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Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 22, 2017 23:46:24 GMT -5
i agree with RR, Captain and Spike X.
if it’s a slippery slope to Orwellian/sjw double-speak garbage, ala ‘double-plus ungood’, it’s bollocks, and a shrivelled, diseased set of bollocks at that.
however, in the context of the ink, of public transport, the new greeting/announcement is more welcoming. I’d rather hear it than ‘ladies and gentlemen’, since ladies and gentlemen is a hold-over from a very strict class-conscious time, which often sucked for many people not born to upper middle class families.
in a formal/official setting, such as presentation of awards, it’d be dumb-as-rocks, of course.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 23, 2017 1:04:06 GMT -5
Rachel Mcadams is a babe.
There I said it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 3:51:41 GMT -5
Rachel Mcadams is a babe. There I said it. Thanks for the tip ... she has a terrific smile and a bubbling personality ... Check out my new avatar ... just made 5 minutes ago! I'll leave it up until Monday!
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Post by Spike-X on Jul 23, 2017 5:51:20 GMT -5
My daughter is very excited about the new Doctor being a woman, so anyone who doesn't like it can go pound sand.
There, I said it.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 23, 2017 8:32:45 GMT -5
Is it going to cause you harm to hear "Hello everyone" instead of "Ladies and gentlemen"? No. Is it going to help some people feel included who might otherwise not have been? Yes. So what's with the wailing and gnashing of teeth? There, I said it. No, saying "hello everyone" is obviously not going to hurt anyone. Everybody says "hello everyone". However, to pretend that saying "hello, ladies and gentlemen" is someone hurting anyone, to the extent that the expression should not be used, IS extremely detrimental to society as a whole. It enhances the trendy concept that innocuous words are derogatory, and that it's fine to take offence at every little thing in life even when no offence is meant or given. Besides, are there people who would actually feel excluded and discriminated against because a loudspeaker says "dear ladies and gentlemen"? I mean really? I doubt it, but if there are, nurturing that kind of hypersensitivity is not helping our society at all. "Hello, ladies and gentlemen" means "hello everyone". It does not exclude children. It does not exclude working class individuals. It does not exclude footpads. It does not exclude people who don't see themselves as either ladies or gentlemen. It does not exclude Tiamat, who doesn't even view herself as human. Just like saying "merry Christmas" means "happy holidays", without discriminating against non-Christians to whom Christmas is not a religious holiday. In immunology, the hygiene hypothesis has been studied for a few decades. According to this hypothesis, raising individuals in conditions that are too clean, with too little exposure to normal pathogens, leads to hypersensitivity, allergy and auto-immunity. If we now can't even stand such an innocuous greeting as "hello, ladies and gentlemen", then we are dealing with the social equivalent of the hygiene hypothesis, and pretty soon we won't be able to say anything, because any expression will potentially trigger an unwarranted reaction. There! I said it.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 23, 2017 10:07:08 GMT -5
I guess the next step is for the courts to decide if innocuous words are legal or not. I can't believe I typed that.
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Post by Spike-X on Jul 23, 2017 20:32:48 GMT -5
I can't believe how bent out of shape you blokes are getting over a completely innocuous change to an announcement at a bloody train station. There really is nothing more fragile in the world than a middle-aged StraightWhiteDude.
There, I said it.
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Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 23, 2017 22:29:03 GMT -5
I can't believe how more bent out of shape sjws with no effect on the world other than blogs and barely-seen youtube videos get over simple debate, then resort to ad hominem stuff. There really is nothing more fragile in the world than a middle-aged StraightWhiteDude, except for an sjw whom most likely had it all too easy and had to strive for nothing.
there, i said it after many others did.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 23, 2017 22:42:51 GMT -5
"Ladies and gentlemen" is now an offensive expression? As if frowning upon "Merry Christmas" wasn't enough. The world has gone bonkers. There! I said it. For me, it's not the word choice, it's the fact that we allow increasingly small minorities and speciality groups control the narrative of our social and political climate. I don't see 'ladies and Gentlemen' as anything but being as inclusive as possible, by addressing everyone with a respectful term. I guess some people consider themselves without gender? To me, that's a psychological thing, and if you're going that route, you better leave off 'Everyone' too, because that could be triggering to people with Dissociation (formerly known as Multiple Personality Disorder)
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 23, 2017 22:47:37 GMT -5
Is it going to cause you harm to hear "Hello everyone" instead of "Ladies and gentlemen"? No. Is it going to help some people feel included who might otherwise not have been? Yes. So what's with the wailing and gnashing of teeth? There, I said it. No, saying "hello everyone" is obviously not going to hurt anyone. Everybody says "hello everyone". However, to pretend that saying "hello, ladies and gentlemen" is someone hurting anyone, to the extent that the expression should not be used, IS extremely detrimental to society as a whole. It enhances the trendy concept that innocuous words are derogatory, and that it's fine to take offence at every little thing in life even when no offence is meant or given. Besides, are there people who would actually feel excluded and discriminated against because a loudspeaker says "dear ladies and gentlemen"? I mean really? I doubt it, but if there are, nurturing that kind of hypersensitivity is not helping our society at all. "Hello, ladies and gentlemen" means "hello everyone". It does not exclude children. It does not exclude working class individuals. It does not exclude footpads. It does not exclude people who don't see themselves as either ladies or gentlemen. It does not exclude Tiamat, who doesn't even view herself as human. Just like saying "merry Christmas" means "happy holidays", without discriminating against non-Christians to whom Christmas is not a religious holiday. In immunology, the hygiene hypothesis has been studied for a few decades. According to this hypothesis, raising individuals in conditions that are too clean, with too little exposure to normal pathogens, leads to hypersensitivity, allergy and auto-immunity. If we now can't even stand such an innocuous greeting as "hello, ladies and gentlemen", then we are dealing with the social equivalent of the hygiene hypothesis, and pretty soon we won't be able to say anything, because any expression will potentially trigger an unwarranted reaction. There! I said it. I'm a Christian(marginally, I'd probably be more probably designated an Agnostic), but I'm also realist enough to know that whatever it's roots, Christmas has transcended being a religious holiday.. it's now a commerical and societial annual event. I've had plenty of people wish me Happy Hannukah at the time (I've had several Jewish bosses in my life, and my last job was in a town where Judiasm was prevelant enough that most school celebrate both sets of holidays), and haven't been offended in the least. No one is trying to convert you by offering you happiness... much like no one is trying to exclude anyone by an innocuous greeting to get people's attention. If that sort of thing is the biggest problem in your life, or even enough of a blip on your radar to complain about it, than you have a very, very good life indeed, and perhaps need a good hobby... might I suggest comics?
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Post by Spike-X on Jul 24, 2017 3:53:18 GMT -5
For me, it's not the word choice, it's the fact that we allow increasingly small minorities and speciality groups control the narrative of our social and political climate. Umm...okay? I don't see 'ladies and Gentlemen' as anything but being as inclusive as possible, by addressing everyone with a respectful term. Others obviously disagree, hence this completely harmless and very small change that will not affect you in any way. I guess some people consider themselves without gender? Yes. To me, that's a psychological thing, and if you're going that route, you better leave off 'Everyone' too, because that could be triggering to people with Dissociation (formerly known as Multiple Personality Disorder) Umm...okay?
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 24, 2017 7:00:56 GMT -5
@ Spike (Not quoting because big quote trees are bad):
It's certainly true that such a change doesn't effect me, or anyone else, it's the principal of the thing.
It's getting way off topic and probably isn't a great thing to discuss right now, but IMO, claiming one is without gender is just like claiming one doesn't have arms by sticking them inside your shirt... it's a biological thing. I am 100% for people doing whatever they want to do in life, I'd much, much, much rather people focus on making it so you don't 'feel' like a boy or 'feel' like a girl, you just feel like a person, rather than make minute, divisive changes to everyday venacular that are, really meaningless. TBH, I feel like alot of the trans issues we are having right now are in the long run going to set back equality... why make things equal when you can just swap if you're not happy?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2017 7:35:34 GMT -5
@ Spike (Not quoting because big quote trees are bad): It's certainly true that such a change doesn't effect me, or anyone else, it's the principal of the thing. It's getting way off topic and probably isn't a great thing to discuss right now, but IMO, claiming one is without gender is just like claiming one doesn't have arms by sticking them inside your shirt... it's a biological thing. I am 100% for people doing whatever they want to do in life, I'd much, much, much rather people focus on making it so you don't 'feel' like a boy or 'feel' like a girl, you just feel like a person, rather than make minute, divisive changes to everyday venacular that are, really meaningless. TBH, I feel like alot of the trans issues we are having right now are in the long run going to set back equality... why make things equal when you can just swap if you're not happy? Gender is not biological, it is sociological. Sex is biological-one is born biologically male or female except in rare cases of hermaphrodites. Gender is the roles a society associates with a sex i.e. an interpretation of what it means to be male or female ina given society. Those can be accepted or rejected and change based on culture and time. Sex does not necessarily equal gender. Even if something is biological, we as a society have accepted making changes to our biology through medicine and technology for the most part too, so we can accept or reject our biology too. -M
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jul 24, 2017 8:13:36 GMT -5
Society seems to be increasingly in favor of outrage over context.
There is said it.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 24, 2017 11:40:45 GMT -5
Gender is not biological, it is sociological. Sex is biological-one is born biologically male or female except in rare cases of hermaphrodites. Gender is the roles a society associates with a sex i.e. an interpretation of what it means to be male or female ina given society. That is correct, although in a society where we have been insisting for the past forty years that men and women have the same potential, the same dreams, the same ambitions, as well as being equally entitled to the same jobs and the same responsibilities, any distinction between men and women that does not concern biological sex strikes me as moot. Or at least quaint, a cultural echo from less egalitarian times. wildfire2099 couldn't express my opinion on the issue better:
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