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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 0:13:40 GMT -5
Digital numbers aren't calculated in the numbers. I've totally forgot about this hondobrode and I did not think clearly earlier on this thread because 75% of my comic reading is from digitals and that's plays a big part of the comic books sales here in the USA. |
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Post by Bronze Age Brian on Apr 14, 2016 0:35:54 GMT -5
Yes, because of the variant covers that made a lot of customers that I know of want all of them and having said that it's forcing the buyer to re-prioritize his/her budget and therefore it's will hurt the comic industry of titles being canceled and all. Because I'm nearing 60 and I'm thinking of stopping buying comic books altogether and I'm thinking of terminating my account here in a year or two and saying goodbye to all of you for good. I think of the variant cover frenzy as more of a niche market, I'd hate to be one of those people that needs every cover or else I'd be broke. Many of these rare variants are worth more than my most valuable classics. It's crazy. And I just want to say Mecha, I went through a rough period over a year ago after I turned 40. Stopped buying/reading comics, deleted my account here, sold a good chunk of my collection, the works. But after a while, I really missed it. Comics made a big impact on my younger days, and the nostalgia factor is huge. I realized that comics will always be a part of me. And I love the damned things. And guess what? I'm willing to bet everyone on this forum has that same exact feeling. We're all in this together my friend. So please before you or anyone else hits that delete button, don't make the same mistake as I did. Go on a hiatus, or just take a step back from the hobby for a bit. Everyone gets burned out, even doing things they love. But it will come back, that I can almost guarantee. Don't miss out when that happens.  |
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Post by Batflunkie on Apr 14, 2016 7:54:01 GMT -5
I'm still pissed over Valiant's retailer incentive for their Legends of the Geomancer mini that was offered concurrently with the release of the Book of Death mini. They explicitly stated that LoG wasn't going to be offered digitally and for retailers to acquire a certain number of copies of each issue of LoG, they had to order a certain amount of BoD to qualify. It's ridiculous, it's forcing me into a collector hunt that I want no part of just to read this story when I am more than willing to pay for any digital copies of the mini. It's ostracizing a certain portion of your readership for sake of the bottom line. Back when I used to be a part of the Valiantfans forum, a large number of the memberbase was pretty pissed off at that, even the ones that defended the company tooth and nail every chance they got The only thing that could possibly rectify that in my mind is if they bundled LOTG with the Book Of Death hardcover |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 14, 2016 18:49:46 GMT -5
Digital numbers aren't calculated in the numbers. There may be a slight market correction, but I don't see a crash coming. The speculators aren't nearly the force they used to be IMO. I've heard my whole life comics were going away, along with newspapers... Yeah, I think that's true. Back in the late '70s there was a real chance that comics would go away for good. Now I really don't see that as a possibility in the next 25 years. (There'll be a smaller market, sure, and maybe mostly digital...) but they'll still be around. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 14, 2016 19:38:09 GMT -5
I'd say no. All of my local LCS' are thriving. And it's not due to the movies or just the big two companies either. Independent comics and trades are hot right now. The only thing that I think could cause a "crash", at least for an LCS, is the advent of digital. Digital has peaked, unless something changes (like price point)... IIRC, most analysts say that sales are stable there (most of the early growth was attributed to people re-buying stuff they had in paper). I think it's very possible the monthly book model could end, and we could see all trades at some point. The drastic drop off after first issues, combined with the crazy event sales tell me the majority of buyers are collectors hoping to hit the next Walking Dead #1 (or perhaps worried they'll never get it and grabbing it just in case). The amount of peoples' monthly pulls are dropping it seems, while trades are holding steady or growing. |
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Post by hondobrode on Apr 15, 2016 20:46:24 GMT -5
Readers, not collectors, want a complete story.
The market, for whatever reason, is not going to go away.
I've always said that publishers should give lotto tickets out to win the original art, even if it's a page, from that issue.
It would sell more copies, guaranteed.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 23:00:49 GMT -5
Readers, not collectors, want a complete story. The market, for whatever reason, is not going to go away. I've always said that publishers should give lotto tickets out to win the original art, even if it's a page, from that issue. It would sell more copies, guaranteed. DC tried something like that with hidden original sketch covers inside polybag issues recently, but couldn't advertise it or announce it because to do so would violate gambling/lottery/raffle laws in some states. -M |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 23:31:34 GMT -5
Some numbers via a Bleeding Cool article on first quarter sales for 2016... BC storysales of individual issues are down 10% vs. this time last year for units, but trades/graphic novels are up, however the net is still a 7.5% drop in units moved from this time last year. dollars are marginally up from this time last year, but a) there are more shops and b) cover prices are on average higher than they were at this time last year and c) if trades sales are up they have a higher msrp bringing up the average unit price-however taking a, b, and c into account, each store is moving less than it did last year at this time and generating less revenue (more stores to divide the pie by means smaller pieces for everyone). What growth there is comes from new markets not expanding existing markets-digital has plateaued and the only growth comes form new countries it is made available in, existing print markets are shrinking but the success of Walking Dead and Saga has opened up new outlets for print that were previously unavailable. Some publishers, such as BOOM have scaled back their print line considerably, cancelling projects that had been greenlit previously before they went into production. Creators who were affected who shopped for other publishers after the projects were cancelled had a hard time finding takers and most didn't, indicating there is a very conservative risk attitude for new projects as print stagnates a bit in its traditional markets. Granted it's only first quarter, but after a year of positive growth in 2015, 2016 seems to be a year of regression and market corrections. Trends and indicators don't look like the trend will change as the year progresses (early returns on Rebirth pre-orders and estimates do not seem to show any change in the regression, so don't look for it to be a panacea for the slow sales we are seeing so far this year). Not a crash, but a slow stagnation , loss of growth, and in some cases a regression in sales after a year of growth. -M |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 16, 2016 6:18:29 GMT -5
Yes, because of the variant covers that made a lot of customers that I know of want all of them and having said that it's forcing the buyer to re-prioritize his/her budget and therefore it's will hurt the comic industry of titles being canceled and all. Because I'm nearing 60 and I'm thinking of stopping buying comic books altogether and I'm thinking of terminating my account here in a year or two and saying goodbye to all of you for good. Overreact Much? Why terminate your account here? Anyway, I am okay if comics fold altogether. I have enough of them to satisfy me until I pass away and the new stories being told are not so great. I have so many genres that I am just discovering ( Cerebus, Yojimbo). |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 16, 2016 6:23:45 GMT -5
Comic sales are no longer about what the end customer orders, it's about what the retailers order. Diamond charts etc. reflect orders, not sales to end customers. The current bubble will last only as long as retailers have the confidence to order enough to meet minimum sales thresholds for variants or additional discounts on the orders that they currently do. If actual end customer sales were taken into account, sales numbers would be much, much lower already. Secret Wars and Convergence (not variant covers) and the poor initial response to the offerings which came afterwards from DC and Marvel has shaken that retailer confidence. How well Rebirth does doesn't rest in the hands of end customers, but in the hands of retailers who ace the orders and there has been a lot of skepticism and reluctance to order big on these that I have seen from retailers who choose to talk about it. The Big 2 direct market sales pol is a zero sum gain right now in terms of end customers. If something increases in sales, something elsewhere is decreasing. People trying new Rebirth titles are likely dropping other titles they tried recently and were less impressed with rather than just adding new titles to what they are already buying. Again revenue wise, the market is just reaching the levels it was at 20 years ago-but the products cost 4-5 times what they did 20 twenty years ago to generate the same revenue-that means they are selling far fewer units to generate that same revenue-4-5 times fewer or more when you consider that the revenues also includes toys, trades, and other things that were not a significant part of the marketplace 20 years ago that all now contribute to the revenue pool that has yet to exceed what it was 20 years ago. The prelude to a crash is a peak, and there is no peak. There isn't enough height in the market to make a fall qualify as a crash. At best there might be a stumble, where orders come down to the level of actual end sales -but on the retailer level that means they are spending less and making the same so not necessarily a bad thing for them. For publishers though it means their sales will drop the the level of the end customer purchases that currently exist, not the inflated middle man levels that sales charts reflect currently. That is what is called a market correction, not a crash. And it might be long overdue. If you look at other publishers-Image in particular, their numbers are climbing and it more accurately reflects end customer sales not inflated middle man purchases. So there is growth potential, but only if the product is one that grows audience not switches it form one product within the market to another creating a stagnant customer base. So I don't see a crash so much as a needed market correction and transformation of the market, one that reflects the 21st century, not the 20th century way of producing content and providing entertainment value. -M It's a interesting system they have. I wonder what the Market would look like if the costumer ordered comics direct from the distributor? You would get a true picture of what people like and the numbers would be pure. I'm thinking digital sales are the purist way to see demand. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 16, 2016 6:25:23 GMT -5
Hell, when I mention to non-fans what I do, 9 times out of ten the reaction is "They still make comic books?" Cei-U! I summon the punchline! This makes me sad.  |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,489
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Post by shaxper on Apr 16, 2016 8:32:16 GMT -5
I don't have the impression that comics ever came back. They are not visible to mainstream culture, and Marvel and DC continue to print them more as movie promotion than for anything else.
And, in a way, I think that's a good thing. It's allowing other smaller publishers to be the innovators that are capturing attention. And, when you're only competing for space on direct market shelves, it's a lot easier to get attention as well.
So we're seeing unprecedented growth and exposure for non big two titles. If I didn't feel cover prices were absurd right now, I'd find this an exciting time to be in comics.
Maybe Marvel and DC are headed for a crash once the movies dry out, but not the industry as a whole. Valiant, Image, IDW, Boom!, and Dark Horse will be very happy to fill the void.
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Post by hondobrode on Apr 16, 2016 11:17:54 GMT -5
I agree exactly with this.
There's more good non-superhero product now than I've ever seen.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2016 11:18:07 GMT -5
Yes, because of the variant covers that made a lot of customers that I know of want all of them and having said that it's forcing the buyer to re-prioritize his/her budget and therefore it's will hurt the comic industry of titles being canceled and all. Because I'm nearing 60 and I'm thinking of stopping buying comic books altogether and I'm thinking of terminating my account here in a year or two and saying goodbye to all of you for good. Overreact Much? Why terminate your account here? Anyway, I am okay if comics fold altogether. I have enough of them to satisfy me until I pass away and the new stories being told are not so great. I have so many genres that I am just discovering ( Cerebus, Yojimbo). To me, I'm more into hard covers books such as DC Archives and Marvel Masterworks and other editions because of the problems of variants that been flooding the market in the past years or so. About cancelling my account here - In a year from now I'll probably be posting less and less and with my age approaching 60 my days of Comics maybe over by then. My Comic Book Store is a good hour drive from where I'm at and that's in heavy traffic and all and that's can be a bothersome experience for me. I've probably keep this account open and be a contributor now and then. My days of floppies and print comics maybe over sooner and get comics through Comixology more and more as I get older. |
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Post by hondobrode on Apr 16, 2016 11:23:07 GMT -5
Comics are probably a bigger part of your life than you realize.
The CCF wouldn't be the same without you MG.
I hope you stay with us.
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