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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 19, 2020 9:17:19 GMT -5
That's funny. Michael Moorcock said that Grant Morrison ripped him off and I've definitely heard folks unthinkingly parrot that as well. I suspect that Moorcock had read the 20 or so pages of the thousands and thousands of pages of comics that Morrison wrote that had a little Elric in them - This is probably the same average as any literate comics writer. The "Supergods" argument against Moore has the same (total absence of anything resembling) validity. British dudes need to stop whinging about plagaurism! Some fans are dumb enough to believe you! The thing about Morrison and Moore both is that they are both categorically and unflinchingly honest about their influences, scrupulous about giving credit, and always pulling from a wide 'n deep pool of writers, artists, scientists, and cultural history. They're never just borrowing from one dude.) Supergods is the single worst book I’ve read in decades.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 19, 2020 12:28:44 GMT -5
That's funny. Michael Moorcock said that Grant Morrison ripped him off and I've definitely heard folks unthinkingly parrot that as well. I suspect that Moorcock had read the 20 or so pages of the thousands and thousands of pages of comics that Morrison wrote that had a little Elric in them - This is probably the same average as any literate comics writer. The "Supergods" argument against Moore has the same (total absence of anything resembling) validity. British dudes need to stop whinging about plagaurism! Some fans are dumb enough to believe you! The thing about Morrison and Moore both is that they are both categorically and unflinchingly honest about their influences, scrupulous about giving credit, and always pulling from a wide 'n deep pool of writers, artists, scientists, and cultural history. They're never just borrowing from one dude.) Supergods is the single worst book I’ve read in decades. It was of its time and tries to be satirical, without ever really being clever or funny. I liked it well enough for what it is, though groaned at most attempts at jokes. Moore pursued the ideas in a better fashion; but, he also used them with characters who had the weight of history to thm (in many cases), rather than badly named pastiches. It isn't Superduperman, which Moore has cited as a huge influence on him. I kind of got the feeling that Mayer was trying for that; but was neither Harvey Kurtzman nor Wally Wood.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 19, 2020 12:38:34 GMT -5
Supergods is the single worst book I’ve read in decades. It was of its time and tries to be satirical, without ever really being clever or funny. I liked it well enough for what it is, though groaned at most attempts at jokes. Moore pursued the ideas in a better fashion; but, he also used them with characters who had the weight of history to thm (in many cases), rather than badly named pastiches. It isn't Superduperman, which Moore has cited as a huge influence on him. I kind of got the feeling that Mayer was trying for that; but was neither Harvey Kurtzman nor Wally Wood. I was talking Grant Morrison's Supergods, not Robert Mayer's Superfolks. I haven't read Mayer's book in probably 20 years and have only the vaguest recollection of it.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 19, 2020 13:03:45 GMT -5
That's funny. Michael Moorcock said that Grant Morrison ripped him off and I've definitely heard folks unthinkingly parrot that as well. I suspect that Moorcock had read the 20 or so pages of the thousands and thousands of pages of comics that Morrison wrote that had a little Elric in them - This is probably the same average as any literate comics writer. The "Supergods" argument against Moore has the same (total absence of anything resembling) validity. British dudes need to stop whinging about plagaurism! Some fans are dumb enough to believe you! The thing about Morrison and Moore both is that they are both categorically and unflinchingly honest about their influences, scrupulous about giving credit, and always pulling from a wide 'n deep pool of writers, artists, scientists, and cultural history. They're never just borrowing from one dude.) Well that and reading King Mob and large chunks of the Invisibles ripping off Jerry Cornelius and a lot of Moorcock's themes, motifs, plots, etc. etc. Except it wasn't King Mob. The character who was supposedly ripping off Moorcock was Gideon Stargrave who appeared in... what? 3 issues of the Invisibles? Out of 60. (And if I'm remembering right Stargrave wasn't even the focal character in two of the three issues.) It was the same character that Morrison *ahem* "created" in 1978. Granted, the Invisibles is DENSE, and Stargrave was pretending to be King Mob in order to throw off interrogation in a couple scenes. I guess I can see how fans got confused if they couldn't be arsed to read carefully. So, no, it wasn't "themes, motifs, plots etc." Or at least you're the only person in the world who is arguing "themes, motifs, plots" etc. It was one character who appeared in exactly six comics. Looking at Grant Morrison's bibliography, he's written more'n 400. Link.Linky Link. Quick summary - We are dealing with exactly six comics written almost twenty years apart. Morrison cites the influence for the character of Gideon Stargrave.... and it's J. G. Ballard. *Shrug* But yet the urban legend cheerfully persists, and nobody ever learns anything. There is a sizable contingent of cheerfully ignorant comic fans who take it on nigh-religious faith that virtually everything Morrison ever wrote was swiped from Moorcock. And it's not just you! I swear I've had this same exact goddamn argument at least 10 times over my decade-and-a-half of message boarding. It's like some messed up version of the Mandela effect. But, yet, I keep hearing the same nonsensical bastardization of Moorcock's actual (flimsy-ass) argument from otherwise sensible people, I am left with only one possible conclusion ... This is 100% the result of Alan Moore casting a curse.
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Post by rberman on Feb 19, 2020 14:23:09 GMT -5
That's funny. Michael Moorcock said that Grant Morrison ripped him off and I've definitely heard folks unthinkingly parrot that as well. I suspect that Moorcock had read the 20 or so pages of the thousands and thousands of pages of comics that Morrison wrote that had a little Elric in them - This is probably the same average as any literate comics writer. The "Supergods" argument against Moore has the same (total absence of anything resembling) validity. British dudes need to stop whinging about plagaurism! Some fans are dumb enough to believe you! The thing about Morrison and Moore both is that they are both categorically and unflinchingly honest about their influences, scrupulous about giving credit, and always pulling from a wide 'n deep pool of writers, artists, scientists, and cultural history. They're never just borrowing from one dude.) Supergods is the single worst book I’ve read in decades. Now there's a strong opinion! Can you elaborate? I found it a helpful primer on Grant Morrion's particular brand of bonkers that made his various series more intelligible. Well that and reading King Mob and large chunks of the Invisibles ripping off Jerry Cornelius and a lot of Moorcock's themes, motifs, plots, etc. etc. Except it wasn't King Mob. The character who was supposedly ripping off Moorcock was Gideon Stargrave who appeared in... what? 3 issues of the Invisibles? Out of 60. (And if I'm remembering right Stargrave wasn't even the focal character in two of the three issues.) It was the same character that Morrison *ahem* "created" in 1978. Granted, the Invisibles is DENSE, and Stargrave was pretending to be King Mob in order to throw off interrogation in a couple scenes. I guess I can see how fans got confused if they couldn't be arsed to read carefully. So, no, it wasn't "themes, motifs, plots etc." Or at least you're the only person in the world who is arguing "themes, motifs, plots" etc. It was one character who appeared in exactly six comics. Looking at Grant Morrison's bibliography, he's written more'n 400. Link.Linky Link. Quick summary - We are dealing with exactly six comics written almost twenty years apart. Morrison cites the influence for the character of Gideon Stargrave.... and it's J. G. Ballard. *Shrug* But yet the urban legend cheerfully persists, and nobody ever learns anything. There is a sizable contingent of cheerfully ignorant comic fans who take it on nigh-religious faith that virtually everything Morrison ever wrote was swiped from Moorcock. And it's not just you! I swear I've had this same exact goddamn argument at least 10 times over my decade-and-a-half of message boarding. It's like some messed up version of the Mandela effect. But, yet, I keep hearing the same nonsensical bastardization of Moorcock's actual (flimsy-ass) argument from otherwise sensible people, I am left with only one possible conclusion ... This is 100% the result of Alan Moore casting a curse. Alan Moore has put himself in his comic books. And Grant Morrison has put both himself and Alan Moore in his comic books. Alan Moore wouldn't admit it, but has he ever put Grant Morrison in a comic book?
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Post by mikelmidnight on Feb 19, 2020 14:31:00 GMT -5
It was of its time and tries to be satirical, without ever really being clever or funny. I liked it well enough for what it is, though groaned at most attempts at jokes. Moore pursued the ideas in a better fashion; but, he also used them with characters who had the weight of history to thm (in many cases), rather than badly named pastiches. It isn't Superduperman, which Moore has cited as a huge influence on him. I kind of got the feeling that Mayer was trying for that; but was neither Harvey Kurtzman nor Wally Wood. I was talking Grant Morrison's Supergods, not Robert Mayer's Superfolks. I haven't read Mayer's book in probably 20 years and have only the vaguest recollection of it.
Supergods was so dreadful I lost a lot of respect for Morrison after reading it.
Cody, you are at a disadvantage because you read Superfolks post-Moore. Pre-Moore, the book was very different. Sure, even as a youth I knew the jokes were lame and juvenile even by my standards. But it wedded the Mad Comics-deconstructive plot to a presentation which was (essentially) a dramatic one, and a realistically presented middle-aged reconciliation plot to a superhero story. For all its flaws, at the time it was mind-bending and I'm not surprised it'd have influenced Moore.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 19, 2020 14:42:43 GMT -5
Supergods is the single worst book I’ve read in decades. Now there's a strong opinion! Can you elaborate? I found it a helpful primer on Grant Morrion's particular brand of bonkers that made his various series more intelligible. The first part of the book was a facile history of comics that had numerous errors and added nothing of value to the study. The second part was the type of navel-gazing that I generally have zero interest in reading. It may well be that I simply don't find Morrison as interesting as he thinks he is. I don't find anyone as interesting as Morrison thinks he is, because, as far as I can tell, he's firmly convinced he's the center of the universe. And it's not that I don't like some of his work. Some of it is brilliant (about half his run on Animal Man, Flex Mentallo), some is competent and some is pretty shite. He's just not nearly as important as he thinks he is.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 19, 2020 14:51:24 GMT -5
The Journal became a regular source for attacks on the mainstream, personal vendettas and other tabloidy content, which drew attention; but undercut their stated mission to elevate the artform into something greater and on par with classic literature and film. If you could get past the rhetoric and propaganda, there were some really great interviews in the Journal, much of it conducted by Groth. I always figured that Groth was trying to make himself into a cult of personality, using shock value to get attention. Don't knock it! People have won presidential elections the same way! Anyway, he'd try to bring attention to himself in order to get people to notice Fantagraphics. It was all very Stan Lee-esque, now that I think about it. Sidenote: We Told You So (The Oral History of Fantagraphics) is one of my all time favorite books about comics.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 19, 2020 15:46:15 GMT -5
It was of its time and tries to be satirical, without ever really being clever or funny. I liked it well enough for what it is, though groaned at most attempts at jokes. Moore pursued the ideas in a better fashion; but, he also used them with characters who had the weight of history to thm (in many cases), rather than badly named pastiches. It isn't Superduperman, which Moore has cited as a huge influence on him. I kind of got the feeling that Mayer was trying for that; but was neither Harvey Kurtzman nor Wally Wood. I was talking Grant Morrison's Supergods, not Robert Mayer's Superfolks. I haven't read Mayer's book in probably 20 years and have only the vaguest recollection of it. Sorry, I had just woken up and was a bit groggy. No, yeah; Supergods was piffle. I like some of Morrison's writing; but, every time I read or watch an interview with him he just puts me off. To me, he always comes across like a poser who is trying to get a response out of an interviewer or audience. He's a very talented writer; though, like I say, I only like "some" of it. I think Moore plays to the audience, too; but, somehow, it seems more like authentic eccentricity, rather than a projected personna. Well, until he starts the snake god nonsense and then I just think he is taking the p!$$.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 19, 2020 15:55:57 GMT -5
The Journal became a regular source for attacks on the mainstream, personal vendettas and other tabloidy content, which drew attention; but undercut their stated mission to elevate the artform into something greater and on par with classic literature and film. If you could get past the rhetoric and propaganda, there were some really great interviews in the Journal, much of it conducted by Groth. I always figured that Groth was trying to make himself into a cult of personality, using shock value to get attention. Don't knock it! People have won presidential elections the same way! Anyway, he'd try to bring attention to himself in order to get people to notice Fantagraphics. It was all very Stan Lee-esque, now that I think about it. Sidenote: We Told You So (The Oral History of Fantagraphics) is one of my all time favorite books about comics. Oh, no totally; Groth is the same kind of bombast that he decries. He was more than willing to publish Drek (literally) in order to put out the more prestigious things, which was no different than DC publishing Batman or Justice League to produce Watchmen, or kill Superman and give us Sandman. That's always been the deal with the devil for any publishing house and (used to be) film studio. You did the commercial stuff to pay for the artistic piece that would gain critical acclaim and study, but wasn't going to find a mass audience, right away. I haven't read We Told You So; but, I have read a few insider accounts that describe a frat boy atmosphere and a lot self-important twaddle. Then again, I've read accounts of DC and Marvel editorial and other companies and most have some kind of backstage drama, territorial wars, massive egos, knives in backs, etc.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 26, 2020 17:55:54 GMT -5
Fantagraphics early comic offerings are rather like other experiments going on in the burgeoning indie worl: eclectic. In many ways, Fantagraphics was trying to copy the European formula of self-contained works, though they tried a mixture of magazine format comics and albums. Their first offering was The Flames of Gyro, by veteran artist Jay Disbrow. Disbrow studied art through the Famous Artists School correspondence course and worked in the early 50s for LB Cole, doing many pre-Code horror stories. He would also work on education comics, a comic feature for Sunday School distribution (Junior Life), worked as a reporter and a technical illustrator for the US government. Here, he brings his love of Alex Raymond's Flash Gordon to life, via his own Valgar Gunar. The book is both an homage and a modern take on the great space opera/fantasy epics of old, with a valiant hero, imperiled love interest, and nasty villains... Gil Kane's Savage is a reprint and somewhat modification of Kane's earlier graphic novel experiment, His Name is Savage, a hard-boiled crime story with a character based on Lee Marvin, in Point Break. Kane's hero is an espionage agent and trouble shooter and the story is well above what could pass under the code. the script was from Archie Goodwin, who originally wrote under the pseudonym Robert Franklin; but was credited under his own name, here. A cyborg retired general kidnaps the president and impersonates him at the UN General Assembly, in an attempt at sparking a war. It was noted for the level of violence that included a crushed hand, in gory detail. Changes were made in the cover (the original featured a pretty dead on Le Marvin) and to typeface used in the story, as well as the additions of interviews, including a "Shop Talk" between Will Eisner and Gil Kane (from the Spirit magazine). Hugo was from Milton Knight and was a mature take on classic funny animal stories and fairytales, featuring the jester Hugo. The magazine had a mixture of short stories and a second issue is advertised, but not published. The feature did return for 3 comics, later on. I've not seen the material, though the style of the cover art brings to mind Terry-Toons, with characters like Mighty Mouse and Heckle & Jeckle Survivors is an early story in the Jeremiah series from Belgian cartoonist Hemann (Hermann Huppen). It features a post-apocalyptic world and the people trying to stay alive within it. People are living in isolated outposts, behind walled cities and forts, in scientific labs and other defended communities, apart and wary of outsiders. Racial divides sparked the wars that led to this state. The ultimate theme of the series is hope and the rebuilding of something better, as Jeremiah travels the countryside and works with disparate groups. It struggled to find an American audience, as other editions were published via Catalan Communications and via Malibu's Platinum Editions, with its partnership with Strip Art Features. It would find some success at Dark Horse. Los Tejanos is from Jack Jackson, and, like later work from Tim truman, highlights lesser known periods of American history. In this case, it is the tale of Juan Seguin, a Tejano (Texan of Mexican descent) who originally fights with the Texas revolutionaries; but, is driven out by racism and ends up fighting with his former enemies in the Mexican Army. This work helped pave the way for such things as Truman's Wilderness and Tecumseh (with Alan Eckart), not to mention the much later illustrated version of Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States. Don Rosa's Comics and Stories reprints his Pertwillaby Papers, comic adventures featuring Lance Pertwillaby, which had appeared in the fanzine Rocket's Blast Comicollector. Rosa created these and other strips, both in college and after, before landing his dream job, with Gladstone, producing Uncle Scrooge and other Disney Ducks comics. While not having the richness of Scrooge McDuck, Rosa's work is still steeped in the lessons he learned from the pages of Carl Barks. There is another early Fantagraphics comic that gained huge notoriety, but we will save that for next time. Instead, we will look at a work that followed, that gained some acclaim for Fantagraphics, though not quite the same long term success. That comic was Dalgoda. Dalgoda (reverse the name) is a science fiction tale, from Jan Strnad and Dennis Fujitake. It is very European in style, with rather sparse linework from Fujitake, though with a densely populated visual world. It tells the story of an alien who comes to Earth from the Canida system and crash lands in the ocean. His ship is discovered by the UNS Thompson (I suppose it means United Naval Ship, though it should be USS for an active vessel, or USNR, for a Naval Reserve ship) and brought aboard and some sailors are sent inside, where they encounter the alien, who brandishes a weapon and asks for Kneedam. The captain calls for Midshipman Ravencraft, the only First Contact-experienced crewmember. Ravencraft is insubordinate, but confident and is immediately at odds with the skipper's methods. However, he defuses the situation, as Kneedam is a legal representative of Canida, after a past encounter, where a Canidan was taken into custody and shot by a fearful human. Our alien, Dalgoda, is here to warn earth of the mutual threat of the Nimp, a hostile race bent on conquest and destruction. Ravencraft is made Dalgoda's minder, against the wishes of Kneedam and the World Security Council, but, together, they navigate this strange new world, for Dalgoda. Obviously, Dalgoda is a canine alien and he is given many features, physically and character traits, of dogs. Posey Ravencraft is a belligerent human who was forced by circumstances in signing up as a midshipman to make ends meet. he is anti-authoritarian, and very intelligent, rather lacking in diplomacy, though his honesty makes him bond well with Dalgoda. Earth promises an armada to aid the Canidans, though things aren't exactly top notch. They soon meet Gunner Hathaway, and old friend of Posey's and deal with a parasitic plant, which attacks dogs, in their second issue. The armada is bult with derelict ships, aided by the sub-space drive that Dalgoda brought from Canida, to bring the Earth up technologically, to aid in the fight. the series mixes different sci-fi influences, from exploratory sci-fi, like Star Trek, to more satirical looks at life, via the culture clash of Dalgoda nd the humans, to politics and military sci-fi. Also appearing, starting with issue #2, is Grimwood's Daughter, from Strnad and Kevin nowlan. This is a fantasy tale, with Nowlan's striking visuals. Dennis Fujitake brings a very European look to things, with a style that seems a mix of Moebius and, Undergrounds, and animation. One could see this both as a feature in Heavy Metal and an adult animation feature, on the old Midnight Movie circuits (which the Heavy Metal Feature appeared on, along with things like Fritz the Cat, Wizards, The Wall, Flesh Gordon and other flights of animated fantasy and live-action bizarre) Alas, this being Fantagraphics foray into color comics, it proved far more expensive and was never more than a critical darling and cult book. It was cancelled after 8 issues , where it was transferred to the anthology Flesh and Bones, for another 4 issues, alongside Alan Moore and Steve Parkhouse's Bojeffries Saga, originally published in Warrior Magazine, in the UK (alongside Marvelman, V For Vendetta, Laser Eraser & Pressbutton, and several other features). Sadly, we did not get a conclusion to the story. Most of Fantagraphics wares would be black & white, as it was more economical for a small publisher. This was not unusual for many independent publishers and fantagraphics would be in the mix for the Black & White Boom that followed the success of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (and the longer success of Cerebus, which had grown to be a major work), when everyone was looking for the next big thing and first issues of black & white comics were selling big numbers. Just before that, though, a self-published magazine, from three brothers, would prove to be a longer lasting success, which continues today. next time, we will look at Los Bros Hernandez (technically, Los Hermanos Hernandez) and their classic showcase, Love & Rockets. Come on back for a discussion of Maggie & Hopey, Palomar, women's wrestling and more, as we explore what could be called the greatest post-Punk comic of the 80s and beyond.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 26, 2020 18:03:55 GMT -5
ps a Bit about Dennis Fujitake. he worked in the fanzine world and made a name with Dalgoda. he would go on to do covers for The Comics Journal, work on the comic adaptations of Kieth Laumer's retief series and on Elfquest, for the Pinis.
Jan Strnad was also active in the fanzine world, since the 60s and has worked with Richard Corben, as well as on things like Sword of the Atom, with Gil Kane, and the Str=ar Wars comics, at Dark Horse. he worked for Disney Animation, on tv (Goof troop and Aladdin) and has self published prose novels. The name, by the way, is of Czech origin
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Post by Calidore on Feb 26, 2020 19:41:40 GMT -5
Loved Dalgoda. Grimwood's Daughter was pretty good also, with Kevin Nowlan's striking art being a highlight. Strnad also wrote another of my favorite hidden gems, Stalkers. It's a black-humored future satire in the vein of Paul Verhoeven's Robocop. www.cbr.com/comics-you-should-own-stalkers/
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Post by mikelmidnight on Feb 27, 2020 13:57:03 GMT -5
Los Tejanos is from Jack Jackson, and, like later work from Tim truman, highlights lesser known periods of American history. In this case, it is the tale of Juan Seguin, a Tejano (Texan of Mexican descent) who originally fights with the Texas revolutionaries; but, is driven out by racism and ends up fighting with his former enemies in the Mexican Army. This work helped pave the way for such things as Truman's Wilderness and Tecumseh (with Alan Eckart), not to mention the much later illustrated version of Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States. I don't have a lot of these, but I did collect Dalgoda at the time, and I own most if not all of Jaxon's historical graphic novels.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 7, 2020 19:47:05 GMT -5
Now, it is time to discuss Fantagraphics crowning achievement in publishing, Love and Rockets. Love and Rockets was formed by Daniel Ash, David J and Kevin Haskins, after the break up of Bauhaus... Wait, what the heck does that have to do with comics?Comics? Oh, right the comic book Love and Rockets! Well, there is a connection, as the band took their name from the comic (as did a few other bands, in that period). Ball of Confusion is the better song; but, speaking as a leg man, I preferred the video for So Alive. But, I digress...... For the story of Love and Rockets, we have to go back to 1953, for the birth of Mario Hernandez, 1957 (for Gilbert) and 1959 (Jaime). Los bros hernandez were 3 of 6 children, in a Mexican-American family, who grew up, primarily, in Oxnard, California. Their mother was a great lover of comics, in her youth and she fed her children's voracious love of comics. Los Bros soon began writing and drawing their own comics. Mario, as the oldest, discovered girls and moved on a bit, while Gilbert and Jaime continued creating. Mario was impressed with their work and self-published a comic collecting some of their stories, plus some contributions of his own and they titled it Love and Rockets. They sent a copy of the black & white publication to the Comics Journal, for Gary Groth to review and ended up with a deal to publish the comic through Fantagraphics. That first issued was reprinted, with a color cover, which began the legend. Jaime's cover is both striking and mysterious, grabbing your attention and stimulating your curiosity about what resides inside. true to the title, what we find is a wild mix of the mundane lives of different characters and plenty of sci-fi imagery and plot. Somehow, it all pulls together, largely because of the enthusiasm and talent of Los Bros. Here, too, we first meet Jaime's seminal characters Maggie and Hopey. Maggie is a young female mechanic, who works alongside Rand Race. Maggie aunt is a world champion lady wrestler, but Maggie lacks that level of confidence. She rooms with best friend Hopey. We later see them with their friends, in their world of Hoppers, a bario where they and their friends live, work, and go to see punk bands, without sci-fi hover bikes. Gilbert takes us on a psychedelic trip with BEM, while we also meet Maggie & Hopey's friend, penny century a dreamer who wants to be a superhero. It's all a bizarre blend of real life and sci-fi/fantasy, but it is grounded by vibrant female characters who live and breath on the page. There are male characters, such as ace Prosolar mechanic Rand Race and Penny's husband, the incredibly wealthy HR Costigan (who has horns). However, it is in the female characters that Love and Rockets finds its true glory. maggie and Hopey are eternal friends, but like all friends, have their ups and downs. Maggie lacks self-esteem and is rather oppressed by her family. Her aunt is champion wrestler Vicki Glory, women's world champion and trainer of future lady wrestlers. Hopey plays bass in various punk bands and is a magnet for trouble. Penny century is a bombshell who wants nothing more than to be a superhero. Gilbert presented us with Luba, a strong woman in a Latin American pueblo of Palomar, who rises to become mayor. In the early issues, the brothers are finding their way with the characters, especially Jaime. Maggie's "Mechanics" stories feature her working with Rand Race and travelling to Africa, where she becomes embroiled in political upheaval. Jaime would soon leave behind the sci-fi window dressing and settle down on the meatier real world lives of Maggie & Hopey and their friends. He indulges his love of both Jack Kirby and Archie comics, as his Locas stories give us a feeling for what Archie could be, if done for an adult audience. Maggie and Hopey deal with life and death (their friend Speedy Ortiz), family (as we meet Maggie's aunt Vicki Glory and her rival, women's wrestler and secret agent Rena Titanon. Los bros were big fans of pro wrestling and grew up with the Los Angeles promotion, under Mike LeBell, with stars like Roddy Piper, Chavo Guerrero and Keith Franks aka Adrian Adonis. Los Angeles also brought in many Mexican luchadores, such as Goliath and Black Gordman, Mil Mascaras, Los Villanos, and more. Jaime and Gilbert both blend in pro wrestling, though more Jaime, through the Locas stories, especially in the volume, House of Raging Women and the later Chester Square, as well as the spin-off mini-series, Whoa, Nellie! Gilbert settles on the stories of Luba and Palomar and builds an entire world around them, which has been critically compared to such Latin writers as Gabriel Garcia Marquez. I have to confess I am more drawn to Jaime's work and Maggie and Hopey, though I am intrigued by Gilbert's writing and plan to delve more into palomar, at some point, in my own reading. Los Bros quickly became critical darlings and the series brought decent sales, for an independent comic, though much of its fandom came from outside comic shops. Love & Rockets was a comic that could be found in used record and alternative music shops, university bookstores, and other places where you didn't necessarily find superheroes. If you were lucky, your LCS might stock a couple of copies, beyond subscribers, but, that required a store owner who was open to more than X-Men (and those did exist, in the early and mid-80s). People like Alan Moore and Frank Miller sung the praises of Los Bros in the fan press and CBG and other fanzines would talk about Los bros, as creators; but, you didn't see as many pieces on their work as you did crisis on Infinite Earths or Secret Wars. Apart from seeing the cover of the first issue in an ad in an early Jon Sable comic, I didn't come across and actual issue for several years, despite hearing "Los Bros" constantly, in interviews. I was slow to expand into the non-adventure side of the indie world; so sue me. It was a bit of a jump from Lone Wolf and Cub to Love and Rockets and Raw, or Eightball. I kind of had to find in in, through other things that brought me to that world. Los Bros started to get other offers and soon signed to handle Mister X, for Vortex, in a rather contentious relationship that saw the initial launch of the character and acrimonious split between the brothers and Vortex and them swearing off working on other people's characters (apart from things like tribute pin-ups. Los Bros made Love and Rockets an experimental playground and a world of real characters. their longer narratives would be peppered with short stories and one-offs. Fantagraphics would soon start collecting storylines into albus, in the European tradition, alternating between the brothers' storylines (one volume would be Jaime, another Gilbert). Jaime would appear in the 1988 documentary Comic Book Confidential, a supposed overview of comics that settles very quickly into the Undergrounds and Alternative comics from the late 60s on (with Kirby, Eisner, Kurtzman and other giants representing the mainstream). Several of the creators, including Jaime, narrate a story, as their visuals are seen on camera, and Jaime narrates a Locas story. A new Love & Rockets was always a treat, but, Los Bros began winding down on things by the mid-90s. They decided to bring an end to the series with their 50th issue. They decided to move on to other things, including spin-offs and other works. Gilbert devastated Palomar with an earthquake and Luba and her husband head to America to avoid hitmen. Gilbert would pick up their story in America, as Luba deals with the new land. Jaime continued to work with Maggie and Hopey, but more in supporting roles. After Love and Rockets shit down, Jaime brought out two miniseries, Penny century and Whoa, nellie! Penny century continues the adventures of its title character. Here we see a lot of 1950s sci-fi comic influences, as Penny's world is pure ATomic Age futurism. Meanwhile, Whoa, Nellie focuses on the story of Gina Bravo, and Maggie's cousin, Xochitl Nava, as they deal with their own friendship and evolution as a tag-team. Xochitl is married, with kids and lives under the shadow of her aunt, Vicki Glory. In the first issue, Xochitl, who wrestles as a heel, against the babyface Gina, wins a match to become the number one contender to Vicki's World Title. Her aunt proceeds to beat the tar out of her. She is ticked off because the real money draw would have been to face Gina. Gina just wants to team with Xochitl and struggles with acceptance, as she is a lesbian and Xochitl becomes uncomfortable around her. it takes time for the pair to come together; but, we see them resolve their personal issues and blossom in confidence and talent as a tag-team. I'm a wrestling fan and Jaime really captures the flavor of classic pro wrestling matches, with the see-saw drama, and he gets the technical aspects correct. For my money, this is the finest representation of pro wrestling in comics (apart from maybe the Tiger Mask manga, in Japan). Each issue also features pin-ups of various lady wrestlers, all fictional, but obviously inspired by real wrestlers or types of wrestlers. jaime even draws impressions of title belts that capture the look of the real things, without the heavy detail. he gives enough of an impression to capture the spirit of the art. Eventually, Gina and Xochitl get their wish and become Las Hermanas Asesinas... Look out Crush Gals! The pin-ups and some of the other aspects have the feel of old wrestling magazines, with pictures of the matches and pin-up shots of the wrestlers and their title belts (if any). Eventually, the brothers came back together to work on Love and Rockets, Volume 2. Jamie returned to Maggie & Hopey; but Beto had done what he had intended with both Palomar and Luba and moved onto new stories; mostly shorter pieces. This continued for 20 issues, but in a market less open than when they debuted. However, they had alternatives to just comic shop distribution, especially for their book collections. Fantagraphics moved on with publishing new material in album formats, with Love and Rockets: New Stories. 8 volumes were published in this format. in 2016, Fantagraphics returned with Volume IV of Love & rockets, returning to its magazine roots. Everyone seems to have their favorite when it comes to the brothers. As I said, i am drawn more to Jaime's work. His style is a bit flashier and more "mainstream", if that is truly possible for their work. Gilbert's line is a bit more primitive and illustrator-ish, though he changes it up, depending on his work. He is probably the better writer of the two, certainly in longer form stories. Jaime excels at moments and scenes and in his characters. Really, its like trying to choose a favorite ice cream in a shop of multiple flavors. Both brothers have created tremendously entertaining, powerful, and satisfying work. If I am giving short shift to Gilbert, it is because I have read less of his material (I'm working on that). Both Palomar and Locas were collected in mammoth omnibus books... As I reach the end, I realize I, like others, have all but excluded Mario. Mario pulled the material together for that original Love and Rockets comic and contributed to the magazine, over the years; but, it was really a vehicle for the work of Gilbert and Jaime. By his own admission, he lives in the shadow of his brothers' "genius," and seems fine with that. Family brought him into Love and Rockets and new family puled him away, but he would contribute its and pieces every few years. However, without him, there might not have been a Love and Rockets, even if there had been comics by Gilbert and Jaime Hernandez. Next, we continue our look at Fantagraphics, as they expand their publishing, including reprinting some John Byrne comics, of all things, and some stuff about a family, named Bradley.
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