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Post by Nowhere Man on Sept 24, 2017 13:40:12 GMT -5
I'm currently reading some selected runs* from late Bronze Age DC and something I've noticed with writers like Len Wein and Steve Englehart, is that their dialog and plots seemed to be campier and cornier than the work they were doing at Marvel at or around the same time. I recently finished Wein's famous "Seven Soldiers of Victory" and was surprised at how silly his dialog was. Do you think this was intentional? Were they simply trying write in the spirit of DC's more lighthearted approach since the 50's? Or do you think it was simply the work of a lot of out-of-touch editors at DC? I notice that around 1977, particularly when Levitz and a few others start taking the editorial reigns, the writing starts to improve.
*(What I'm slowly working my way through right now...)
Aquaman by Jim Aparo
Batman Comics (1977-1985 or to Crisis)
DC Comics Presents (issues with Garcia-Lopez, Starlin & Perez)
Flash by Bates and Infantino (the Trial of the Flash arc)
Green Lantern by Wein, Gibbons and Englehart
Jonah Hex (only the Garcia-Lopez issues)
Justice League (#139-150 & #183-200)
Legion of Super-Heroes (Darksied saga only)
Superman Comics (only issues drawn by Garcia-Lopez and Gil Kane plus the Ali and Shazam specials)
Teen Titans (will finally read all of the Wolfman/Perez run. Only read the first year or so and its been awhile)
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Post by batusi on Sept 24, 2017 14:05:37 GMT -5
"Campier and Cornier"? perhaps, but you have to consider the times of the writings. I prefer some of those to the more current crap being printed. Batman was hit or miss in the mid 70's onward and I was NOT a big fan, Legion/New Teen Titans, Aquaman I was into big time!  |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Sept 24, 2017 16:51:13 GMT -5
I'm currently reading some selected runs* from late Bronze Age DC and something I've noticed with writers like Len Wein and Steve Englehart, is that their dialog and plots seemed to be campier and cornier than the work they were doing at Marvel at or around the same time. I recently finished Wein's famous "Seven Soldiers of Victory" and was surprised at how silly his dialog was. Do you think this was intentional? Were they simply trying write in the spirit of DC's more lighthearted approach since the 50's? Or do you think it was simply the work of a lot of out-of-touch editors at DC? I notice that around 1977, particularly when Levitz and a few others start taking the editorial reigns, the writing starts to improve. Huh. Not sure. I never connected with any of Englehart's '70s DC work (except for Night of the Stalker which is the best Batman story ever) but the two Steves are my favorite Marvel writers of the decade. On the other hand - I vastly prefer Wein's JLA, Phantom Stranger and Swamp Thing to anything I've read of his Marvel work. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Sept 24, 2017 18:08:22 GMT -5
I don't see it either. I like both writers' work for both companies, especially Wein's. I do agree that the writing at DC improves after '78 or so, which I attribute to the influence of new publisher Jenette Kahn, whose previous experience in magazine publishing gave her a higher standard for plotting and wordsmithing than had become the norm at DC.
Cei-U!
I summon the lazy Indian summer afternoon!
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 24, 2017 21:03:05 GMT -5
I don't see it. For Len, his JLA stuff was earlier in his career and still under DC's mandate of kid-friendly. By the time he is at Marvel, he had done more mature work and the market was aiming older. I don't see campy in his Batman work or Swamp Thing or any of his mystery comic stories. JLA was actually more serious with Wein, than it had been. Definitely don't see that with Engelhart.
For that time, period, in general, the more mature writing was on the fringe titles, like House of Mystery and Master of Kung Fu, for a couple of examples. The more mainstream the work, the more broad the storytelling (again, in general). Those "fringe" titles usually had less oversight or more supportive oversight; so, they experimented more. After a while, Marvel had the inmates running the asylum and almost no one said boo to any of the writers. The revolving EIC door led most to writer/editor deals, where no one could edit their stuff; but, a lot of them were pretty much doing that already.
DC was stricter; but, Joe Orlando, Joe Kubert, Dick Giordano and Archie Goodwin were known for encouraging creativity and more adventurous ideas.
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Post by berkley on Sept 24, 2017 22:06:18 GMT -5
The only DC Englehart I've read was his brief stint on Mister Miracle, which was too short to really say much about, though I thought it was good while it lasted. I plan to read his Batman with Marshall Rogers, his JLS run, and a few other things once I track down the back issues, but it'll be hard for them to match his 70s Marvel book just because I don't like the DC characters as much as the Marvel ones he wrote. The JLA, for example, I would only be reading because it's Englehart.
I do agree that DC started to look more attractive to me as a reader some time in the late 70s - partly because of the arrival of some of my favourite Marvel writers like Marv Wolfman. Then of course you had the Alan Moore books a few years later.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Sept 25, 2017 1:27:01 GMT -5
It might just be faulty perception on my part, but my memory seems to be that Wein's writing on the Hulk (been years since I read his run) was a bit more "modern" and less campy than his work on JLA, which wasn't that much earlier. Certainly by the time he's into the mid to late 70's his writing is much better. It might just be the nature of the JLA itself (probably the most mainstream of mainstream DC books) but Englehart's writing on Batman, from the same period, is simply superior in my eyes.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 10:27:55 GMT -5
Maybe it's hard not to be campy or corny when you or the people around you were dressed like this...  and your primary readership dressed like this...  but then hey it was the 70s right... -M |
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Post by Cei-U! on Sept 25, 2017 12:26:45 GMT -5
"Plaid Stallions" is a great name for a bad '70s cover band.
Cei-U!
I summon the not-so-fond memories!
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Post by badwolf on Sept 25, 2017 13:15:27 GMT -5
I enjoyed the JLA of that period, what I've read of it. Would like to get one of the collections that's out there, but I haven't yet.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 14:08:29 GMT -5
70's were known to me as the Bell Bottoms Era and my Mom brought me one of those slacks and I hated them ...
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Sept 25, 2017 14:16:27 GMT -5
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Post by berkley on Sept 25, 2017 17:54:28 GMT -5
I remember running to the radio to turn up the volume the first time I heard that song.
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Post by Phil Maurice on Sept 25, 2017 18:52:16 GMT -5
I remember running to the radio to turn up the volume the first time I heard that song. Good hustle, but I think you're supposed to crawl across the floor.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 21:21:19 GMT -5
I'm currently reading some selected runs* from late Bronze Age DC and something I've noticed with writers like Len Wein and Steve Englehart, is that their dialog and plots seemed to be campier and cornier than the work they were doing at Marvel at or around the same time. Camping & corn? Never saw any scenes like this in a DC comic:
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