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Post by badwolf on Oct 17, 2019 21:13:07 GMT -5
I like all of those artists, but Gene is #1 for me.
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Post by berkley on Oct 18, 2019 1:05:17 GMT -5
The other thing about Colan's Dr. Strange work is how different his two runs were, in spite of being teamed with the same inker, Tom Palmer. I used to think it was because of the lower page count in the 70s, down to just 17 pages per issue from 20 or 21 in the 60s: with so few pages to work with, I reasoned, he must not have had the space to be as inventive with panel layouts as he'd been in the 60s.
But then a few years ago I read somewhere that it was actually an editorial directive handed down from on high, which is a real shame, if true, because as great as his 70s Strange was, I think the freer approach he'd taken in his 60s run on the title would have been a better fit both for the Dr. Strange series and for Englehart's writing of it specifically.
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Post by hondobrode on Oct 20, 2019 1:38:24 GMT -5
Colan / Palmer : top shelf IMO
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 8:13:13 GMT -5
Given the bat has a long history of association with witchcraft and malevolence, I wonder whether Bob Kane considered that prior to creating Batman (or maybe the association with malevolence steered him towards that). Bats aren't evil. Neither are black cats. But as someone who had a voluntary job with Cats Protection once, I know how hard it was to house black cats. Those black cats and bats just can't get any good PR!
And what if a bumblebee had flown through Wayne's open window? Or a frog had jumped in?...
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 9,556
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Post by Confessor on Oct 30, 2019 9:51:12 GMT -5
Given the bat has a long history of association with witchcraft and malevolence, I wonder whether Bob Kane considered that prior to creating Batman (or maybe the association with malevolence steered him towards that). I'm nowhere as knowledgable on these matters as a lot of folks here, but my feeling has always been that, yes, Bob Kane almost certainly had the "evil" or "malevolent" reputation that bats have in his mind when he came up with the basic idea for Batman. And I'm damn certain that Bill Finger had it in mind too, when he changed and modified Kane's basic ideas into the shadowy, nighttime avenger we recognise today as Batman. To quote Bruce Wayne himself in the first published origin of Batman ( Detective Comics #33 from 1939, written by Bill Finger): "Criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot. So my disguise must be able to strike terror into their hearts. I must be a creature of the night, black, terrible..." So, the character of Wayne (and therefore, by extension, Bill Finger and possibly Bob Kane as well) definitely chose the somewhat "spooky" image of the bat...a creature of the night...to instill fear into the hearts of the criminals he hunted. The superstitious and supernatural connotations of being the batman were absolutely deliberate on the part of the character's creators, I believe.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 30, 2019 11:03:15 GMT -5
Well there was this pulp magazine.... and the 1926 silent film version of Mary Roberts Reinhart's The Bat.... Kane admitted to The Bat as well as the Douglas Fairbanks Zorro. The pulp was always contentious. The character was called the Black bat, but did not wear a costume. However, interior illustrations featured a bat costume. In 1939, around the same time that Batman appeared, there wasa revived Black Bat, who wore a costume... There were talks of lawsuits; but, Whitney Ellsworth had worked for the pulp publisher and brokered a deal that kept the parties out of court. Personally, I like this version...
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 30, 2019 11:08:18 GMT -5
Given the bat has a long history of association with witchcraft and malevolence, I wonder whether Bob Kane considered that prior to creating Batman (or maybe the association with malevolence steered him towards that). I'm nowhere as knowledgable on these matters as a lot of folks here, but my feeling has always been that, yes, Bob Kane almost certainly had the "evil" or "malevolent" reputation that bats have in his mind when he came up with the basic idea for Batman. And I'm damn certain that Bill Finger had it in mind too, when he changed and modified Kane's basic ideas into the shadowy, nighttime avenger we recognise today as Batman. To quote Bruce Wayne himself in the first published origin of Batman ( Detective Comics #33 from 1939, written by Bill Finger): "Criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot. So my disguise must be able to strike terror into their hearts. I must be a creature of the night, black, terrible..." So, the character of Wayne (and therefore, by extension, Bill Finger and possibly Bob Kane as well) definitely chose the somewhat "spooky" image of the bat...a creature of the night...to instill fear into the hearts of the criminals he hunted. The superstitious and supernatural connotations of being the batman were absolutely deliberate on the part of the character's creators, I believe. The bat as a creature associated with mystery, darkness, evil, but also crimefighting was undoubtedly in Kane's and Finger's minds as they created Batman. Pulp heroes like the Black Bat, Mary Roberts Rinehart's story and play "The Bat," and of course, the many vampire movies of the '30's, almost all of which included a bat on the poster. In the "great minds" category... Sorry, Cody, was interrupted by a phone call before I could post, and didn't refresh, so didn't see your excellent post.
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Post by beccabear67 on Oct 30, 2019 11:36:28 GMT -5
I did have a bat fly into the house one summer evening, so I guess that first Batman story has one true to life element I can attest to, though at first it was just this sudden blur that squeaked and I wondered what it was. It flapped around and around and finally managed to find an open door. I had opened everything up i could, was worried it'd smash into something, most of all myself. "Don't call me squeaky!" They're really cute little things I think, but don't touch them in case they might have rabies; a young guy died here recently from having made contact with such a fuzzy little squeaker and not getting any attention afterwards. www.timescolonist.com/news/local/parksville-man-dies-from-rabies-after-contact-with-island-bat-1.23886265We had a totally black cat when I was little, named Spooky. He was a nice cat but he came and went, you couldn't have that situation today I guess. One time we thought he was long gone not having seen him for a couple of years and then he turned up. Inspiration for a heroine, Miss Fury...
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 31, 2019 9:19:33 GMT -5
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 31, 2019 9:46:28 GMT -5
Given the bat has a long history of association with witchcraft and malevolence, I wonder whether Bob Kane considered that prior to creating Batman (or maybe the association with malevolence steered him towards that). I'm nowhere as knowledgable on these matters as a lot of folks here, but my feeling has always been that, yes, Bob Kane almost certainly had the "evil" or "malevolent" reputation that bats have in his mind when he came up with the basic idea for Batman. And I'm damn certain that Bill Finger had it in mind too, when he changed and modified Kane's basic ideas into the shadowy, nighttime avenger we recognise today as Batman. To quote Bruce Wayne himself in the first published origin of Batman ( Detective Comics #33 from 1939, written by Bill Finger): "Criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot. So my disguise must be able to strike terror into their hearts. I must be a creature of the night, black, terrible..." So, the character of Wayne (and therefore, by extension, Bill Finger and possibly Bob Kane as well) definitely chose the somewhat "spooky" image of the bat...a creature of the night...to instill fear into the hearts of the criminals he hunted. The superstitious and supernatural connotations of being the batman were absolutely deliberate on the part of the character's creators, I believe. Bats have also always been associated with Dracula, whose been around a bit longer than Batman. And depending on the story outside of Stoker's original vampires or Dracula can be anywhere from a literal bat or a bat-human hybrid like Coppola did in his version of Stoker's book. So bats have definitely had a bad rap for a long time due to superstitions and stories associating them with villains or supernatural beings. Also due to the quote you posted, I just realized how cool of a homage Bruce's sentiment to Alfred was in Batman: Mask of the Phantasm when trying to come up with his costume during the flashbacks in the movie.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 10:13:26 GMT -5
They should do a comic where Batman and a batsman go up against Dracula in bat form. The story called be called "Bats". It could end up with the cricketer using his bat to kill Dracula in bat form. Or Batman using the cricketer's bat to kill a bat. I don't know.
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Post by berkley on Oct 31, 2019 11:38:22 GMT -5
Just stumbled on these from February 1936: Any idea who the artist was for this illustration? Virgil Finlay was the name that first popped into my head but on closer inspection I'm not so sure.
As far as Batman goes, yeah, I think Kurt Busiek nailed it in his Batman-inspired vampire character in Astro City: at least part of the bat motif and creepy, wing-spread look of the cape can be traced straight back to Dracula, whether directly or via intermediates such as some of those pictured in this thread.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 31, 2019 12:36:01 GMT -5
You also have the French silent film, Les Vampyres and the Weird Tales cover, possibly inspired by it.......
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 31, 2019 13:09:19 GMT -5
Just stumbled on these from February 1936: Any idea who the artist was for this illustration? Virgil Finlay was the name that first popped into my head but on closer inspection I'm not so sure.
As far as Batman goes, yeah, I think Kurt Busiek nailed it in his Batman-inspired vampire character in Astro City: at least part of the bat motif and creepy, wing-spread look of the cape can be traced straight back to Dracula, whether directly or via intermediates such as some of those pictured in this thread.
Here's a link where you can expand the image: archive.org/details/Bat_Man_by_Lew_Merrill_1936_2002_Reprint/page/n1I couldn't find a signature or initials, though. Couldn't find any site where interior illustrations were attributed (unless you know the artist's name). Agreed that it's not Finlay. Saw no mention of this magazine or illustration here: www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?1084The cover is attributed to prolific pulp cover artist H.J. Ward. www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?367677
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Post by MDG on Oct 31, 2019 13:31:59 GMT -5
And we all know what else H J Ward painted, right?
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