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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Oct 15, 2017 8:29:27 GMT -5
^ I didn't think that sentence existed. I'm going downstairs to hug my small stack of issues Ditko Spideys and whisper "it's okay guys, he didn't mean it".
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Post by kirby101 on Oct 15, 2017 8:44:21 GMT -5
I recently saw the Spider-Man Art exhibit at the Society of Illustrators. Displayed were the four greatest pages in the history of Spider-man. Yes, the opening to Spider-man #33. Great doesn't even describe it.   |
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Post by james on Oct 15, 2017 11:33:53 GMT -5
I recently saw the Spider-Man Art exhibit at the Society of Illustrators. Displayed were the four greatest pages in the history of Spider-man. Yes, the opening to Spider-man #33. Great doesn't even describe it. [br Question? Where can i find of listing of said exhibits? I know most ate probsbly in NY or Chicago but Ive always wa tes to go to one. I live in DE. So closest to me would be Philadelphia. |
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Post by kirby101 on Oct 15, 2017 20:27:47 GMT -5
James, sorry don't know. The one I saw was at the Society of Illustrators in NY.
I usually see some great original art at conventions.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 9,571 
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Post by Confessor on Oct 16, 2017 2:49:24 GMT -5
I was never a fan of Ditko. Even his legendary Spider-man run , wasn't great to my eyes. Thank goodness I'm not the only one. It makes me sad that there are people like you guys out there in the world.   |
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 16, 2017 5:57:44 GMT -5
Sorry guys. I'll go as far as to say that the reason Spider-man is the famous hero he is, was the Stan Lee writing more than the Ditko art.
Romita Sr. will always be "my" Spider-man Artist.
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Post by dbutler69 on Oct 16, 2017 6:47:02 GMT -5
Sorry guys. I'll go as far as to say that the reason Spider-man is the famous hero he is, was the Stan Lee writing more than the Ditko art. Romita Sr. will always be "my" Spider-man Artist. I tend to agree. I think the series got better, not worse, when it went from Ditko to JRS. The common thread in these high quality comics is Stan Lee, though I know that Stan bashing has become somewhat fashionable. |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Oct 18, 2017 20:32:13 GMT -5
I will say Ditko was great and Romita was great. He cleaned up the art a bit...but you cannot tell me you look at ASM #33 and say that looks bad...least I hope you don't! Back on track of the topic, since I just read this. Spidey does not need saving from Ghost Rider in this one at all. There is a subway scene, but it is quite different.  |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 18, 2017 21:56:47 GMT -5
Sorry guys. I'll go as far as to say that the reason Spider-man is the famous hero he is, was the Stan Lee writing more than the Ditko art. Romita Sr. will always be "my" Spider-man Artist. I always counter with - "I think the artist is more important than the writer, but - and this is going to shock you - when I watch a movie I ACTUALLY think that the acting, directing, and cinematography combined are more important than the script writing." Of course in Ditko's case this isn't true because he did ALL the plotting for most of the run - so he did most of the screenwriting too. By the end Lee and Ditko had no contact. Ditko turned in a completed, drawn, and plotted script and Stan just filled in the words. But actually I'd credit Romita's art more than either of them, actually. The Ditko Spider-man is my favorite superhero comic run of all time, and Ditko is a far better comic artist. But he was s a psychological horror artist first and foremost - and Romita's incredibly handsome advertising-quality art was simpler and more surface, but a lot more fun. It was kind of like the FRIENDS of superhero comics, and Romita's stuff became the model that Spider creators copied. (Which is probably for the best.) |
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Post by profh0011 on Oct 17, 2020 21:10:12 GMT -5
I always counter with - "I think the artist is more important than the writer, but - and this is going to shock you - when I watch a movie I ACTUALLY think that the acting, directing, and cinematography combined are more important than the script writing." Of course in Ditko's case this isn't true because he did ALL the plotting for most of the run - so he did most of the screenwriting too. By the end Lee and Ditko had no contact. Ditko turned in a completed, drawn, and plotted script and Lee just filled in the words. When one talks about "plotting" and "dialogue", BOTH are "WRITING". By rights, they should always be done by one person, not two. But unquestionably, the "plotting" -- writing the STORY-- is by far the most important part, because without that, you could not have the dialogue or the artwork.
Steve Ditko wrote ALL the stories in his 41 issues.
Ditko also wrote his own dialogue, on separate sheets of paper, which his editor could use or alter as he saw fit.
As for story IDEAS... early-on, several were supplied to him by his editor. HOWEVER, in every case, these were supplied TO the editor... by JACK KIRBY.
The whole concept of the series was supplied by Kirby. However, Ditko noticed it was veering too close to THE FLY, which Kirby had previously done for Archie, and so Ditko was assigned to make enough changes to avoid any possible lawsuits. HE DID. Boy, did he!
I have no doubt that story in ASM #1 where Spider-Man has to rescue John Jameson's space capsule while it's in flight was a Kirby idea. It's just too wild for a "down-to-Earth" character as Ditko made Spider-Man.
I'm also convinced Kirby came up with The Sandman-- because Kirby made a point of re-using him in "The Human Torch" series, and then, "FANTASTIC FOUR". It's unlikely Kirby would have used that character so often if he'd been Ditko's creation.
One that I find very amusing is... The Green Goblin. Kirby LOVED "alliterative" names like that. Legend has it Ditko's boss gave him a story idea about a movie crew filming in Egypt and uncovering the tomb of an ancient demon from the past, who came back to life. Ditko kept the name, but REJECTED the whole story outright as not being appropriate for the series. Instead, he made The Goblin a would-be gang leader.
What I find the most amusing about this is... when Ralph Bakshi, Lin Carter & Gray Morrow did the 2nd & 3rd seasons of the "SPIDER-MAN" cartoon show, they were constantly having Spider-Man face menaces completely outside his weight class. (Sort of like Batman in the "BRAVE AND THE BOLD" TV cartoons.) One of them was "Kotep, The Scarlet Sorcerer". The cartoon was advertised the week before as "Phantom from the Depths of Time" (a phrase that appeared in the story), but when broadcast, it was changed to "The Evil Sorcerer". It feels more like a DR. STRANGE than a SPIDER-MAN. When I read about The Green Goblin incident, I realized that somehow, Bakshi & co. had gotten wind of it, and basically USED Kirby's unused idea for the TV show.
It wasn't the first time. Earlier that season, was "Menace from the Bottom of the World". For decades, I thought that was a really weird take on The Mole Man from the FANTASTIC FOUR comics and cartoons. I was wrong. It was actually a very authentic adaptation of "One Of Our Skyscrapers Is Missing", from ADVENTURES OF THE FLY #2, by Jack Kirby & Al Williamson. Yep. They swiped a FLY comic and turned it into a SPIDER-MAN cartoon!
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Post by profh0011 on Oct 17, 2020 21:13:37 GMT -5
One of my favorite covers NEVER happened inside the comic-- and, in fact, NEVER happened anywhere in the entire run of the series!! It should have. The story would have been a HELL of a lot more interesting if it had.
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Post by profh0011 on Oct 17, 2020 21:16:00 GMT -5
Hilararious but true: Gene Colan SWIPED an earlier John Buscema cover...
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Post by kirby101 on Oct 17, 2020 22:04:09 GMT -5
A swipe is when one artist copies another artist. Where you can see figures are the same. This is just using similar layout. One that has been used more than a few times.
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Post by profh0011 on Oct 17, 2020 23:10:01 GMT -5
Semantics. FAH!
IT'S THE SAME SCENE!
And that scene NEVER happens in the entire run of the CM series.
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Post by kirby101 on Oct 18, 2020 8:56:47 GMT -5
Screaming still doesn't make it a swipe.
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