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Post by rberman on Aug 3, 2019 13:08:55 GMT -5
I liked the use of pastels to signify telepathic/telekinetic blasts:
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 12, 2019 5:44:51 GMT -5
So I was reading Roy Thomas' introduction to the newly released Marvel Art of Conan the Barbarian, and it seems that the only reason we got Barry Windsor Smith on Conan was because of John Buscema's page rate. John was Roy's first choice and got the initial go ahead from Stan, but they couldn't get the green light for it because John's page rates as a veteran artist were going to be too high for an unproven book to be profitable, so they had to go with a newer artist with a lower page rate. Once Conan became a sales hit, and Smith left, they could then go and get Buscema on the book because sales were good enough to warrant his page rates. So if someone had been more optimistic about Conan's potential sales or if Big John had (or would have taken) a lower page rate, we never would have seen Barry Smith's Conan (or perhaps seen Smith emerge as the draw he was). But it started me thinking about all the posts around here bemoaning how several "classic" veteran artists don't get work form Marvel or DC anymore, and it got me thinking that maybe it because sales on most books these days aren't high enough to warrant paying the page rates those veterans command, and they might have priced themselves out of viability for most assignments these days since sales are under 50k for most books (there's maybe 20 books a month that top 50K in sales now and most of these are event/mini series not regular monthlies), so there are very few jobs available for those with higher page rates. I doubt many artists are going to take a cut rate page rate to get work when there are other better opportunities for artists in other fields. -M I always thought this. It always comes down to the money, and why not? But that also gives you a clue into who is still a draw( no pun intended) for todays books. Neal Adams keeps getting projects and so does Alan Davis, and sorry haters, so does Rob Liefeld.
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Post by kirby101 on Aug 12, 2019 7:29:08 GMT -5
I don't know if it works the same way today. Anybody here with knowledge of today's page rates and pay scale?
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Post by kirby101 on Aug 17, 2019 8:57:00 GMT -5
This occurred to me after seeing this cover in the "association" thread. The first Earth one and two crossover, bringing the Justice Society from the ancient Golden Age pass. I started reading in the Silver Age, but well after this was published. And it always felt like they had gone into the mists of times to bring back these heroes. But that "12 years" blurb made me realize that that is like yesterday. There were readers who had been reading the old JSA books that were also reading JLA. Civil War was 12 years ago and that is hardly old.
The Golden Age always felt like it came about after a long empty stretch after the Golden Age. But it was like 7 years between the last Jay Garrick and Barry Allen.
Just one of those realizations.
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Post by beccabear67 on Aug 17, 2019 12:53:34 GMT -5
I had a sort of similar realization. In 1983 I remember holding Hawkman #4 and thinking how old it was, 1963, older than me at the time, that was old to me then. Later that year I bought my first 'golden age' comic, a lowly Real Screen Comics (Fox & The Crow) pretty much just for it's sheer age of 1943... like wow, the war was on then! It was forty years old... forty years ago now is 1979! An X-Men #125 or Amazing Spider-Man #194 should feel to me now like that Real Screen felt then, and much older than the Hawkman #4 that impressed me so much before that.
I always wonder why the Atlas revival of Sub-Mariner, Human Torch and Captain America in the '50s isn't paired with the DC and Archie superhero comics revival that followed them? You'd almost think there was no superheroes after the '40s and then out of the blue a new Flash (and one that was reading an old '40s Flash Comics in his first appearance of Showcase #4). Couldn't the Atlas line-up have led to revamping The Flash? They make so much about the first Justice League in Brave & Bold leading to Fantastic Four #1... I've never read anyone say DC people noticed the Atlas/Marvel superheroes, and I think they had decent distribution at that time too unlike later.
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Post by Phil Maurice on Aug 17, 2019 13:21:52 GMT -5
I always wonder why the Atlas revival of Sub-Mariner, Human Torch and Captain America in the '50s isn't paired with the DC and Archie superhero comics revival that followed them? You'd almost think there was no superheroes after the '40s and then out of the blue a new Flash (and one that was reading an old '40s Flash Comics in his first appearance of Showcase #4). Couldn't the Atlas line-up have led to revamping The Flash? They make so much about the first Justice League in Brave & Bold leading to Fantastic Four #1... I've never read anyone say DC people noticed the Atlas/Marvel superheroes, and I think they had decent distribution at that time too unlike later. I don't think the Atlas revival was successful, lasting just under two years. There were no re-imaginings to speak of. It was the same heroes, now fighting "Commies" instead of Nazis, and the stories mostly paled in comparison to the DC revivals. Even Stan later went on record that the tone of the Atlas revival probably scuttled the thing.
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Post by beccabear67 on Aug 17, 2019 14:06:07 GMT -5
I don't think the Atlas revival was successful, lasting just under two years. There were no re-imaginings to speak of. It was the same heroes, now fighting "Commies" instead of Nazis, and the stories mostly paled in comparison to the DC revivals. Even Stan later went on record that the tone of the Atlas revival probably scuttled the thing. I thought maybe the Sub-Mariner had a bit of longevity (and quality) at the time, making it to the stamp style code, but might be a stretch to say he inspired a new Flash. Still the four (including Young Men) titles might have been noticed, and perhaps from another company they wouldn't necessarily know anything of the sales figures. It was a great mini period with The Black Knight and some nicely drawn jungle and mystery titles. I did read about the crash of it (and Joe Maneeley's death) in a Alter Ego/Back Issue covering the time. Might've beens are some of the saddest things.
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Post by Phil Maurice on Aug 17, 2019 14:32:24 GMT -5
I thought maybe the Sub-Mariner had a bit of longevity (and quality) at the time, making it to the stamp style code, but might be a stretch to say he inspired a new Flash. Still the four (including Young Men) titles might have been noticed, and perhaps from another company they wouldn't necessarily know anything of the sales figures. It was a great mini period with The Black Knight and some nicely drawn jungle and mystery titles. I did read about the crash of it (and Joe Maneeley's death) in a Alter Ego/Back Issue covering the time. Might've beens are some of the saddest things. Yes, the Sub-Mariner title lasted the longest, throwing in the towel in Oct. 1955, several months after the others had been cancelled. It's easy to see why it hung on. Everett's Sub-Mariner work in this period is some of the best of his career. A couple of issues sported Joe Maneely covers which also served to elevate the title. Dick Ayers and Bob Powell also did nice work on the Torch and Namor, respectively, but Mort Lawrence's Captain America does nothing for me. It's entirely possible that they were inspirational to other publishers, and just because I've never seen anything to suggest that doesn't mean it isn't so.
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Post by Farrar on Aug 17, 2019 14:48:57 GMT -5
Yes, the Sub-Mariner title lasted the longest, throwing in the towel in Oct. 1955, several months after the others had been cancelled. It's easy to see why it hung on. Everett's Sub-Mariner work in this period is some of the best of his career. A couple of issues sported Joe Maneely covers which also served to elevate the title. Regarding the relative longevity of the Sub-Mariner's mag revival, don't forget in the '50s there was a lot of talk about a proposed Sub-Mariner TV series (a la The Adventures of Superman). So Timely had another reason to keep that Subby series afloat And I agree Bill Everett's 1950s Namor work is superlative, also love his work in the 1950s Atlas horror mags.
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Post by Phil Maurice on Aug 17, 2019 14:59:58 GMT -5
Regarding the relative longevity of the Sub-Mariner's mag revival, don't forget in the '50s there was a lot of talk about a proposed Sub-Mariner TV series (a la The Adventures of Superman). So Timely had another reason to keep that Subby series afloat And I agree Bill Everett's 1950s Namor work is superlative, also love his work in the 1950s Atlas horror mags. Oh, yes! Well remembered, Farrar. Richard Egan, wasn't it?
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Post by Farrar on Aug 17, 2019 15:00:31 GMT -5
^^^ Right!
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Post by Farrar on Aug 17, 2019 15:13:45 GMT -5
It was a great mini period with The Black Knight and some nicely drawn jungle and mystery titles. I did read about the crash of it (and Joe Maneeley's death) in a Alter Ego/Back Issue covering the time. Might've beens are some of the saddest things. ...A couple of issues sported Joe Maneely covers which also served to elevate the title. Agree wholeheartedly about Maneely, what a talent! I love his work, with its meticulous details. A great example (among many) is this Black Knight cover I posted in a recent cover contest. So much going on!
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Post by Farrar on Aug 17, 2019 15:20:53 GMT -5
This occurred to me after seeing this cover in the "association" thread. The first Earth one and two crossover, bringing the Justice Society from the ancient Golden Age pass. I started reading in the Silver Age, but well after this was published... I bought this comic only about 7 or so years after its publication, and I remember thinking that the comic was positively ancient in my eyes! Anyway I saw this at the collectibles store on my block and was mesmerized by the cover with all those characters, but as I'd already spent my $1.05 on three other old comics (35 cents each), I didn't have enough money to buy this. Well, I was so worried someone else would scoop this up, I returned the very next day to the store (usually I only went to this store once a week, when I got my allowance. Somehow I managed to finagle some extra $$$ from my mother, I must have made up a story about losing my lunch money or something). This became one of the cherished comics of my childhood.
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 17, 2019 15:32:12 GMT -5
It was a great mini period with The Black Knight and some nicely drawn jungle and mystery titles. I did read about the crash of it (and Joe Maneeley's death) in a Alter Ego/Back Issue covering the time. Might've beens are some of the saddest things. ...A couple of issues sported Joe Maneely covers which also served to elevate the title. Agree wholeheartedly about Maneely, what a talent! I love his work, with its meticulous details. A great example (among many) is this Black Knight cover I posted in a recent cover contest. So much going on! I heard it said on this forum that if he hadn't died, he might have been the " Jack Kirby" of the Marvel universe.
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Post by Phil Maurice on Aug 17, 2019 15:39:23 GMT -5
Agree wholeheartedly about Maneely, what a talent! I love his work, with its meticulous details. He's probably my favorite artist of the Atom Age. His "million little lines" approach is endlessly captivating. Of course, my fascination with Maneely may have almost as much to do with his tragic end as it does his mastery of technique. That might also explain my fanaticism over Joy Division, Lovecraft and a host of others. Sensing a pattern?
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