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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 0:42:23 GMT -5
Stuntman, Boys' Ranch, and Wampire brought me memories of reading them ... I did read some Boys' Ranch books back then and some recollection of some of the stories that came about. One of my ex-girlfriends was hooked on First Love and that's was her favorite comic book and she had a quite of few of them and I read about 12-16 of them when we were together.
Fighting Fronts! and those Horror Books were gems and I did enjoy reading them too.
Brought back good memories here ...
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Post by EdoBosnar on Feb 9, 2018 6:06:46 GMT -5
Interesting, I've known about a number of these, esp. the Simon & Kirby titles like Stuntman and Boys' Ranch, as well as, say, Black Cat, but for some reason I just never associated them with Harvey. Also interesting to recall that Harvey (which those of us who came into comics later associate mainly with "kiddie" stuff) really came under fire during the big comics panic of the early 1950s.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 9:43:49 GMT -5
I never knew Boy's Ranch was published by Harvey.
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 9, 2018 10:14:15 GMT -5
Just to be sure I understand what you (a man of wealth and taste) mean... you'd rank Tallarico above Heck and Robbins? :0 When looking at Tallarico's range of talents...yes, I would. The only thing that made Heck's Avengers and Robbins' Invaders run tolerable was the strength of the stories, but their work was far from the best (cover and/or interiors) ever to grace those respective titles. While some of Tallarico's superhero work is not the best, again, his other abilities makes him more than "just" a comic artist. Lost on what other abilites he had... At least both Robbins and Don Heck were competent artists who had a style. And just because neither artist was one of the best on a title doesn't make either of them bad. Robbins was the Invaders, after all; his retro style set the tone for the book. And Heck's strength, as Slam said, was not on the superhero stuff. Give him a romance, sf or Western story, and he turned in nice work. I don't see Tallarico as having a unique style. More power to him for being able to make a career out of D-level art, but he is the epitome of bland.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 9, 2018 13:37:55 GMT -5
When Simon and Kirby came home from the war, they operated a studio, providing material for other companies. Their two main clients were Harvey and Crestwood (via their Prize Comics line). They then tried to set up their own company, Mainline; but, the hysteria of the mid-50s killed them. They had whole unopened bundles returned, as newsstands were afraid to put out comics, in some areas.
Simon & Kirby met Alfred Harvey at Fox Comics, though Simon was the closest to the Harvey's, socially. Joe Simon married Alfred Harvey's secretary, Harriet Feldman. Simon & Kirby leased space from Harvey, when they started Mainline. There was always a cosy relationship between them. There is some belief that they produced some material for Harvey, while working for DC, by using a pseudonyms Glaven and Jon Henri (in separate stories).
There are other connections, that I will get to, later, when I talk about Simon's time as a staff editor for Harvey.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 13:43:59 GMT -5
When Simon and Kirby came home from the war, they operated a studio, providing material for other companies. Their two main clients were Harvey and Crestwood (via their Prize Comics line). They then tried to set up their own company, Mainline; but, the hysteria of the mid-50s killed them. They had whole unopened bundles returned, as newsstands were afraid to put out comics, in some areas. Simon & Kirby met Alfred Harvey at Fox Comics, though Simon was the closest to the Harvey's, socially. Joe Simon married Alfred Harvey's secretary, Harriet Feldman. Simon & Kirby leased space from Harvey, when they started Mainline. There was always a cosy relationship between them. There is some belief that they produced some material for Harvey, while working for DC, by using a pseudonyms Glaven and Jon Henri (in separate stories). There are other connections, that I will get to, later, when I talk about Simon's time as a staff editor for Harvey. Can I pre order your book on "The Secret History of Comic Books"? What? You aren't writing one? That's a shame because it would be awesome based on this thread.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 10, 2018 1:11:48 GMT -5
When Simon and Kirby came home from the war, they operated a studio, providing material for other companies. Their two main clients were Harvey and Crestwood (via their Prize Comics line). They then tried to set up their own company, Mainline; but, the hysteria of the mid-50s killed them. They had whole unopened bundles returned, as newsstands were afraid to put out comics, in some areas. Simon & Kirby met Alfred Harvey at Fox Comics, though Simon was the closest to the Harvey's, socially. Joe Simon married Alfred Harvey's secretary, Harriet Feldman. Simon & Kirby leased space from Harvey, when they started Mainline. There was always a cosy relationship between them. There is some belief that they produced some material for Harvey, while working for DC, by using a pseudonyms Glaven and Jon Henri (in separate stories). There are other connections, that I will get to, later, when I talk about Simon's time as a staff editor for Harvey. Can I pre order your book on "The Secret History of Comic Books"? What? You aren't writing one? That's a shame because it would be awesome based on this thread.
Well, if I do put one out, I hope I keep to a better schedule than Jim Steranko. Or Michael Fleischer, for that matter.
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Post by brianf on Feb 12, 2018 4:54:48 GMT -5
Yeah, personally I find it a bit off-putting when Don Heck gets thrown into this general "bad" or "middling" artist category; at his best, he produced outstanding work, and even when he wasn't firing on all cylinders (like in the '70s), he still produced solid art that was nothing to be ashamed of. Heck makes me think TEETH - the way he draws teeth is too distracting for me.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 12, 2018 13:39:00 GMT -5
Early Don Heck... Iron Man (pencils and inks)... more Marvel (Romita inks)... DC (Giordano inks)... Heck, from 1981, on an adaptation of The Virginian... As this blog notes, Heck, in the mid-70s was often vcalled upon to bail out an editor with a deadline problem, having to rush out the job and saddled with inkers who equally rushed it. It was part of why he left Marvel for DC, in the late 70s and stayed there. When you look at some artists who worked in comics and their work seems subpar, you might be surprised to see it in other realms. Some of the Charlton guys were poo-pooed; but, you'd see them elsewhere and it was fantastic. The low rates meant they didn't always put the same time into the job as they did for a better paying gig. Heck was one who put his best into everything; but, he preferred to have control over the finished product and a reasonable deadline to facilitate his best work. When you have 2-3 weeks to do the book vs 3-5 days, you get a different result.
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 12, 2018 15:14:49 GMT -5
Yeah, personally I find it a bit off-putting when Don Heck gets thrown into this general "bad" or "middling" artist category; at his best, he produced outstanding work, and even when he wasn't firing on all cylinders (like in the '70s), he still produced solid art that was nothing to be ashamed of. Heck makes me think TEETH - the way he draws teeth is too distracting for me. Teeth makes me think George Tuska more than Heck. Even Iron man has a shiny set of choppers! Plus he loved those fingers extending toward the reader...
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Post by brianf on Feb 12, 2018 15:16:34 GMT -5
Teeth makes me think George Tuska more than Heck. Even Iron man has a shiny set of choppers! aww, geeze yer right - toothy Tuska - my mistake
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 12, 2018 15:52:15 GMT -5
Hmmm. Could this have been an hommage to George, brianf?
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Post by MDG on Feb 12, 2018 16:31:01 GMT -5
Teeth makes me think George Tuska more than Heck. Even Iron man has a shiny set of choppers! aww, geeze yer right - toothy Tuska - my mistake Eisner used "Gar Tooth" as the name for his character based on Tuska in "The Dreamer," but I'd guess only as a play on "tusk."
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 14, 2018 2:24:02 GMT -5
Amazingly, neither Don Heck nor George Tuska have anything to do with our next segment of Harvey... At the end of the 40s, Harvey started moving more into licensed characters for comics. In 1951, they discovered that Famous Studios (which was owned by Paramount) had characters up for grabs, as their license to St John Publications had expired. The secured a deal to create comics based on some of their cartoon characters. The results were comic series featuring Little Audrey, Baby Huey, Herman and Katnip, and a boy ghost, named Casper. Little Audrey was essentially a knock-off of Little Lulu, created by Famous Studios to hop on the coattails of Lulu, who they were also featuring in cartoons. However, according to Leonard Maltin, they were unhappy with paying Lulu creator Marge Henderson Buell royalties for the character, so they created their own version and kept the profits. The template for Audrey was pretty much the same, though her design was in deliberate contrast to Lulu. She had her little adventures, like any other cartoon character. Harvey started publishing with issue #24 and continued until 1976. The character was given a bit of a makeover, to more closely resemble the house style at Harvey. She was fairly popular; but never at the top of the Harvey line. Baby Huey was a different story. The character, in the cartoons, is a rather oversized duckling, who wants to play with his peers; but, often says or does the wrong thing. The push him aside and a fox tries to go after his peers, only to shift gear to going after Huey. Usually, Huey either figured out the fox was trying to eat him and whalloped him, or the fox got tired of dealing with the dimwit and gave up. The comics featured much the same dynamic, with a wider scope to his adventures and the trouble he caused his parents and his strength often being used to bail out a trio of ducklings who abused him. The character was published in comics until 1972. Herman and Katnip first appeared in Harvey Comics His (though they were in a St John Casper comic); but, were relegated to back-up status at Harvey. They were pretty much and Tom and Jerry knock-off and even Harvey editor Sid Jacobson said there wasn't much you could do with them. Casper turned out to be the popular one out of the Famous Studios bunch and Harvey soon started adding to the character. His early stories followed the style of the cartoons; but, Harvey soon started adding to it. His relatives, the Ghostly Trio (Fatso, Fusso and Lazo) soon took on a bigger role, and characters like Wendy the Good Witch, Nightmare the ghost horse, and Spooky, the pugnacious ghost were added to the mix. These characters appeared in adventures with Casper and were spun off into their own stories. Casper soon inhabited a fantasy world, with animal and mythic friends, while the Ghostly Trio and others caused problems, which Casper and his friends solved. The character soon became a mascot for the company and his role expanded as they grew. he eventually was named a mascot for UNICEF and was featured in annual Trick-or-Treat-for-UNICEF campaigns. His popularity led to cartoon shows (first with the Paramount shorts, then new cartoons) and, eventually, the movies of the 90s). His greatest achievement is probably having his name given to the command module of Apollo 16. He has been a mascot for the Cub Scouts, a spokes-ghost for Purina's Sugar Chex, a popular Halloween costume and much much more. When Harvey was revived in the 90s, Casper was right in the center, thanks to his movie. melrosetroop68.org/uploaded_images/CasperScout-769048.jpgThe comics themselves are a bit simplistic; but have a charm to them, especially the material from the 60s and early 70s. Casper and their friends have whimsical adventures and good values are always built into the stories. Although adults see him as rather quaint and one dimensional, kids loved the character and there was enough nostalgia to make the fairly mediocre movie a hit, leading to further Casper media projects. And, despite what Bart Simpson asserts, Casper is not the ghost of Richie Rich. Here's a sample... One of the factors in Casper's success lay in the writing. Several of the writers were cartoon directors, who came over from famous Studios. Since they were used to storyboarding the cartoons, their writing had a visual flair, which then fed into the pencilling and inking of the comics. They were kept in that simple, animated style, which gave fluidity to the characters. Warren Kremer was instrumental in redefining Casper's look, giving him the classic silhouette we all know. That fed back into the cartoons on television and beyond. In 1958, Harvey bought the Famous Studios characters for $6 million dollars. If that seems like a big outlay for a comic book company, there was a bit of twist to the deal. Paramount was under pressure from the government to divest itself of movie theaters, as the studios used to control chains of theaters. Once tv came along, paramount also owned tv stations. However, Federal guidelines limited their ability to promote features they owned, over others. Paramount got around this by selling to Harvey, then paying a licensing fee back to Harvey, returning their money to them. For Harvey, it mean that their investment was repaid over time, by Paramount; plus, they owned the characters and didn't have to pay license fees to Paramount for the comics and could merchandise them on their own. Casper was strong into the 1970s; but, soon found him being pushed aside by the Richie Rich juggernaut. By the mid 70s, most of the Casper spin-offs were gone and Casper's profile waned. When Harvey ceased publishing, he went back to the netherworld. However, in 1984, Columbia Pictures launched a film, called Ghostbusters. The posters and the Busters sported this logo... Harvey, and many comic fans, thought it bore a rather strong resemblance to the Ghostly Trio and filed a lawsuit (and lost). It brought a ton of press to Harvey, which was pretty much in limbo. This publicity helped relaunch Harvey; who were, at one point, being distributed by Marvel. Marvel had actually tried to acquire Harvey; but, negotiations broke down as Marvel's offer kept getting lower and Harvey balked at the idea. Marvel was also cold to the lawsuits that had been filed by people like Fred Rhoads, over nonpayment for reprints. Casper and other titles were revived for a time, until the line was shut down again. With the Casper movie from Amblin, Harvey launched a Casper magazine, then a Harvey magazine, before finally pulling the plug. Casper and the other Famous Studio characters weren't the only component of Harvey's attempts at children's comics. They soon started developing their own characters and we will look at those, next time.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 14, 2018 17:56:04 GMT -5
By the end of the 40 and the early 50s, Harvey was acquiring licenses for comic strip and animation characters. However, they also knew there was potentially more money in characters they owned. To that end, they started creating and developing their own material, aimed at the same child market. Their first hit was a little girl, with a rather strong obsession... Little Dot first appeared in 1949, as a back up feature in the first issue of Harvey's Sad Sack Comics. From the start she was an oddball, a bright, cheerful character, with a massive obsession for dots. It didn't help that her given name was Dorothy "Dot" Polka! Dot was all over anything with dots (she lover her a case of measles or chicken pox), to the utter consternation of her parents and teachers. many of the stories dealt with those adults schemes to break her of her obsession, only for it to backfire on them. Adding to the mix were a rather eccentric bunch of aunts and uncles, who proved so popular that they were part of the spin-off title, Little Dot Uncles and Aunts. Dot had so many "uncles" that you started to think her mother was a prostitute! Well, maybe not, since this is Harvey....wanyway. Dot hung on until Harvey started to disappear from the landscape, though her profile diminished quite a bit in the 70s, as Richie Rich mania was in full form. The ironic thing is that her regular series was used as the launching ground for other Harvey originals, in 1953, just as she was launched by Sad Sack. Lotta Plump hit the scene in Little Dot #1. She's a rather large gal, with a glutenous appetite. However, she is also immensely strong and her friends love and respect her for it. On the surface, it would seem that the comic is making fun of a child with an eating disorder, and there is an element of that; but, Lotta is never treated as an outsider. her friends all love and respect her and she is a very positive character. Once in a while a bully or other jerk makes a crack and Lotta soon makes them wish they had kept their mouth shut. Lotta has a boyfriend Gerald, who is skinny and meek, yet Lotta adores him. Together, they often act out superhero fantasies, as Flying Man and Leaping Lotta. Here's a Lotta sample...Many of Lotta's stories were the work of artist Sid Couchey, who even did a strip where Lotta is pondering her history lesson, about Washington throwing a silver dollar across the Potomac. Lotta doesn't have a silver dollar, so she hurls a pumpkin. meanwhile, a man and a woman are sitting on a park bench, on the other side of the river. The man, Sid, professes his love to Ruth, the woman. He says if he is lying, may the sky fall on his head; and, the pumpkin comes splatting down on top of him, causing Ruth to leave in a huff! Sid is artist Sid Couchey and Ruth was based on his wife. Lotta stuck around until 1976, until unseated by the Richie Rich deluge, which pretty much washed away all of the Harvey Girls, as they were known, though they would appear in Richie Rich Girl Friends. Wendy, the Good Little Witch first appeared as a back-up feature in Casper the Friendly Ghost #20, in 1954. She meets Casper when he helps stop a fight between witches and ghosts. She lives with her three aunts Thelma, Velma, and Zelma, who practice black magic and have green, wartish skin (due to a lack of sleep, don't you know...) Wendy was a foundling left on their doorstep (I don't know which is worse, abandoning a baby, or abandoning it to witches who practice black magic). However, despite their best efforts, Wendy always calls on good spirits and casts spells of white magic. Wendy soon got her own title, after a spotlight in Harvey Hits and went on from there. She was introduced into the Casper cartoons in 1958, after Harvey had purchased the properties. She would continue on with Casper and her own title, until the decline. Spooky was another Casper spin-off, a tough ghost with a derby and a Brooklyn accent. Unlike Casper, he likes to scare; but, his girlfriend Pearl (who he rescued from captivity to three evil witches) always admonishes him for it. he is friendlier to Casper than the Ghostly Trio. Hot Stuff was created by Harvey's defining artist, Warren Kremer. He's not exactly a spin-off of Casper; but, he fits into that whole world, though his adventures tended to be seperate. Hot Stuff is a little devil, inclined to impish pranks; but, he is never eveil or malicious. He was often teamed with Wendy, who would admonish him to do good; and, he would, in the end. Many of his stories were the work of Howard Post, an artist with a background in animation (at Paramount), who also created Anthro, for DC. Post was abrilliant humor artist and it carres through in his work, which has a great visual flair. Ernie Colon also did a great deal of Hot Stuff material. Appearing in Hot Stuff, was the friendly giant, Stumbo... Stumbo is a massive man, who likes to rest his back again the mountains, outside Tinytown. He is helpful to the citizens, lifting their village out of floods, and helping them in various ways. His only enemy is Dr Cesspool, who tries to shame and embarrass him, which usually ends up backfiring. Warren Kremer created Stumbo and many consider it to be his finest work and it is a favorite of his massive body of comic stories. Stumbo exists in a fairytale world, which gives great scope to the artist's imagination. You can see more samples here.These are all fine comics, with a lively humor and a sense of good fun, which appealed greatly to kids, especially in the 60s and even into the 70s. Most, however, would soon get pushed aside by the real Harvey giant, Richie Rich. He is our subject, next time...
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