|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2017 22:16:53 GMT -5
I am rereading through McCloud's three treatises on comics, and when I do, I always start jonesing to talk about them with other comic readers, creators, fans, etc. But before I launch into talking about any of the content, I was curious who here had read any of these three volumes. When I start to sit down to create things, whether it's making comics, writing prose or poetry, or just illustrating/drawing, I always end up reading a lot of "shop" books, basically to get me to look at what I am doing with fresh eyes as I am doing it, which always helps in the editing process, if not in the creative process itself (but it often does help there too). It doesn't have to be about the creative endeavor I am involved with (i,e, I read art books when writing prose, books about crafting stories when drawing or whatever), it's the act of getting me to think about the act of creating an d how I go about it that is important. An offshoot is that every time I dive into these types of books, it also affects how I approach the experience of created material (whether it be prose, comics, art or music) too. I've read Understanding Comics several times, and just finished rereading it a few days ago. I am currently rereading Reinventing Comics, but it is only my second time reading it, but I am already finding lots of things in it I want to discuss. I have only skimmed through Making Comics once. I've been reading other things* on the creative process recently as well, and these will probably inform my input in any discussion on McCloud I have. However, I want to talk McCloud, so who's read them? -M PS you can check out McCloud's website for more. * including: Burne Hogarth's Dynamic Anatomy Write or Wrong by Dirk Manning Screenplay the Foundations of Screen Writing by Syd Thrift Worlds of Wonder: Writing Science Fiction and Fantasy by David Gerrold |
|
Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,919 
|
Post by Crimebuster on Sept 29, 2017 22:45:27 GMT -5
I have read all three, though not for awhile.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Sept 29, 2017 22:54:46 GMT -5
I've read all three.
I know where my copies of 1 and 3 are, but I don't know where 2 is. But then, I think even McCloud kinda rated that one as not so great.
|
|
|
|
Post by String on Sept 30, 2017 9:58:32 GMT -5
Read and enjoyed all three.
I'm not sure if it is actually used in this way but Understanding Comics should be used in schools and colleges as a educational text book, it's that informative. With his second volume, considering the current state of digital comics and such, I can see where McCloud was ahead of the curve at that time in gauging the possible uses and consequences of using this 'new' medium. The third volume has so much more detail on the actual mechanics of the craft, it's really amazing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rob Allen on Sept 30, 2017 12:16:02 GMT -5
I'm not sure if it is actually used in this way but Understanding Comics should be used in schools and colleges as a educational text book Oh, it is. The Comix-scholars list was discussing it recently. Some people wish McCloud had cited his sources more like an academic book, but they recognize that it wasn't written as a scholarly work. |
|
|
|
Post by badwolf on Sept 30, 2017 17:32:29 GMT -5
I've read the first one. I've had the second one for years but haven't read it yet, and even though I thought the first was great, don't know that it is going to happen.
|
|
shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,376
|
Post by shaxper on Oct 1, 2017 10:42:59 GMT -5
I enjoy skimming Understanding Comics. There are so many nuggets of brilliant insight throughout that it lends itself to bathroom reading, so to speak. I've only actually read it from beginning to end twice.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 22:47:21 GMT -5
I'm not going to add another poll, but by comparison, how many have read the Eisner trilogy of books about comics that inspired McCloud to do his thing on the matter?
Comics & Sequential Art (1985)
Graphic Storytelling and Visual Narrative (1996)
Expressive Anatomy for Comics and Narrative (2008)
I own and have read the first 2, and have borrowed the third from the library on several occasions and skimmed through and reads parts that caught my eye. I need to get around to adding it to my comics library.
Thoughts on how the two groups of books stack up?
My main comment is that Eisner is speaking expressly to people looking to create comics mostly, while McCloud is reaching to a more general audience (at least in the first 2 volumes), but that Eisner is still accessible for the wider audience as well.
-M
|
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Oct 4, 2017 0:03:06 GMT -5
I haven't read any of these so I'm curious to hear what people think of them in general and specifically how the McClouds compare to the Eisners. I have a copy of the first McCloud book but never seem to get around to it. In fact, if the Eisner books cover more or less the same ground, I think I'd like to find and read those first, because there's something about McCloud's style that turns me off.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 23:34:17 GMT -5
I finished my reread of Reinventing Comics this evening, and am about to embark on a read of Making Comics.
I liked the first half of Reinventing Comics quite a bit. McCloud explored some of the 12 revolutions and was quite prescient in some of them (many of them) but I think underestimated the regressive backlash of the remaining hardcore audience to the evolution of comics in those directions (I am thinking in particular of the backlash against diversity in comics and it being blamed for the loss of sales at Marvel in particular here) and just how much of a stranglehold that hardcore Wednesday Warrior audience had on the direct market, especially so some 15-20 years after he wrote it. The second half, exploring the future of digital in comics was more interesting the first time around than it was 15-20 years after the fact. I think McCloud underestimated the pace of change in digital and internet technology the willingness of the audience to accept something other than print to get their comic fix, and overestimated the willingness of the market to accept alterations to accept changed to the format of the delivery of comics. Instead of a promise of things to come it was meant to be, it was like reading a eulogy of what might have been, which makes the current state of the market all the more frustrating (and to me senseless in many ways as it was brought upon itself by those who purport to be the biggest fans of comics, but that's a discussion for another thread).
-M
|
|
|
|
Post by Dizzy D on Oct 11, 2017 4:01:38 GMT -5
Had a discussion with a film teacher recently and he noted that Understanding Comics was also an essential part of his curriculum, because a lot of the things McCloud explains apply to any work that combines image with text/sound and editing between different scenes.
|
|
|
|
Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 12, 2017 2:31:52 GMT -5
I finished my reread of Reinventing Comics this evening, and am about to embark on a read of Making Comics. I liked the first half of Reinventing Comics quite a bit. McCloud explored some of the 12 revolutions and was quite prescient in some of them (many of them) but I think underestimated the regressive backlash of the remaining hardcore audience to the evolution of comics in those directions (I am thinking in particular of the backlash against diversity in comics and it being blamed for the loss of sales at Marvel in particular here) and just how much of a stranglehold that hardcore Wednesday Warrior audience had on the direct market, especially so some 15-20 years after he wrote it. The second half, exploring the future of digital in comics was more interesting the first time around than it was 15-20 years after the fact. I think McCloud underestimated the pace of change in digital and internet technology the willingness of the audience to accept something other than print to get their comic fix, and overestimated the willingness of the market to accept alterations to accept changed to the format of the delivery of comics. Instead of a promise of things to come it was meant to be, it was like reading a eulogy of what might have been, which makes the current state of the market all the more frustrating (and to me senseless in many ways as it was brought upon itself by those who purport to be the biggest fans of comics, but that's a discussion for another thread). -M Huh. I haven't read "Reinventing" since it came out (ish) and I was wondering how it held up. It's been more than a decade since I looked at any of these, but I remember a lot of Understanding Comics, the core thesis of Reinventing Comics, and... I'm not sure if I read Making Comics. I remember a little bit about Comics and Sequential Art but I think I didn't "read" so much as "Seriously flip through." I didn't know the other two Eisner Books existed. I did just finish the Brian Michael Bendis guide to creating comics. I'm sure that's basically the same thing.  |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 11:46:18 GMT -5
I finished my reread of Reinventing Comics this evening, and am about to embark on a read of Making Comics. I liked the first half of Reinventing Comics quite a bit. McCloud explored some of the 12 revolutions and was quite prescient in some of them (many of them) but I think underestimated the regressive backlash of the remaining hardcore audience to the evolution of comics in those directions (I am thinking in particular of the backlash against diversity in comics and it being blamed for the loss of sales at Marvel in particular here) and just how much of a stranglehold that hardcore Wednesday Warrior audience had on the direct market, especially so some 15-20 years after he wrote it. The second half, exploring the future of digital in comics was more interesting the first time around than it was 15-20 years after the fact. I think McCloud underestimated the pace of change in digital and internet technology the willingness of the audience to accept something other than print to get their comic fix, and overestimated the willingness of the market to accept alterations to accept changed to the format of the delivery of comics. Instead of a promise of things to come it was meant to be, it was like reading a eulogy of what might have been, which makes the current state of the market all the more frustrating (and to me senseless in many ways as it was brought upon itself by those who purport to be the biggest fans of comics, but that's a discussion for another thread). -M Huh. I haven't read "Reinventing" since it came out (ish) and I was wondering how it held up. It's been more than a decade since I looked at any of these, but I remember a lot of Understanding Comics, the core thesis of Reinventing Comics, and... I'm not sure if I read Making Comics. I remember a little bit about Comics and Sequential Art but I think I didn't "read" so much as "Seriously flip through." I didn't know the other two Eisner Books existed. I did just finish the Brian Michael Bendis guide to creating comics. I'm sure that's basically the same thing. I've read the Bendis book too, and it is informative for what it is. It really does have some good advice for people looking to start out and on the business/professional side of things, not so much on the craft side of things, but that business side is a maze many talented writers have no idea how to navigate, so some helpful advice on that end is welcome. There are other (and I would say in many ways better) guides to that side of the equation out there, but Bendis doe shave the unique perspective of someone who started out self-publishing, produced a lot of creator-owned stuff that got attention in the marketplace and then parlayed that into a role with one of the big 2 and into other mediums. I may not like some of the stuff Bendis has written, but I respect what he was able to do career-wise and that journey has given him some helpful insights for those looking to carve a career out of making comics (even if some of it is a how not to go about things lesson). -M |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2017 15:31:19 GMT -5
Finished reading Making Comics this afternoon. Very insightful, lots of food for thought. There's almost a throwaway (visual) essay in the final chapter about comic professionals discussing The Four Tribes of comic making that I found particularly thought-provoking and perhaps a little illuminating on the divide in classic and modern comic fans- McCloud's Four Tribes  in brief -classicist-focus on the beauty and craft/artistic value of comics -animist focuses on content over all else -formalist-focuses on experimentation and possibilities of the comic format over content itslelf -iconoclast-follows no rules but their personal muse and he positions them this way in graph, with adjacent tribes having commonalities and those diagonal to each other having far less in common  -I think most classic comic fans fall in the animist tribe with some appreciation of the Classicist tribe being common, but a lot of modern comic creators, especially the current crop of writers like Fraction, Gillen, Hickman, Bendis, and others have a lot more Formalist tendencies and approach comics differently than those in the animist camp, creative a disconnect between what animist fans expect and what formalist creators are trying to accomplish with comics they create. -M |
|
|
|
Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 24, 2017 14:42:55 GMT -5
Huh. I don't really differentiate between "craft" and "content." And I'm not quite sure what an "iconoclastic" example would be... I guess I view comics as a series of specific authorial choices, and EVERY aspect of comics - including insane formalist stuff like Elvis Road - is part of"craft" to me. |
|
