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Post by Jeddak on Nov 24, 2018 20:31:32 GMT -5
I've gotten into the habit of adding titles to my shopping cart at mycomicshop as I decide I want them, and placing the order when it gets big enough. At the moment, about half of the titles on that list are there because of this thread and the Teen Titans thread by shaxper (The rest are thanks to codystarbuck and his Defenders thread). You guys are costing me money, dang it! I know I don't contribute to these threads much. Hell, I don't contribute to the forum much these days. But I wanted to let you both know that I am really enjoying these threads. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 24, 2018 21:02:11 GMT -5
I've gotten into the habit of adding titles to my shopping cart at mycomicshop as I decide I want them, and placing the order when it gets big enough. At the moment, about half of the titles on that list are there because of this thread and the Teen Titans thread by shaxper (The rest are thanks to codystarbuck and his Defenders thread). You guys are costing me money, dang it! I know I don't contribute to these threads much. Hell, I don't contribute to the forum much these days. But I wanted to let you both know that I am really enjoying these threads. Man, is that a compliment that makes my day. Thanks so much, Jeddak! |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 24, 2018 22:49:41 GMT -5
My God, this series had some downright unappealing covers (...) I mean, was it that important to show Alfred's head, or Kiteman's, or a fresco of the Mad Hatter in all his milllinerical glory in order to reassure the reader that the Don Heck-Vince Colletta art on the lead story wasn't going to be the only exciting story in the book? No Alfred, no sale? Really? I suspect the idea was to create a perception of "value". Alfred's head didn't matter so much, but there being multiple heads in that space did, suggesting so many extra stories that they could barely all be teased on one cover. On at least one past cover, they included two heads from the same (double length) story in a minor act of dishonesty. I guess they felt it was necessary to show volume over quality if they were going to charge 50 cents a book. That being said, the size of the frame around the cover art diminishes next issue and is removed entirely two issues later. It would appear that your thinking prevailed in the end. |
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Post by shaxper on Nov 24, 2018 23:00:57 GMT -5
Interesting.. I was just reading some pre-crisis Action Comics (circa 1980) and Abraxas is Vandal Savage's company... did it reach back that far? I looked it up, and there's not alot of reference on Abraxas... Savage left Action with a 'I have plenty of time.. I foil Superman yet' type ending and didn't appear again for 20+ years. Google also tells me it's a real oil company, so maybe it's just a name? Or is it simply a good corporate name for an evil corporation (sorta like Roxxon went from being a Stark rival to owned by the Minotaur and trying to conquer Asgard). Or maybe Savage bought them in story at some point? Outstanding research! I took a quick look through the wikipedia entry on Abraxas, and it wasn't particularly helpful. The name doesn't seem to have any singular specific meaning. Could just be that the harshness of the name reminds us of harsh/dangerous chemicals: Borax, Abraxas. The 1989 Batman film named its chemical plant "Axis", and the Joker later unleashed a lethal gas in that film called "Smilex". Seems like the "x" might be the most critical component, from a psychological standpoint. I guess "x"s are both harsh and rarely found in common words that aren't attributable to something unnatural that science has given us.   |
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 25, 2018 0:21:28 GMT -5
I've gotten into the habit of adding titles to my shopping cart at mycomicshop as I decide I want them, and placing the order when it gets big enough. At the moment, about half of the titles on that list are there because of this thread and the Teen Titans thread by shaxper (The rest are thanks to codystarbuck and his Defenders thread). You guys are costing me money, dang it! I know I don't contribute to these threads much. Hell, I don't contribute to the forum much these days. But I wanted to let you both know that I am really enjoying these threads. Aye, here too! Astonishing Tales run of Deathlock, various Defenders runs and mini runs, Simonson Metal Men, and now have ordered Batman Family #18, all down to threads here, and some others besides.  |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 25, 2018 9:15:15 GMT -5
Batman Family #7 (October 1976)  "13 Points to a Dead End!" Script: Elliot S! Maggin Pencils: Curt Swan Inks: Vince Colletta Colors: ? Letters: ? grade: B+ Surprisingly, this proves to be the Batgirl/Robin team-up's best story yet, not that the cover would give you any reason to believe this. Beginning last issue with the introduction of The Joker's Daughter, there seems to be a push toward getting our heroes back to fighting traditional costumed villains, and we'll see that continue next time around with the supposed debut of "Catgirl". This, in itself, is not what makes the story work so well. In fact, the selection of villains this time around is...awful:  And, if you're as confused as I initially was by the appearance of The Huntress here, keep in mind that Helena Wayne (who will later be appearing in this very title)'s first appearance is still fourteen months away. This is a very different Huntress, and she proves far more forgettable. But the villains' plot, itself, is pretty clever, and there are enough twists, turns, and generally good ideas that there isn't a single page of this outing that drags. Whether taking down hijackers on airplanes, riding chariots to the death, or plummeting helplessly into the unknown darkness of an ancient tomb, this story kept me entertained throughout for the first time in seven issues. Really, the only negative thing I can say about this adventure (beyond the choice of D list villains) is that Curt Swan's artwork continues to feel stilted and unappealingly retro. He can take a powerful layout and make it look...stiff:  And then, sometimes, he'll just do something so thoroughly Atom Age that comes out of nowhere:  I've seen Swan turn in more intense and modern looking work than this, but not until the 1980s. Right now, he (and this book, by extension) seems lost in another era. Of course, the true selling point of this feature continues to be the will-they/won't-they tension between Batgirl and Robin, and boy is that played up this time, even as the problematic age difference Maggin didn't seem to be aware of at the start is continually rubbed in our faces now:   And, as always, Maggin gives us that one moment in the story that makes our collective jaw drop in regard to this romantic tension:  (note: Batgirl had a plan all along and knew they weren't plummeting to their deaths. Robin didn't.)And yet, while Rozakis is now indulging in this romantic tension instead of trying to deny it on the letters page, he's also clearly trying to steer it in a direction that goes nowhere:  "One-sided romance," Bob? C'mon! Important Details:- First costumed villains the Batgirl/Robin duo have fought. - First appearance of Earth-One Huntress (Paula Brooks) and Sportsmaster Minor Details:- Why is Bruce Wayne framing this story on the first and last page? In the Last team-up, Clark Kent was hanging around for no reason, and now Bruce is somehow needed to endorse the crime-fighting duo?  I mean...this might have made sense seven issues ago? As of this issue, the backup reprints no longer attempt to feature other members of the "Batman family". These are both regular Batman stories: "The Amazing Dr. Double X!" (from Detective Comics #261) "The Broken Batman Trophies" (from Batman #103) |
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Post by spoon on Nov 25, 2018 11:42:58 GMT -5
It was 1975, and the Batman Office was desperate. Bat-mania had dwindled away half a decade earlier, the Fox television series leaving the wrong impression about Batman and his mythos in the minds of many impressionable readers, ... A quick bunch of comments: - in 1975, no one called it "the Batman Office". They didn't even have all the Bat-books under the same editor. Julius Schwartz edited Batman and Detective, while Murray Boltinoff handled Brave & Bold. - the TV series was on ABC. The Fox network didn't exist yet. The series ended in March 1968, and ratings had been down significantly since the previous summer, so it had been a good eight years since Bat-Mania. Regarding the TV series, you're both right. It was a Fox series that aired on ABC. While the Fox television network would not exist for a couple decades, the 20th Century Fox movie studio (like many other movie studios) had created its own television production unit. That's why Twentieth Century-Fox Television is mentioned in the closing credits. I believe that may have been part of the reason it took so long to get a DVD release. There was wrangling between Fox as producer of the series and WB as the parent company of DC. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 13:21:32 GMT -5
Batman Family #7 (October 1976) is my favorite book in that Series because it's marked the first appearance of Earth-One Huntress (Paula Brooks) and Sportsmaster.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 29, 2018 20:57:28 GMT -5
Batman Family #8 (December 1976)  We get a new change-up this issue as Robin gets a full-length solo story instead of the usual ten pages, while Batgirl is forced to settle for a reprint of her final Detective Comics solo adventure. Apparently, fan reaction to issue #6 showed little interest in the solo Batgirl feature, but lots of positive reaction to the first appearance of The Joker's Daughter in the Robin feature, so that's the basket we're putting our eggs in this time around. Perhaps, more significantly, this issue marks Elliot S! Maggin's departure from the series and Bob Rozakis' rise to lead-feature writer. Did this happen because fans preferred Rozakis' work, or is Rozakis exaggerating the fan reaction a bit in order to justify his continued emphasis on The Joker's Daughter in this issue? Writers controlling their own letters pages, hmmm... "The Copycatgirl Capers!" Script: Bob Rozakis Pencils: Irv Novick Inks: Vince Colletta Colors: ? Letters: ? grade: F I miss Maggin already. This is, by far, the worst lead story we've yet seen in this title (and that absolutely includes fighting the ghost of Benedict Arnold in issue #1). Essentially, this story only has two aims, and it screws them both up pretty badly: 1. Give Robin a chance to save Batman. Dick is talking to Bruce on the phone, they get cut-off, and Dick automatically assumes Bruce is in trouble, speeding across the country to save him. Surprise! He wasn't. I mean...why? 2. Stun readers with the pointless revelation that "Catgirl" is actually The Joker's Daughter in disguise. Not only is this a pretty lame twist, but Irv Novick's pencils utterly fail to convince us it's even possible:   So she was wearing a fake jaw/half-face the entire time? And that never looked odd to Robin?? And how do you explain the eyebrows changing? Actually, Novick's pencils bother me throughout this issue. I complained previously that Curt Swan's approach on these stories felt awkwardly throwback, and Novick sort of follows suit here:   I rarely liked Novick's work on Batman, but I recall it looking a lot better than this. Really, there's just so much to dislike about this awkward story, from Rozakis repeatedly having his characters and narration refer to Gotham as "The Big Apple," to Catgirl's totally random low-level crimes, like collecting all the "catsup" in an airport restaurant, or attacking a college chemistry classrooom just because it uses a "catalyst".  "Aha!" you might be thinking. "She does the second one because she has figured out Robin's secret identity, like she promised to do in issue #6" Nope, I reply. It's dumb luck:  Beyond all the randomness, awkwardness, and true stupidness of this story, Rozakis does have one other agenda now that Maggin is gone, and I hate it. In previous letters pages, Rozakis has made no secret of the problem he has with the will-they/won't-they thing between Batgirl and Robin (even if that was the primary appeal of this book), so he's trying to push a substitute on us this time around:   And (once again) let's recall that she is doing this with a fake face... I hate when writers create pet characters that they feel the need to oversell to the reader, and with this story, the Joker's Daughter has officially become that. She hasn't earned the decade long history between Dick and Babs, and she truly isn't warranting the amount of attention Rozakis is about to lavish upon her in both this title and The Teen Titans. Like many of the fans writing in about issue #6, I liked the Joker's Daughter there, finding her a refreshing return to costumed villains that the Robin solo stories desperately needed, but that didn't mean any of us were particularly in love with this villain, specifically. Oh frickin' well. We're about to get a lot more of her. Backup stories for this issue include: "The Web of the Spinner" (from Batman #129) "Batgirl's Last Case" (from Detective Comics #424) |
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 29, 2018 23:05:12 GMT -5
Batman Family #8 (December 1976)  But that stunning Ernie Chua/an cover saves it all... 
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 1, 2018 0:43:54 GMT -5
I'm going on record as saying I enjoyed the whole Joker's Daughter subplot in Batman Family. I got this issue and the next appearance or two off the newsstand, after a bit of begging. I quite enjoyed the whole thing. I hadn't read the Batgirl story; so, a reprint didn't bother me. She gets a couple of nice solo stories coming up (my opinion, obviously). I also always enjoyed Irv Novick on Batman and thought he was fine, here. In a lot of his Batman material, he was inked by Dick Giordano; here, it is Vince Coletta. I'll take the Giordano inks, any day.. As for the mask? Two words: Mission Impossible. If you can buy the disguises of Martin Landau and Leonard Nimoy, I think you can cut the Joker's Daughter some slack.  I will say, I was not happy, in the 80s, when I saw how the Joker's Daughter was treated, by Marv Wolfman, in the New Teen Titans. She might not have been the greatest character in the world; but, she wasn't that bad (just not used to best potential) and deserved a little better. At least she got an invite to the wedding! |
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Post by tarkintino on Dec 1, 2018 2:55:38 GMT -5
Batman Family #7 (October 1976) "13 Points to a Dead End!" Surprisingly, this proves to be the Batgirl/Robin team-up's best story yet, not that the cover would give you any reason to believe this. Beginning last issue with the introduction of The Joker's Daughter, there seems to be a push toward getting our heroes back to fighting traditional costumed villains, Largely due from the shift from the late 60s / early 70s growth of Robin and Batgirl as detectives who happened to wear costumes. A quick glance at that period's Batman and Detective Comics shows either involved with as much "real" crime and mystery stories as much as the super-hero material. That was a golden period for both, as they stepped out of Batman's shadow to become their own, adult characters, but this title was more about the novelty of the team up, with not much character growth continued from that golden period. Looking at the Robin/Grayson from this title would never hint at the kind of character he would become when The New Teen Titans was launched (in DC Comics Presents) only four years later. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 4, 2018 20:02:01 GMT -5
Actually, Novick's pencils bother me throughout this issue. I complained previously that Curt Swan's approach on these stories felt awkwardly throwback, and Novick sort of follows suit here: I rarely liked Novick's work on Batman, but I recall it looking a lot better than this. I'm a Novick fan - I suspect this might just be a case of Colletta not doing him any favors. The nuts and bolts of the narrative (staging, camera work, pacing) all seem fine to me. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 22:02:03 GMT -5
I'm a Novick fan - I suspect this might just be a case of Colletta not doing him any favors. The nuts and bolts of the narrative (staging, camera work, pacing) all seem fine to me. Same here. Loved Novick on Batman & Flash stories back then. Agree it was probably Colletta's inks. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Dec 5, 2018 13:33:42 GMT -5
Batman Family #8 (December 1976) I rarely liked Novick's work on Batman, but I recall it looking a lot better than this. Really? I renjoy Norvick's Batman art quite a bit, actually. |
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