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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 26, 2018 7:21:56 GMT -5
I don't take it as argumentative, but rather engaging in dialogue. That's the point of this place, and no, we don't always agree with each other. The difference is that with Goodman, he saw what TYPE of books were selling and made adjustments. If Western comics are hot and you're still putting out Romance comics, then that's just bad business. However, putting out Two-Gun Kid for 18 months, then "killing" him and replacing him with a new Two-Gun Kid, then bringing back the original one and having two titles with one continuing the original numbering and the other with a new #1, then putting them together in a team-up book with a new #1 issue, then counting the issues from the two original series and adding them to the team-up book's number as they approach issue #100, then splitting them back into separate books with their own sidekicks in each with a new #1 for each, then creating a team of both Two-Gun Kids and the two sidekicks and continuing the numbering, then... That latter is what many of us are against. Fair enough, I do get how the renumbering can piss people off, I've just got to the stage where I'm buying the latest Avengers book irrespective of numbering, though to be fair more out of resignation than preference. Actually my preference would be a system like Mignola's Hellboy or Abe Sapien, where you have a succession of minis which are internally numbered ... #35 in a series for example, with the cover having issue 4 of 5. Hey Paste Pot Paul,
You had highlighted the part of my post about the Crisis. Yes, I can claim unequivocally, guaranteed, that if Marvel had a Crisis-type event, that yes, I would at least try it, if it truly meant they were doing a hard reboot. The key word here is hard
That's what Marvel keeps avoiding and dancing around with Marvel Now !, All-New All-Different Marvel, Marvel Legacy, and now Fresh Start Marvel, in what, a couple of years ? Really ? and it's all superficial and nothing really changes Tons of new # 1's that are nothing more than artificial manipulation of the market. Your mileage may vary, but I've been lied and misled from them for years now and I'm tired of it. Time will tell to see what Cebulski's reign is like. I still have huge respect for Axel Alonso and would love to hear someday the inside scoop of his reign at Marvel. There are people in both camps. Some, like yourself, are ok with what Marvel is doing, and if you do, then that's great, seriously, but others, like myself, don't, and we're voicing our opinion here of why. I'm not knocking the creators or even the stories because they obviously haven't been published yet. The return of the FF isn't here yet, but it's coming, and I'm genuinely anxious to read it and will probably try it at some point. Part of the appeal is that it's a single title. I like that. I don't have to buy a family of titles. For certain things I don't mind at all, like back in the day buying Legion of Super-Heroes, and Legionnaires, cause they were two different sets of characters, but obviously related. It made sense and I enthusiastically bought both and would do so today. Bloating has driven me away from other characters I really like including the huge Batman family pantheon. Obviously DC gets more mileage out of having a huge ton of Bat-characters, and great that people buy them, but I don't. I haven't bought Batman since Grant Morrison wrote him. Maybe under Cebulski all of this constant churning wraps up and is a thing of the past with a true Fresh Start, which would be great. I'm not one to get hot about general editorial direction. I'll buy a character I like, or story I've read good things about. I'm generally ok with them trying new directions though im happy to point out those that havent worked for me. As above the numbering means nothin to me, Im more concerned with getting cool stories. Im sad when some dont work...Nu52, Inhumans being pushed over theX-Men, Secret Empire...but thats reality, not everything works for everyone. One thing I have enjoyed over the last 5 years or so is the number of B titles Marvel have given us which work delightfully, from Hawkeye to Spider-Woman to Silver Surfer to Jessica Jones, and the absolute blast of Mighty Thor with Jane Foster. I'm not saying all their changes to Legacy heroes worked, (cough Sam Wilson cough) but there have been some good ones...yes even Doom as Iron Man...Im so sad to see Bendis go to DC(but thats an argument for another thread  ) They actually did this after Heroes Return in the early 2000's , but they just adopted the original numbering for that period until They rolled out new #1's. Too bad, they should have kept the Original numbering but I suspect that Management felt that it hurt the sales of the new #1's to have a 500 right underneath it. |
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Post by hondobrode on Feb 26, 2018 11:06:11 GMT -5
Agreed that the Hellboy numbering is the preferred method.
It sounds like that's what Marvel will be going with on some of its titles.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Feb 26, 2018 18:35:53 GMT -5
Agreed that the Hellboy numbering is the preferred method. It sounds like that's what Marvel will be going with on some of its titles. I've always enjoyed the Hellboy method, it'll say, "Hellboy 1955: Burning Season #1" on the cover and on the inside it'll say #20 in a series, so you get it both ways. |
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Post by hondobrode on Feb 27, 2018 1:51:10 GMT -5
Ok, so apparently I'm not the only person in fandom bemoaning the constant redoing of things at Marvel, specifically since Disney bought them in August of 2009.
Articles have pointed out the eras with dates.
I can't help but look back knowing, but hoping it wouldn't happen, that things would not be good with the buy.
I couldn't have guessed but in that time
The Heroic Age 2010
later that year comes Marvel Now !
All-New Marvel Now comes in 2013
All-New All-Different Marvel in 2015
Marvel Now 2.0 in 2016
followed by Marvel Legacy in 2017
and Fresh Start in 2018
That's 7 major relaunches in 8 years !
That's why some of us are frustrated.
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Post by hondobrode on Mar 1, 2018 1:17:18 GMT -5
Ok, much as I kvetch about current Marvel here, I'm actually interested in the Immortal Hulk title coming later by Al Ewing and Joe Bennett, two underrated creators.
If Fresh Start has more decent stuff like this, then I'll bite my tongue.
This might be worth trying.
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 1, 2018 4:52:30 GMT -5
Ok, so apparently I'm not the only person in fandom bemoaning the constant redoing of things at Marvel, specifically since Disney bought them in August of 2009. Articles have pointed out the eras with dates. I can't help but look back knowing, but hoping it wouldn't happen, that things would not be good with the buy. I couldn't have guessed but in that time The Heroic Age 2010 later that year comes Marvel Now ! All-New Marvel Now comes in 2013 All-New All-Different Marvel in 2015 Marvel Now 2.0 in 2016 followed by Marvel Legacy in 2017 and Fresh Start in 2018 That's 7 major relaunches in 8 years ! That's why some of us are frustrated. Because of all the renumbering , the last time I bought back issues I was forced to look at the year on the cover to make sure I wasn't rebuying the same book. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 1, 2018 8:38:19 GMT -5
yeah, I think that's the most annoying thing for me.... between restarts and multiple covers, it's now really hard to buy stuff and make sure you don't already have it
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2018 13:37:04 GMT -5
yeah, I think that's the most annoying thing for me.... between restarts and multiple covers, it's now really hard to buy stuff and make sure you don't already have it Not their problem. Marvel isn't in the business of selling back issues and they would rather you bought older material in trade or digitally so they can get some revenue off it anyways. Do you expect car manufacturers to worry about making it easier to buy used cars form other dealers or book publishers making it easier to buy used books from second hand stores too? -M |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 2, 2018 9:20:35 GMT -5
I know, that doesn't mean I can't hate it |
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Post by Cheswick on Mar 2, 2018 10:14:15 GMT -5
yeah, I think that's the most annoying thing for me.... between restarts and multiple covers, it's now really hard to buy stuff and make sure you don't already have it Not their problem. Marvel isn't in the business of selling back issues and they would rather you bought older material in trade or digitally so they can get some revenue off it anyways. Do you expect car manufacturers to worry about making it easier to buy used cars form other dealers or book publishers making it easier to buy used books from second hand stores too? -M True. But, because Marvel has had so many re-launches, when they do release titles in trade they often end up with multiple volume ones for characters/teams, which can be confusing for new fans and can potentially affect sales. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 2, 2018 10:26:47 GMT -5
Not their problem. Marvel isn't in the business of selling back issues and they would rather you bought older material in trade or digitally so they can get some revenue off it anyways. Do you expect car manufacturers to worry about making it easier to buy used cars form other dealers or book publishers making it easier to buy used books from second hand stores too? -M True. But, because Marvel has had so many re-launches, when they do release titles in trade they often end up with multiple volume ones for characters/teams, which can be confusing for new fans and can potentially affect sales. This is a trade-dress problem not a re-launch problem. |
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Post by Cheswick on Mar 2, 2018 10:44:09 GMT -5
True. But, because Marvel has had so many re-launches, when they do release titles in trade they often end up with multiple volume ones for characters/teams, which can be confusing for new fans and can potentially affect sales. This is a trade-dress problem not a re-launch problem. You're right. But, as it stands, it is a direct result of their many re-launches, and they would probably benefit from alternate trade dress. |
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Post by brutalis on Mar 2, 2018 13:20:59 GMT -5
The entire reason for changing issue numbers and multiple covers is to encourage double, triple, quadrupal dipping of purchasing the same exact issue more than once at the initial sale "without" waiting for the later trade reprint. Why throw away money to the LCS/used shops where the Publisher doesn't get anything in return when you the Publisher only get money from the initial sale. They want confusion on our part where we make impulse multiple buys at the initial release and don't care if we end up buying the same comic over and over again through the years.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 2, 2018 13:30:19 GMT -5
The entire reason for changing issue numbers and multiple covers is to encourage double, triple, quadrupal dipping of purchasing the same exact issue more than once at the initial sale "without" waiting for the later trade reprint. Why throw away money to the LCS/used shops where the Publisher doesn't get anything in return when you the Publisher only get money from the initial sale. They want confusion on our part where we make impulse multiple buys at the initial release and don't care if we end up buying the same comic over and over again through the years. I'm really struggling to parse what you're trying to say here. Are you suggesting that comic buyers are buying the same NEW comics multiple times? I can see (and we have people here saying they have) buying the same back issues by mistake. I can't imagine going to the comic shop and buying the same new issue multiple times. Or maybe you're saying something else and I'm just not understanding. |
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Post by String on Mar 2, 2018 14:32:58 GMT -5
The entire reason for changing issue numbers and multiple covers is to encourage double, triple, quadrupal dipping of purchasing the same exact issue more than once at the initial sale "without" waiting for the later trade reprint. Why throw away money to the LCS/used shops where the Publisher doesn't get anything in return when you the Publisher only get money from the initial sale. They want confusion on our part where we make impulse multiple buys at the initial release and don't care if we end up buying the same comic over and over again through the years. I'm really struggling to parse what you're trying to say here. Are you suggesting that comic buyers are buying the same NEW comics multiple times? I can see (and we have people here saying they have) buying the same back issues by mistake. I can't imagine going to the comic shop and buying the same new issue multiple times. Or maybe you're saying something else and I'm just not understanding. Hm, well, variant covers are a gimmick to make you buy more than one copy of the same issue. On the website of my LCS, I can peruse the variants of all the titles that I have on my pull list and can select however many of each variant that I care to purchase. I can buy the regular cover and a variant cover, same exact issue with both, but double the regular cost by buying two issues instead of just one copy. Add in rarer incentive covers (which on their website, you have to place a bid upon) and the cost of buying the same exact issue can quickly escalate. As for the other point, the problem with trade-dressing could possibly make it ambiguous as to which specific issues are being reprinted in that trade. In some instances, I've really had to focus on which issues are included to make sure I wasn't doubling down on issues or even storylines that I already own. Reading product reviews (like on Amazon) helps some in this area where fans can give a clearer idea of what's included in this book versus the product description itself. |
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