Post by moviefan2k4 on Apr 13, 2024 18:05:29 GMT -5
moviefan2k4 , thanks for posting this video.
May I offer a couple of observations, since this is the history thread?
While Jefferson is often credited as being the originator of this metaphor, most historians trace it as far back as Roger Williams, the who founded Rhode Island as a reaction to the theocratic government of the Massachusetts Bay Colony run by the Puritans. Williams was banished from Massachusetts for promoting ideas that were unpalatable to the Massachusetts government, which enforced the religious traditions and laws of the Puritans.
Williams wound up in what is now Rhode Island, beyond the boundary of Plymouth Colony, aided by the Wampanoag people.
Williams used the metaphor of a "high wall" as a division between the powers of the state and religion as a way to prevent the "wilderness" of government from infringing on one's right to worship as his or her conscience dictated. The charter of the colony he founded made Rhode Island and Providence Plantations the first explicitly secular government in history. People of all religions and no believers were encouraged and entitled to live there in absolute freedom to worship as they pleased or not to worship if that happened to be their wont.
The charter proclaimed that the colony would “hold forth a lively experiment, that a most flourishing civil state may stand and best be maintained, and that among our English subjects, with a full liberty in religious concernments; …that no person within the said colony, at any time hereafter, shall be anyway molested, punished, disquieted, or called in question, for any differences in opinion in matters of religion, and does not actually disturb the civil peace of our said colony; but that all and every person and persons may, from time to time, and at all times hereafter, freely and fully have and enjoy his and their own judgments and consciences, in matters of religious concernments.”
Until the founding of Rhode Island, all governments claimed to derive their authority from a deity, with some even claiming that their ruler was a god or ruling under the direction of a god or the Christian God (Remember the Divine Right of Kings?).
Our Constitution followed suit, declaring that it was not from a deity that the United States derived its authority, but from the people: “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
As for the First Amendment to the Constitution, it denies the government the right to create or establish a religion, thus preventing it from wielding authority in non-civil matters. And it also guarantees the right for Americans to worship as they damn well please, or not to worship at all.
Thus, Jefferson and Williams use of a wall as a metaphor to prevent either side from encroaching on the other's territory is apropos.
As for those Supreme Court decisions in the 1940s, (I believe you’re referring to Everson and McCollum, no?), the Court ruled for the religion side of the wall in the former, 5-4, with Hugo Black writing for the majority: “In the words of Jefferson, the [First amendment] clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect ‘a wall of separation between church and State’…. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.” That decision allowed public money to be used to transport children to parochial schools.
In the latter, the Court ruled against religious education in public schools, saying that “the First amendment’s language, properly interpreted, had erected a wall of separation between Church and State."
In neither case did the Court cite Jefferson’s metaphor as a precedent, instead offering it as an apt illustration of the First Amendment’s purpose.
BTW, I'm not necessarily saying the the Court is often, frequently, always right, or that the wall is impenetrable. I think we're seeing with increasing and alarming frequency that it is being weakened by legislatures, the courts and the Supremes themselves.
Rebuild that wall, say I.
While I agree with the concept of "mutual freedom", I also think it has become seriously warped by many, particularly those on the political Left. They seem to want complete separation in every way, across the board...but the Founders didn't believe in that. They knew the Church of England had become tyrannical (which was their main reason for leaving), but they also recognized a core necessity, for absolute truth to be fundamental in establishing the strong foundation for a prosperous nation. While the Founders were still human, and some of them shifted in their opinions, several still said and wrote a lot about their respect and admiration for religion...Christianity in particular. Here's just a few select quotes, along those lines...
“We should begin by setting conscience free. When all men of all religions...shall enjoy equal liberty, property, and an equal chance for honors and power...we may expect that improvements will be made in the human character and the state of society.” (John Adams)
“Spiritual freedom is the root of political liberty...As the union between spiritual freedom and political liberty seems nearly inseparable, it is our duty to defend both.” (Thomas Paine)
“Equal and exact justice to all men...freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of the person under the protection of the habeas corpus; and trial by juries impartially selected – these principles form the bright constellation that has gone before us.” (Thomas Jefferson)
“The liberty enjoyed by the people of these States of worshiping Almighty God, agreeable to their consciences, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights.” (George Washington)
“The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts.” (John Jay)
So clearly, many of our first "national parents" valued spiritual matters very much. And while non-believers routinely tend to misquote the intent behind the 1st Amendment, I think two other facts are worth noting...
First, many early Americans were religious dissenters escaping such as the Baptists, Quakers and even Catholics. While the First Amendment does not, contrary to popular opinion, provide for “separation between church and state,” it does prevent the federal government from establishing a state church.
Secondly, Congregationalism was a popular choice for New England states. Massachusetts was last to disestablish the Congregationalist Church in 1833. Currently, 8 states prohibit atheists from holding public office (Arkansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas). It is unclear if such laws would pass Constitutional muster, not due to the 1st Amendment, but the 14th, which prohibits depriving any American of their rights without due process of law.