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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 3, 2017 21:23:15 GMT -5
Well, we are winding down our time with Western; so, it is time to look at their horror comics. Like most publishers, Western knew that horror sold fairly well, especially in the 60s and early 70s. This was the heyday of the DC "mystery" books, the Warren titles and more. Horro was a strong seller, going back to the Golden Age, as it had been a staple of the pulps, especially things like Weird Tales. This being Western, the horror was a bit tame. Going back to the Dell partnership, we have such things as some dabblings with the Universal monsters. These would then turn into the awful monster superhero titles, after the split. Dell did have one horror mainstay, Ghost Stories. These are fairly average for the genre, consisting primarily of your standard ghost stories: haunted houses, lost ships, departed lovers, etc.. They were fairly indistinguishable from other stories of the kind. Western went a little more whole hog into this area, with several licensed titles and a few originals. Let's start with the licensed titles. Western gained a license to produce comics based on the Boris Karloff horror anthology tv series, Thriller. The show featured Boris Karloff as the host, much like Alfred Hitchcock on his show. The comics followed the same basic format, with Karloff providing the intro to the tale. Again, this being the more conservative Western, the stories were rather tame, with lots of traditional ghost stories, gothic horror, and evil totems. In other words, they ripped off every horror story under the sun, churning out slightly blander versions. The art varied, but rarely matched that at the bigger houses. Next is Dark Shadows, based on the popular horror soap opera of the 60s and early 70s. The tv show was a gothic horror soap opera mix, centered around ancient vampire Barnabas Collins. The comic was pretty much Barnabas in various settings and episodes, with little continuity. The likeness was so-so and the stories were more reserved than the tv series, which never pushed the envelope that heavy, and got by more on the gimmick of being a horror soap. The comic did quite well, during the peak of the show; but, dwindled as the series did. The early issues, with photo covers of Jonathan Frid, are sought after, by collectors (as memorabilia, more than for the stories). These were standard Ripley's hokum, purportedly "true" ghost stories, folklore, pseudo archeology and similar sensationalistic stuff; in other words, the bread and butter of Ripley's newspaper strips and publishing empire. However, the late 60s and early 70s were a big time for mysticism and unexplained phenomena, so this had an audience. Like the other titles, the stories were rather tame and hardly convincing. They were entertaining enough, while you read them. I'll choose "not!" Like Boris Karloff's Tales of Mystery, this was an adaptation of the tv series, The Twilight Zone. Rod Serling presented the stories; but, unfortunately, didn't pick them. The level of writing is nowhere near that of the tv crowd, with the likes of Richard Matheson and George Clayton Johnson. These were a bit more formulaic, with the better stories often ripping off episodes from the series, without directly adapting them. For instance, issue 11 features a story about a pilot who sees gremlins tear up his P-38, during the war, then sees them again as a commercial pilot; but, no one else does. Pretty much Matheson's Nightmare At 20,000 Feet. While these books may not have been innovative, they did offer a chance for new talent to gain experience. Issue 84 of The Twilight Zone features a 3-page story from one Frank Miller, his first professional work. Here's Miller's debut... and another early one from him... Western did have a couple of original horror titles. The first is Grimm's Ghost Stories. These were a bit better than the other books. The title started in 1972 and pushed things into a more modern horror vein, though, again, never as far as even the DC mystery titles (certainly not Creepy or Eerie). Gothic horror was still the norm, but, there was also a Poe and Beardsley vibe, mixed with other literary inspirations. The top dog, though, of Western's horror line is The Occult Files of Doctor Spektor Dr Spektor was the brainchild of Donald F. Glut, creator of Dagar and Tragg and the Sky Gods. Glut knew how to write this stuff and it is light years ahead of the other titles. This is a nice mix of Weird Tales style pulp horror, with modern elements, ala the Hammer Horror films (minus the sex). Jesse Santos did the art here (as with Dagar), which fit the style well. Glut also had his occult hero meet up with his other creations, in a rare instance of crossovers, at Western. Man, if only Glut and Santos had been given unrestrained freedom! These titles had legs, as the horror comics audience was separate from much of the mainstream comic audience. Like war comics fans, there were people who read nothing but horror comics, which led to sales of many of these books, though often on the strength of the painted covers, by George Wilson and the other Western cover artists. I never knew anyone who had a string of these; more bits and pieces. They aren't remembered as fondly as Warren or the DC mystery books (let alone Tomb of Dracula or EC); but, they filled the yen, until something better came along. That's pretty much it for the main Western line. I'll wrap up next time, with a few odds and ends and the death of Western's comic book line. Stay tuned.
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Post by hondobrode on Sept 3, 2017 22:11:03 GMT -5
Thanks for this Cody.
Like many here my knowledge of Western is spotty at best.
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Post by MDG on Sept 4, 2017 8:58:46 GMT -5
I bought several BK Tales of Mystery and Ripley's, and have a few issues of Ghost Stories. I always found those books more disturbing than DC "mystery" books or even Warren, probably because they were told very straight (the 60s ones anyway)--they weren't trying to scare you, just presenting "the facts," especially in Ripley's. On the other hand, Warren was all over "horror" as a goal, and DC usually had a reasonable (for the Silver Age) explanation for anything that seemed paranormal.
Also--and I didn't recognize this 'til later--occasional stories by Wood and Crandall (as seen here), Evans, Williamson... On the other hand, a lot of Joe Certa.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 4, 2017 10:52:00 GMT -5
I bought several BK Tales of Mystery and Ripley's, and have a few issues of Ghost Stories. I always found those books more disturbing than DC "mystery" books or even Warren, probably because they were told very straight (the 60s ones anyway)--they weren't trying to scare you, just presenting "the facts," especially in Ripley's. On the other hand, Warren was all over "horror" as a goal, and DC usually had a reasonable (for the Silver Age) explanation for anything that seemed paranormal. Also--and I didn't recognize this 'til later--occasional stories by Wood and Crandall (as seen here), Evans, Williamson... On the other hand, a lot of Joe Certa. Well, that was the thing about a lot of Western titles; you rarely read a string of them, more ran across them now and again. If you hit the good ones, it gave you a different impression than the more mundane ones. Most of the horror titles I saw were from the early 70s and the art was fairly average and the stories were mostly generic ghost stories or ancient evil awakened. Dr Occult was a bit different, due to a more consistent art run and a more active involvement in the story. A lot of the others depended on the particular story. I usually found at least one story I liked in any but the rest were either "okay" or forgettable. I didn't read a ton of them, though, as I wasn't a big fan of horror. I have digital of all and my sampling has kind of backed up my younger impressions. Funny enough, Leo Dorfman, who wrote a lot of horror for DC, contributed a lot to the Western titles and it was suggested that he would sell his lesser stuff to Western, who were less critical of a weaker story. I haven't come across anything from the EC crowd; I'll have to dig around. I kind of prefer the pulpier stuff, which is why Don Glut's stuff always stuck with me, with Spektor and Dagar. He knew how to write that stuff.
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Post by MDG on Sept 4, 2017 14:48:23 GMT -5
Well, that was the thing about a lot of Western titles; you rarely read a string of them, more ran across them now and again. If you hit the good ones, it gave you a different impression than the more mundane ones. Most of the horror titles I saw were from the early 70s and the art was fairly average and the stories were mostly generic ghost stories or ancient evil awakened. The one I have are mainly '60s. Never say them on stands in the 70s--though often see 70s issues in flea markets, etc. I haven't come across anything from the EC crowd; I'll have to dig around. Your samples above include Wood and Crandall, and possibly Evans.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 4, 2017 15:07:48 GMT -5
Well, that was the thing about a lot of Western titles; you rarely read a string of them, more ran across them now and again. If you hit the good ones, it gave you a different impression than the more mundane ones. Most of the horror titles I saw were from the early 70s and the art was fairly average and the stories were mostly generic ghost stories or ancient evil awakened. The one I have are mainly '60s. Never say them on stands in the 70s--though often see 70s issues in flea markets, etc. I haven't come across anything from the EC crowd; I'll have to dig around. Your samples above include Wood and Crandall, and possibly Evans. I pulled the images from the web; but, hadn't read those stories. Just went looking for visual examples. Go figure...
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 4, 2017 17:32:02 GMT -5
Some last odds and ends... One of the other key licenses, besides Disney, was for the Looney Tunes characters, from Warner Bros. Basically, these were adventures with all of your favorite characters, in the style of the cartoons. The Dell years were probably the strongest, as Western benefited from talent from the Schlessinger studios, who could both capture the model and the spirit of the cartoons. Characters crossed over and shared adventures, much as they did in the newspaper strip. The popularity was such that they carried right on to the end of Western, though the 50s and 60s were the highpoint for the line, overall, with Bugs Bunny and Looney Tunes being big sellers from the 40s on up. The characters went to Gold Key, after the split, and continued up through the Whitman era, before the end finally came. They weren't noted for classic stories, like the Uncle Scrooge adventures of Barks; but, they were good solid fun and most issues contained good stories. The one unique book was the Road Runner comic. It featured a collection of nephews of Beep, and the characters all spoke in rhyme, rather than using signs, as in the cartoons. It was an interesting idea, though it made for some odd stories. The basic plot was still the same, that Wile E Coyote was trying to eat them; but, the dynamic was a bit different. It's a shame that no one has collected these in "best of" books or something similar, as there were some terrific stories. In the early 70s, Western introduced a few new titles, all original. These were aimed squarely at kids, aiming for the same market as Harvey. OG Whiz was the creation of John Stanley, the creative force behind the Little Lulu comics of the Dell years. Stanley originally stayed with Dell, when it split wit Western; but, later came over to join in creating this series. It features a young boy who runs a toy company and shares much with Richie Rich. Stanley, who was a cartoonist, also provided the art. They were fine little children's comics, though they didn't quite reach the audience of Harvey. The second feature was Wacky Witch, about the adventures of a little green witch. I don't recall seeing these much in the wild, but I think I may have read one or two Wacky Witch books. The few examples I have found on the web suggest basic kids humor, with a lively cartoony style. However, the 70s was when things started becoming tougher for Western. These didn't have the name recognition that the Disney, Warner and hanna-Barbera comics did, which didn't help sell them. This one started in the mid-60s and was probably riding the wave of the Universal monster movies on tv, coupled with shows like the Munsters and Addams Family. I have vague memories of seeing at least one of these comics. Hanna-Barbera was another big license of Western, though Charlton controlled it for a while. It came to Gold Key and they produced some terrific Scooby Doo comics, with Dan Spiegle doing the art, which continued when Marvel picked up the license in the later 70s. Mark Evanier wrote some of this (as well as some of the Warner and Krofft-based comics) and also continued at Marvel. Speaking of Dan Spiegle, his Maverick work is a thing of beauty, both capturing the look and feel of the series, as well as just great Western art. In later years, Spiegle would create Maverick paintings. One last little odd Western title was Jet Dream and Her Stunt Girl Counter-Spies. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say this was probably inspired by Pussy Galore's Flying Circus, in the movie Goldfinger. I had never heard of it until seeing an entry in Jeff Rovin's Encyclopedia of Adventure Heroes. I did come across a sample, on the web. Jet Dream started as a back-up, in the Man From UNCLE comics, before getting her own one-shot. It seems a nice idea that just didn't go anywhere. Western had chugged right along, from the 40s up through the 60s. When they split with Dell, they were in the stronger position and the 60s were good to them, producing some of their best work. The 70s brought economic turmoil to the country and especially newsstands. More mom and pop grocery stores and drug stores disappeared and with them went magazine racks. It became harder and harder to find comics, as they decade wore on. DC and Marvel fought to keep hold of the market and flooded stands to force off the smaller companies. It became harder and harder to find anything from Western, Harvey, Charlton, or Archie and Atlas-Seaboard barely got even a toehold on the market. Western had another outlet, the bagged sets. These would be sold in department and toy stores, on pegs and spinner racks and could also be found in other venues, like grocery stores. The only problem was that you could only see two of the three comics and there were often duplications. This made for some careful buying. Also, Western's sales people sold them in bulk and the vclient might then spend the next few months selling them, before buying more. The salesmen moved a lot of units at one time, but not necessarily over time. There were also some unscrupulous retailers who opened the bags and then returned the comics with the newsstand versions. Western got wise to this and started printing the bagged sets under the Whitman banner, with a different cover logo. They also didn't stop at just their own comics. In the 70s, they were selling thousands of DC books, with a Whitman symbol in place of the DC bullet. My hometown grocery store had a rack of these for a time and I bought up about a dozen of them. I was careful to look for duplication and got quite a bit of Legion of Superheroes, Batman, and Superman titles this way. By 1981, Western had ceased newsstand distribution and went solely with the bagged comics. By 1984, they shuttered the line. They lost the Star Trek license in 1979, to Marvel and were mostly producing Disney and Warner titles, at the end, with some reprints of their adventure heroes. Western soldiered on, producing books, puzzles and games, under the Whitman and Golden Books names, before being absorbed by other companies, which ended up in bankruptcy, in the 90s. Their assets were split off and rights ended up in various places. The comics lay dormant, as no one seemed to want them, until Jim Shooter came calling. He was working with Valiant to create a line of comics, which so far consisted of titles related to Nintendo and the WWF. He was able to convince them to license some of the Gold Key heroes, including Magnus, Solar and Turok, while then adding new characters (many variations on the New Universe properties). The line took off, in part due to nostalgia for these old Gold Key properties; but also due to the fresh nature of the stories. Valiant soon built good word of mouth and then speculators came calling, since early Valiant had low print runs and more limited distribution. Suddenly, everyone jumped on the bandwagon and the line grew rapidly, though so did the rift between Shooter and the Valiant owners, leading to his departure. The Gold Key properties became downgraded in favor of the company-owned titles and that was that. They have since been reprinted at Dark Horse and Dynamite (and a revival), as well as parodied at Bongo. At one point, Shooter was working with the owners of the Golden Books properties to produce a line of comics featuring the Gold Key heroes, though it never came to pass. Many of the current crop of indie publishers have followed the Western blueprint of publishing licensed comics, though not quite with the same success. Western sold them to a much larger audience than is available in the Direct Market and the license holders know the value of their properties better. I suspect Western had a better split of the profits than Dynamite or Boom Studios. Western's legacy is a mix of merchandising (licensed books) and good solid children's entertainment, with occasional flashes of artistic achievement. They produced some good comics and a lot of average; and, with Carl barks, some all-time classics. For that, we salute them. They certainly gave me quite a bit of entertainment.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,391
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Post by shaxper on Sept 4, 2017 19:36:15 GMT -5
Well done all around. I'm completely and thoroughly in awe here. Thank you.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Sept 5, 2017 6:08:02 GMT -5
Yeah, what Shaxper said. Specific to the last post, do you know who the artist is on the Jet Dream book? It's really quite nice - also, where did you find the samples? Of these, I had some of the Gold Key Looney Tunes comics when I was in my funny animal phase. I didn't like them as much as the Disney Ducks, but some of the Bugs stories were pretty solid, as I recall. I also remember having some of the books you mentioned that Marvel published in the later '70s, like a few issues of Dyno-Mutt & the Blue Falcon (which were just o.k.). And I had a similar experience with the bagged DC books with the Whitman logo on them. They were very cheap, and like you, I got a pretty sizeable stack of Superman, Batman and Superboy & the Legion books that way, as well as my favorites of those: the initial issues of DC Comics Presents, including those with art by Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez (PBHN).
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Post by Prince Hal on Sept 5, 2017 7:42:32 GMT -5
EdoBosnar , I'm pretty sure it's Jack Sparling on the first pages of Jet Dream, Joe Certa on the second set.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 5, 2017 9:27:29 GMT -5
Yeah, what Shaxper said. Specific to the last post, do you know who the artist is on the Jet Dream book? It's really quite nice - also, where did you find the samples? Of these, I had some of the Gold Key Looney Tunes comics when I was in my funny animal phase. I didn't like them as much as the Disney Ducks, but some of the Bugs stories were pretty solid, as I recall. I also remember having some of the books you mentioned that Marvel published in the later '70s, like a few issues of Dyno-Mutt & the Blue Falcon (which were just o.k.). And I had a similar experience with the bagged DC books with the Whitman logo on them. They were very cheap, and like you, I got a pretty sizeable stack of Superman, Batman and Superboy & the Legion books that way, as well as my favorites of those: the initial issues of DC Comics Presents, including those with art by Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez (PBHN). The samples came from here. Prince Hal is correct; Jack Sparling and Mike Sekowsky did the back-up stories in the Man From UNCLE comics and Joe Certa did the art in the Jet Dream one-shot. Of the Looney Tunes stuff I read, Bugs Bunny, by far, had the best stories, though most of what I saw was from the Dell era (and I have seen only a few. I have some digital of them and during that period I believe they had work from some of the Schlessinger people, who did the actual cartoon shorts. Certainly inn the 40s. I'm not sure about the Gold Key years. I know later days they had artists following model sheets and people like Mark Evanier were writing the comics. Of the stuff, I've sampled, the earlier material was far better than the later. They couldn't compare to the Barks' Duck material, but what could? Even so, they had entertaining stories, even if they were a bit repetitive. I suspect most kids only sampled them, anyway, and probably didn't notice, until they were older. Most of the Gold Key I ever had I received as either gifts or picked up in trade, or bought later, as an adult, out of curiosity. I probably read a few in the barbershop, too.
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Post by brutalis on Sept 5, 2017 13:29:49 GMT -5
Remember only ever owning 4 of these as kid: Bugs Bunny, Road Runner, Little Monsters and a Scooby Doo. All were gifts from my grandparents who lived up in Payson during their retirement. Have no clue as to where they ever found them but I know that these were seldom seen here in Phoenix. Because if they had been around and available where I would see them I would have certainly bought or begged for some at the time.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Sept 6, 2017 3:23:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the information gentlemen, and for the link, Cody. I'd never seen that blog before - cool.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 6, 2017 10:10:51 GMT -5
For those curious, who may have been too young to see the bagged sets Western sold in various locales, here's a sample: Unfortunately, there aren't many samples to be had, as most people ripped open the bags to read the comics. The packaging changed over time; and, as you can see, price and number of comics. It was a set of three, until the later years, when they reduced to keep it under a dollar. Western wasn't the onlt company to do this. There were other bagged sets, going back at least to the 60s, if not earlier. Other distributors sold comics this way to retail outlets, like Kresge. Marvel comics were sold this way form other sources. On a family trip to Florida, I picked up a bunch at a Stuckeys. Charlton did this , themselves, under the Mighty Comics name, reprinting specific comics, with the Mighty Comic banner in place of the Charlton bullseye. DC put out sets in the Silver Age and you can find a few samples of those on the web. However, Western did it on a larger scale, putting out an entire month's worth of comics, every month. Problem was, a retailer might buy up a month's worth and then sell them over a quarter or longer; so, you might not see new ones for several months. The bags were designed to be displayed on retail pegs, usually in the area with coloring books or impulse items, depending on the outlet. Western created their own display racks which were used, especially, in grocery/convenience stores and the comic shops that carried them. They even advertised the racks in their promo pages, in their comics (mostly in the latter years). Some of the bags were variety sets, others contained three issues of the same comics. The Buck Rogers adaptation was sold complete, with the three issues that adapt the film/pilot. Same with things like the adaptation of Disney's Condorman (I had both of those). The DC ones would either be single characters, like the Trinity, or a mixture of other books (like the Legion and Justice League). Anytime you see the Whitman logo on a DC or Western books, it is from the bagged sets. When Western went solely to the bags, they stopped using the Gold Key logo and used Whitman, exclusively. The reason was that the Whitman name carried brand weight, as they were the largest publishers of coloring and activity books for kids, jigsaw puzzles, and other toys and games. Their sales people might go to a store or chain buyer and sell them so many lots of coloring books, so many puzzles and so many comic sets. Buying was based on sell through and display space, for most retail items.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Sept 6, 2017 10:23:04 GMT -5
Somebody...possibly Marvel...possibly a third party, sold Marvel Giant-Size books in a cello two-pack. This would have been well after the books were on the stand. Possibly as late as 78-80. I picked up a lot of Giant-Sizes that way, including the entire rum of Giant-Size Man-Thing.
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