|
|
Post by The Captain on Jun 15, 2019 12:16:58 GMT -5
to Me, Madonna looks like she's trying too hard here -- but she's been trying too hard for at least the past 5 years. (the last album was atrocious too. . . seriously, this was crap, and THIS was the single???: Actually, I'm surprised that she is still recording. She's been around for almost 40 years, way past the shelf life of most Musical acts. I'm not surprised she's still recording at all. For people in my generation, artists like Madonna, Duran Duran, The Cure, and Bon Jovi remind us of MTV, record stores, and a pre-cell phone, pre-internet world. They can continue to churn out music and folks my age will eat it up because we remember how they used to be on top of the world. These artists created iconic songs and we're willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, so they might as well keep making music and making money before they break a hip or something. |
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Jun 15, 2019 13:16:43 GMT -5
My thinking was that stars begin to churn out music that falls out of favor with the public. I remember hearing that the group Blonde was playing to empty venues at the end.
|
|
|
|
Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 15, 2019 14:11:12 GMT -5
Madonna is pure marketing and always has been, So? Being a professional musician means you have a product to sell. You can either be honest about this like Madonna or a big 'ol faker like Bruce. Paraphrasing George Carlin on Bill Clinton - If you're going to be full of shit it's better to be honest about being full of shit. And some of the stuff she was doing in the late '80s stikes me as important work; She was dealing with topics that had not been explored in pop culture before by anyone and she was actively and purposefully using her stardom to change the public's perception about female sexual desire. That she used marketing extraordinarily well does not devalue her art - it just means she'd read Malcom Mclaren. The idea that art is not commerce is offensive to me. I'm sure there are brilliant, transcendent musicians who never leave their bedroom, but any artist that I've heard of and who has affected my life (ESPECIALLY IN MUSIC) is there because somebody - not always the artist - went out and sold that shit. Authenticity is a lie, everything is fake, and that gives the artist more spaces to work in. |
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jun 15, 2019 16:19:02 GMT -5
Alright, this started with poking fun at her Angelina Jolie-as-Franky Cook impersonation and the silliness of it all (after getting hit with it 4 times in one day); may have been a bit harsh on her career. For the record. I like a good deal of her material up to Like A Prayer. In terms of songs, it's her contributions to the Vision Quest soundtrack, Crazy For You and Gambler that are my favorites. However, from that point on, I like it less and less, wish I could get back the time I spent watching Truth or Dare and am fine with never seeing her "act" ever again (unless Penny Marshall is directing, which can't happen anymore). I do think style completely replaced substance from the 90s onward. So, no not all marketing; but, way more time spent on it these days than the actual music.
Bowie may be comparable in terms of changing personnas; but, Bowie, for my money, actually had far more evolution and pioneering musically, as did Prince, though I think Prince's and Madonna's egos could have easily had tug of wars. Bowie seemed to mellow with age and getting cleaned up to where he did come across as badly as he could in his younger days and when the drugs were getting the better of him.
Now, vocally and stylistically, for female artists (or bands with female lead vocalists), I'd much rather listen to: Blondie, Pat Benatar, Heart, The Motels, Berlin, Yaz(oo)/Alison Moyet, Aimee Mann, Dolly Parton, Eurythmics/Annie Lennox, Concrete Blonde, Petula Clark, Doris Day, Aretha Franklin, Wanda Jackson, Julie Andrews, and a few others I could name.
|
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jun 15, 2019 16:28:14 GMT -5
My thinking was that stars begin to churn out music that falls out of favor with the public. I remember hearing that the group Blonde was playing to empty venues at the end. Blondie was in a bad state, in their latter touring days. Lots of drug problems, lots of fighting, health issues (related to the drug problems. When they started doing new tours for their greatest hist album and new song (Maria) they were drawing pretty big crowds and the consensus it was as good as the old days. All of that was affecting their studio work and live gigs, whis is why they pretty much called it quits, by the mid-80s, for quite a while. Debby Harry also tried the acting thing without much success. Autoamerican was my least favorite of their "classic" albums, though I still liked some of the songs. Tide is High got way overplayed and still does, compared to a lot of their better songs. Curse of Blondie, which didn't do all that well, was still mostly good, though I didn't car for a couple of songs on it. My brain still has trouble processing that Debby Harry is over 70. |
|
|
|
Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 28, 2019 14:03:42 GMT -5
Madonna and Bruce Springsteen had the # 1 and # 2 album last week.
I'm glad they're still kicking. We lost Prince, Whitney, Michael (and George Michael)... Really, they're the only major, major MTV solo stars of their era left.
Maybe Janet Jackson.
I really want to argue for Cyndi Lauper because I FREAKING LOVE CYNDI LAUPER but I don't think she quite broke through to the stratosphere of stardom - although "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" has 764 million views on youtube, so....
|
|
|
|
Post by Cei-U! on Jun 28, 2019 15:17:55 GMT -5
Dammit, people, I open this thread all excited to hear about a Sky Captain sequel and all I find is a lot of blather about that Ciccone skank. Talk about a letdown!
Cei-U!
I summon the shattered hope!
|
|
|
|
Post by Prince Hal on Jun 29, 2019 18:13:01 GMT -5
He reminds me of the farmers who i grew up around, especially in the early 70s. Pretty sure Springsteen isn't using a cheap gimmick to sell his new album, though...... So he's keeping the same gimmick he's always used? I don't mean this an an insult AT ALL, but Bruce has always sold persona-as-product, and I don't think his "hardworking lower middle class Jersey boy" thing is any less manufactured whatever Madonna's doing. It's a false construct - like any performer/audience relationship - and it's designed to smooth out the rough edges and improve marketability. Every professional musician eventually realizes that they are a product. Some try to fool their audience with delusions of "authenticity" - or tacitly allow their marketing team to do so - and some don't. Madonna strikes me as refreshingly honest, always has. That said, I rarely liked her music* - I'm more of a Cyndi Lauper guy. (* Like a Prayer is my mo-fo JAM, tho) Springsteen freely and frequently admits (most recently and explicitly in his Broadway performance), that his persona as a blue-collar factory guy has nothing to do with his actual life, especially since his hardscrabble days as a young musician. And I would argue that it was a cloak more draped about his shoulders by the PR people and his public -- fans and critics alike -- than one he assumed himself. There is no more honest, self-aware, self-critical, self-deprecating artist than Springsteen. But there is no doubting that he is an artist of uncommon empathy and perception. Though he never did work in a factory or drive a bus or get a union card at 19 to work for the Johnstown company, he is of working-class stock; he knew the toll that that kind of life exacts from those who live it -- and from their families. How did Dylan write so powerfully about "The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll" or Ruben "Hurricane" Carter without having lived their lives? Toulouse-Lautrec, who so memorably captured the beauty and the decadence the demi-monde of Paris, was of aristocratic background; John Wayne was never a cowboy or a soldier; Shakespeare was a young man from a country town. Ask any weekend warrior who plays beer-league softball or basketball if he or she is of MLB or NBA quality; he'll admit the truth, of course, and yet watch the way those warriors walk, their mannerisms, their warm-ups before for the game, and their understanding of the intricacies of the game they play. Those amateurs know in their bones about the life they're only pretending to be a part of. Such is the way of great artists, too, a group of which Springsteen has long been a member. |
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 9,528 
|
Post by Confessor on Jun 29, 2019 21:19:03 GMT -5
Springsteen freely and frequently admits (most recently and explicitly in his Broadway performance), that his persona as a blue-collar factory guy has nothing to do with his actual life, especially since his hardscrabble days as a young musician. And I would argue that it was a cloak more draped about his shoulders by the PR people and his public -- fans and critics alike -- than one he assumed himself. There is no more honest, self-aware, self-critical, self-deprecating artist than Springsteen. But there is no doubting that he is an artist of uncommon empathy and perception. Though he never did work in a factory or drive a bus or get a union card at 19 to work for the Johnstown company, he is of working-class stock; he knew the toll that that kind of life exacts from those who live it -- and from their families. How did Dylan write so powerfully about "The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll" or Ruben "Hurricane" Carter without having lived their lives? Toulouse-Lautrec, who so memorably captured the beauty and the decadence the demi-monde of Paris, was of aristocratic background; John Wayne was never a cowboy or a soldier; Shakespeare was a young man from a country town. Ask any weekend warrior who plays beer-league softball or basketball if he or she is of MLB or NBA quality; he'll admit the truth, of course, and yet watch the way those warriors walk, their mannerisms, their warm-ups before for the game, and their understanding of the intricacies of the game they play. Those amateurs know in their bones about the life they're only pretending to be a part of. Such is the way of great artists, too, a group of which Springsteen has long been a member. I was with you all the way. Right up until you mentioned John Wayne. You were on such a roll of great examples too.  |
|
|
|
Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 2, 2019 19:57:18 GMT -5
Springsteen freely and frequently admits (most recently and explicitly in his Broadway performance), that his persona as a blue-collar factory guy has nothing to do with his actual life, especially since his hardscrabble days as a young musician. And I would argue that it was a cloak more draped about his shoulders by the PR people and his public -- fans and critics alike -- than one he assumed himself. There is no more honest, self-aware, self-critical, self-deprecating artist than Springsteen. But there is no doubting that he is an artist of uncommon empathy and perception. Though he never did work in a factory or drive a bus or get a union card at 19 to work for the Johnstown company, he is of working-class stock; he knew the toll that that kind of life exacts from those who live it -- and from their families. How did Dylan write so powerfully about "The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll" or Ruben "Hurricane" Carter without having lived their lives? Toulouse-Lautrec, who so memorably captured the beauty and the decadence the demi-monde of Paris, was of aristocratic background; John Wayne was never a cowboy or a soldier; Shakespeare was a young man from a country town. Ask any weekend warrior who plays beer-league softball or basketball if he or she is of MLB or NBA quality; he'll admit the truth, of course, and yet watch the way those warriors walk, their mannerisms, their warm-ups before for the game, and their understanding of the intricacies of the game they play. Those amateurs know in their bones about the life they're only pretending to be a part of. Such is the way of great artists, too, a group of which Springsteen has long been a member. I was with you all the way. Right up until you mentioned John Wayne. You were on such a roll of great examples too. Hey now, the Duke is sacred. |
|
