwald years. Kirby's Thor was genius for a solid 5 years in the 60's and later with Simonson's classic run. I'll stop there.
Obviously it's all subjective, but the consensus seems to be that all that stuff is "classic" and worthy of living on forever in print. It seems to me that Batman's greatness owes more to the strength of his concept, a select few really important stories, and the accumulation of reputation over time. If I was forced to choose one really long period of Batman from any medium, I'd choose Batman: The Animated Series in a heartbeat and without hesitation.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2019 18:35:35 GMT -5
IDW needs to do a Godzilla VS Zombies series. Has the Big G ever fought zombies? If you go to YouTube there are over a dozen or more videos and I don't think there is a comic book ever made? ... If someone here find one ... I would not be surprised if some company did that.
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