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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 13, 2023 9:27:57 GMT -5
Well, I've to say that very few MARVEL/DC crossovers were actually good (IMHO of course). Probably my favorite ones are Batman/Hulk and Superman/Hulk. I've unfortunately read neither of these, but the X-Men/Teen Titans crossover managed to be an excellent issue of X-Men, an excellent issue of Teen Titans, and a pretty darn good New Gods tale as well!!! Highly recommended.
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Post by zaku on Dec 13, 2023 9:48:47 GMT -5
Well, I've to say that very few MARVEL/DC crossovers were actually good (IMHO of course). Probably my favorite ones are Batman/Hulk and Superman/Hulk. I've unfortunately read neither of these, but the X-Men/Teen Titans crossover managed to be an excellent issue of X-Men, an excellent issue of Teen Titans, and a pretty darn good New Gods tale as well!!! Highly recommended. I've to read it again! 🤔
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Post by MDG on Dec 13, 2023 11:04:02 GMT -5
Every couple of years it seems like someone in comics or Hollywood comes up with the "brilliant, fresh" idea to do Alice in Wonderland or Dorothy in Oz, "only it's all creepy and serious and she's actually insane", promoting it as if this were some novel take that we haven't seen over and over again. At least Moore had a different angle: "It's all sexual." Alice, Oz, Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes, all mined to depletion, over and over. Todd MacFarlane did this with a series of toys, and I don't think he even bothered with a backstory to justify it.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Dec 13, 2023 12:29:54 GMT -5
I’m afraid to buy this book.
Mine comes in 3 books actually, in a boxed set in a slipcase. It was a present from someone who heard the name Alan Moore but didn't exactly know what it was.
That's actually kind of hilarious. I wasn't bothered by the use of the characters ... once the authors are long dead and the material has passed into public domain, anything goes so far as I'm concerned. But in this case it was a visually lovely, intellectually overwrought mess.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 13, 2023 17:46:33 GMT -5
I definitely don't need any sexualized or 'adult' Alice in Wonderland or Oz stories (Wicked was enough), but I admit I'm a sucker for a good (or even a not particularly good) Holmes pastiche.
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Post by berkley on Dec 14, 2023 1:58:22 GMT -5
My point exactly: there is a certain number of fans and creators to whom it is of paramount iportance that Superman always be the greatest possible superhero there ever could be. Shooter is one of them and his Nefaria story was, in my view, designed to demonstrate how helpless the Avengers would be if they ever faced the mighty Kryptonian.
This was a deliebrate choice, since there are various versions of Superman and also there are all kinds of different approaches that could be taken - for example, the DC heroes could find themselves powered down while in the MU because that's how things work there. that's just one obvious alternative of many that might have been considered.
OTOH, if you want to have Superman juggling planets then your crossover is just going to devolve into the cheapest kind of fan service, a childish fantasy about how all-powerful Supêrman is.
If the creator's view is that Superman is the ur-superhero and evrything else is a faded imitation, then I would say they're the wrong choice to write such a crossover.
If I remember the Nefaria story correctly, once Thor opened a dimensional gate with the hammer , he was terrified.
Yes, I think I remember that too. I imagine this was Shooter's way of suggesting that, as a villain, Nefaria possessed only the physical power of Superman, not his courage or heroic mentality.
Shooter always seemed to me to show more of a DC-style mentality towards superhero story writing than a Marvel - thinking of the differences in the 1960s, since they became increasingly similar through the 1970s, 80s and onwards. Hence, perhaps, the ham-fistedness of his efforts to produce what he possibly thought were Marvel style scenarios, like the Hank Pym thing? I think he'd have made a great DC editor - in the 1960s, except of course he was much too young then. I shudder to think what he might have tried to do to something like Moore's Swamp Thing in the 1980s - though Miller's Dark Knight he would have been fine with!
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 14, 2023 18:33:54 GMT -5
Hawkeye. From early on since his appearance in 1964 in TOS 57 , he was always called Hawkeye. No one knew his real name . Until Avengers # 64 in 1969. This means all his teammates and his lover, Natasha Romanov had to call him Hawkeye until he became Goliath.
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Post by Prince Hal on Dec 14, 2023 21:43:33 GMT -5
Hawkeye. From early on since his appearance in 1964 in TOS 57 , he was always called Hawkeye. No one knew his real name . Until Avengers # 64 in 1969. This means all his teammates and his lover, Natasha Romanov had to call him Hawkeye until he became Goliath. It worked for Benjamin Franklin Pierce. BTW, in the old days of comics, the name "Clint," along with the word "flick," would have been if not taboo, avoided at all costs b/c of what other words they might resemble if the printing was messy (as it very often was). Leave it to Rascally Roy to violate the taboo.
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Post by Cei-U! on Dec 15, 2023 5:10:21 GMT -5
Hawkeye. From early on since his appearance in 1964 in TOS 57 , he was always called Hawkeye. No one knew his real name . Until Avengers # 64 in 1969. This means all his teammates and his lover, Natasha Romanov had to call him Hawkeye until he became Goliath. It worked for Benjamin Franklin Pierce. BTW, in the old days of comics, the name "Clint," along with the word "flick," would have been if not taboo, avoided at all costs b/c of what other words they might resemble if the printing was messy (as it very often was). Leave it to Rascally Roy to violate the taboo. This may explain why both DC and Marvel passed on my Clint Flicker, Private Eye proposal.
Cei-U! I summon the rejection letters!
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 15, 2023 7:28:18 GMT -5
It worked for Benjamin Franklin Pierce. BTW, in the old days of comics, the name "Clint," along with the word "flick," would have been if not taboo, avoided at all costs b/c of what other words they might resemble if the printing was messy (as it very often was). Leave it to Rascally Roy to violate the taboo. This may explain why both DC and Marvel passed on my Clint Flicker, Private Eye proposal.
Cei-U! I summon the rejection letters!
Ha. I see what you did there...
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 21, 2023 5:07:32 GMT -5
Another day on set
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Post by zaku on Dec 21, 2023 10:49:10 GMT -5
Another day on set Everyone says that Superman starred in a porn movie, but if I remember correctly the bad guy couldn't make him do anything, right?
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 25, 2023 6:39:17 GMT -5
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Post by chadwilliam on Dec 26, 2023 15:12:10 GMT -5
Another day on set Everyone says that Superman starred in a porn movie, but if I remember correctly the bad guy couldn't make him do anything, right? That's right. The page following this one has Sleeze acknowledging that he can't get Superman to do anything he wouldn't want to and then Mr. Miracle breaks in. It's clear that Superman hasn't done anything other than kiss Barda before Miracle puts a stop to it. Barda, however, did star in a porno since, well, this is John Byrne and Mike Carlin so I guess that secretly, it's what she always wanted to do.
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 26, 2023 20:06:25 GMT -5
Everyone says that Superman starred in a porn movie, but if I remember correctly the bad guy couldn't make him do anything, right? That's right. The page following this one has Sleeze acknowledging that he can't get Superman to do anything he wouldn't want to and then Mr. Miracle breaks in. It's clear that Superman hasn't done anything other than kiss Barda before Miracle puts a stop to it. Barda, however, did star in a porno since, well, this is John Byrne and Mike Carlin so I guess that secretly, it's what she always wanted to do. Nah, it just means that she's free about having sex. Superman is a Boy Scout.
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