|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2019 6:56:59 GMT -5
Star Trek Magazine #198, published in mid-2019, had a feature about The Borg. The writer of the article is Rich Matthews. I presume he wrote the words in various boxes throughout the article. This is a very brief segment from the article:
It's that last sentence that really interests me.
What do you think?
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Jul 9, 2019 9:40:01 GMT -5
I agree with it. But the trade is not necessarily a bad one.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2019 9:53:40 GMT -5
On a pragmatic level, I realise that any villain that becomes popular will be reused again (even if the intent was a one-off or sporadic appearances). It's the nature of fiction.
Sure, it can be overdone at times, but, quite frankly, if I was a producer on Star Trek Discovery, I'd be very, very tempted to find a way to bring the Borg in. When you have "toys" to play with, the temptation can be strong, I feel.
On an emotionless, practical level, I get the mindset that would think, 'Leave the Borg be.' But on a fan level, I understand the temptation to bring a villain back, whether we're talking about Star Trek or any other franchise. I quite like the Borg's appearance in Enterprise.
Retcons and "what you think you know is a lie..." are delicate "tools" for any franchise to use. Do they always get it right? Of course not. But I understand why.
It's the same with sequels. Some films probably didn't need a sequel. Did RoboCop? Did Planet of the Apes? Did The Terminator? Or Predator? Probably not. On a logical level, I personally don't think any of those films required a sequel. But on a fan level/profit-making Hollywood level, I do understand why things turn into a cash cow.
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Jul 9, 2019 11:41:17 GMT -5
Interesting in that I didn't know the Borg appeared in Enterprise, I barely have seen any of that series (I think I shunned it a bit because I saw a lot of Quantum Leap). "Federation scientists actually sought them out" sounds like they lifted from Alien there, and the Cybermen were an earlier similar sf lot. I agree it would make the Seven Of Nine story deeper though. I thought Q overused but in terms of introducing the Borg he's both important and now a bit less important... so he was as much exposing duplicity of The Federation now?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2019 17:10:33 GMT -5
So, who would win if the Borg took on the Cybermen?
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 9, 2019 20:14:37 GMT -5
Star Trek Magazine #198, published in mid-2019, had a feature about The Borg. The writer of the article is Rich Matthews. I presume he wrote the words in various boxes throughout the article. This is a very brief segment from the article: It's that last sentence that really interests me. What do you think? The Borg were essentially ruined, first by the complete reinterpretation of their nature in First Contact (although the movie did have a lot of success as a space action flick) and by the increasing irrelevance that Voyager kept pushing them into. I never watched Enterprise, but it seemed to have done a lot of continuity twisting... and anyway I’m not surprised that the franchise would by the. have been milked for whatever it was worth, and consistency be damned. It was strategic to turn the Borg into the Aliens, I guess... audiences were familiar with the concept, and a bunch of creepy drones following the commands of a mustache-twirling villain (if only figuratively) is something we can all understand. But just like Galactus at Marvel, the Borg could remain formidable only if they remained the enemy that can’t be defeated; when they appeared, it took some form of cheating to avoid utter destruction. With repeated returns, they became more and more like just another alien species of the week, and with them as with so many creations, familiarity breeds contempt. The original Borg were so unstoppable that they didn’t even bother to defend themselves. They had no feeling to hurt, no ego to defend, no physicality to hurt... they were a quiet nightmare, as implacable as death itself. But by the time we reached the end of Voyager, the Borg queen (ugh, what a bad concept) was just another crazy power-hungry evil character. And the Borg could be defeated by a #$@ holographic doctor. I’m glad the apocryphal trilogy by David Mack in which the Borg meet their end pretty much went back to the original concept. It was too late, but it was a decent last hurrah for a great Trek species. As for Q, I never saw him as malevolent. Whimsical, certainly, but I’m sure he sort of liked us (if only the way we like to scratch an itch).
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Jul 9, 2019 20:41:13 GMT -5
Star Trek Magazine #198, published in mid-2019, had a feature about The Borg. The writer of the article is Rich Matthews. I presume he wrote the words in various boxes throughout the article. This is a very brief segment from the article: It's that last sentence that really interests me. What do you think? The Borg were essentially ruined, first by the complete reinterpretation of their nature in First Contact (although the movie did have a lot of success as a space action flick) and by the increasing irrelevance that Voyager kept pushing them into. I never watched Enterprise, but it seemed to have done a lot of continuity twisting... and anyway I’m not surprised that the franchise would by the. have been milked for whatever it was worth, and consistency be damned. It was strategic to turn the Borg into the Aliens, I guess... audiences were familiar with the concept, and a bunch of creepy drones following the commands of a mustache-twirling villain (if only figuratively) is something we can all understand. But just like Galactus at Marvel, the Borg could remain formidable only if they remained the enemy that can’t be defeated; when they appeared, it took some form of cheating to avoid utter destruction. With repeated returns, they became more and more like just another alien species of the week, and with them as with so many creations, familiarity breeds contempt. The original Borg were so unstoppable that they didn’t even bother to defend themselves. They had no feeling to hurt, no ego to defend, no physicality to hurt... they were a quiet nightmare, as implacable as death itself. But by the time we reached the end of Voyager, the Borg queen (ugh, what a bad concept) was just another crazy power-hungry evil character. And the Borg could be defeated by a #$@ holographic doctor. I’m glad the apocryphal trilogy by David Mack in which the Borg meet their end pretty much went back to the original concept. It was too late, but it was a decent last hurrah for a great Trek species. As for Q, I never saw him as malevolent. Whimsical, certainly, but I’m sure he sort of liked us (if only the way we like to scratch an itch).
Agreed on all counts, except I haven't seen much Star Trek post-NG. What is that apocryphal trilogy you mentioned, from the novels or one of the later tv series?
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Jul 9, 2019 22:44:10 GMT -5
So, who would win if the Borg took on the Cybermen? I don't know... the merchandisers?
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Jul 9, 2019 23:58:00 GMT -5
So, who would win if the Borg took on the Cybermen? Read this to find out!
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 10, 2019 4:58:29 GMT -5
The Borg were essentially ruined, first by the complete reinterpretation of their nature in First Contact (although the movie did have a lot of success as a space action flick) and by the increasing irrelevance that Voyager kept pushing them into. I never watched Enterprise, but it seemed to have done a lot of continuity twisting... and anyway I’m not surprised that the franchise would by the. have been milked for whatever it was worth, and consistency be damned. It was strategic to turn the Borg into the Aliens, I guess... audiences were familiar with the concept, and a bunch of creepy drones following the commands of a mustache-twirling villain (if only figuratively) is something we can all understand. But just like Galactus at Marvel, the Borg could remain formidable only if they remained the enemy that can’t be defeated; when they appeared, it took some form of cheating to avoid utter destruction. With repeated returns, they became more and more like just another alien species of the week, and with them as with so many creations, familiarity breeds contempt. The original Borg were so unstoppable that they didn’t even bother to defend themselves. They had no feeling to hurt, no ego to defend, no physicality to hurt... they were a quiet nightmare, as implacable as death itself. But by the time we reached the end of Voyager, the Borg queen (ugh, what a bad concept) was just another crazy power-hungry evil character. And the Borg could be defeated by a #$@ holographic doctor. I’m glad the apocryphal trilogy by David Mack in which the Borg meet their end pretty much went back to the original concept. It was too late, but it was a decent last hurrah for a great Trek species. As for Q, I never saw him as malevolent. Whimsical, certainly, but I’m sure he sort of liked us (if only the way we like to scratch an itch).
Agreed on all counts, except I haven't seen much Star Trek post-NG. What is that apocryphal trilogy you mentioned, from the novels or one of the later tv series?
The novels. Mack wrote a trilogy in which we learn the origin of the Borg as a species (which, thankfully, is set in the distant past and is not due to some recent genetic engineering, as is the case nowadays with Ridley Scott’s aliens) and see how their threat finally ends. It does take away from their mystery, but is as satisfying as Diane Duane’s books on the Romulans.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 5:03:05 GMT -5
I'm not saying it's good or bad, but it does seem writers will always give in to the temptation to explain something, give someone/something an origin, etc.
And that can be good. We are a curious species, eh? I confess, the first time I read about Galactus, I was wondering what his story was.
Perhaps the writers are giving us what we want. People, myself included, may sometimes want mystique and mystery, but then again, do we really? I'm forever curious about certain characters. I mean, has Dormammu's origin ever been revealed? I did have a Marvel book years ago that stated his origin was unknown.
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Jul 10, 2019 5:49:20 GMT -5
I'm not saying it's good or bad, but it does seem writers will always give in to the temptation to explain something, give someone/something an origin, etc. And that can be good. We are a curious species, eh? I confess, the first time I read about Galactus, I was wondering what his story was. Perhaps the writers are giving us what we want. People, myself included, may sometimes want mystique and mystery, but then again, do we really? I'm forever curious about certain characters. I mean, has Dormammu's origin ever been revealed? I did have a Marvel book years ago that stated his origin was unknown. Like Roquefort Raider, I think that in some cases it's a bad idea to invent too explicit an origin for a character or concept whose effectiveness partly derives from an aura of mystery and unknowability.
And Dormammu's a case in point because yeah, they did come up with an origin for him and Umar, after the fact - Flames of Faltine that wanted to take on material, corporeal form, was it? - it doesn't really matter what the specifics were because the problem is that there were specifics.
To me, the whole point of the mystic "dimensions" through which Doctor Strange travelled in his astral body and had so many of his adventures in was that it was something beyond every day experience,a kind of dream-world where we never knew what could happen. Perhaps - even probably - it had a logic or rules of its own, but we didn't know what they were, and we couldn't know. Of course I'm speaking of a sort of ideal version of all this that was never fully realised even in my favourite Doctor Strange comics.
But definitely I think Marvel took a wrong step when they came up with an origin for Dormammu and Umar - and to my mind, not even a very interesting one.
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Jul 10, 2019 6:03:48 GMT -5
The Borg was the best thing to happen to the Star Trek Franchise and their appearance brought ST back to life. Of course , the greatness got watered down with constant use. But, That two parter was great.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 6:07:19 GMT -5
So, how would Galactus fare against the Borg? Or Dormammu?
And would the Borg want to assimilate Bizarro World?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 6:54:31 GMT -5
@taxidriver1980 ... When, I watched Star Trek, The Next Generation, the BORG is my most uninformed, too far-fetched, and did not quite grasped it's concept. In short, I did not cared for it and never, ever was a fan of it. When, I watch reruns of that series, I skipped it and move on. I tried to compare it with the Death Star of Star Wars, but couldn't adequately make any sense to me and stopped finding it altogether. Sorry about it.
|
|