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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 17:10:13 GMT -5
Just seen the latest episode. The mention of "The Helix Institute" made me smile, but I thought it was just an inconsequential easter egg. Then Nurse Love's name was revealed. Then she phoned Mister Bones. I am indescribably happy. Mister Bones!
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 17:03:03 GMT -5
Why does everything have to become about politics these days? ...this isn't a politics thing, it's very much that he has some incredibly ugly views. Homophobia is bad. Period. Antisemitism is bad. Period. Racism is bad. Period. These are not points that are open to discussion. What's his art like?
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 17:01:04 GMT -5
I don't have to "reflect" on anything, and you are still totally ignoring what I consider the single most significant fact that the characters personal history and continuity have been changed! Continuity and history define character, as far as I'm concerned. They don't though, personality traits are what define both characters and people ... but heck even if we go with history it's not a salient point as it has been pointed out already that there are hundreds, if not thousands of people who have lived most of their lives with the world seeing them as straight only for them to decide to reveal that they are gay later on in life so it's not unrealistic or poor writing for a fictional character to do the same. So yeah, this really does come down to a you thing and not a problem with the character itself. Again, it's acceptable to feel like such a move is a hollow marketing move...but it's not okay to see homosexuality itself to be a negative which is how you are coming off. it's nothing to do with homosexuality in itself, why are you not getting this? It would be exactly the same if a character who had been presented as gay for twenty years was suddenly straight. It's about continuity! Even if I could accept that these characters were hiding something about themselves from every other character for decades, they'd still have known it themselves and addressed it in their inner monologues. It's ludicrous.
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 16:56:24 GMT -5
How could anyone think Christopher Priest was "obscure"? I had never heard of him until the Nolan film came out and I'm a pretty well read sci-fi guy. Loved his stuff since I found Indoctrinaire in my local library when I was in my teens.
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 16:46:32 GMT -5
So, this Alan Scott? Like so many other gay people whom we just never realized were gay? I still don't get the big deal. But that's me, I guess. Because he wasn't gay before, so he shouldn't be now. Not one thought balloon in the seventies, eighties, nineties or noughties even hinted at it. His personal continuity has been changed! Why are people not getting this? I am a completist when it comes to my favourite characters. I have every appearance Alan Scott (and Jay Garrick, and Ted Grant, and as far as I have been able to establish Carter Hall) have made since at least 1970, if not earlier. And Alan wasn't gay in any of them. Not until the Earth 2 series, and that was Alan in name only.This matters. Continuity matters.
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 16:41:11 GMT -5
You seem to be either misunderstanding or ignoring the point. He has been changed because he wasn't gay before. It was never suggested anywhere, even in the characters own thoughts as printed on the page, for decades. Therefore, his history, his personal continuity, has changed. That is what matters to me, that is my priority. He's not the same character anymore. And whether you think it's right or not, I can no longer relate to him the same way. I'm not ignoring or misunderstanding anything...being gay doesn't change any of your personal traits, and its the same for fictional characters. Alan (or Tim Drake or Jon)isn't any less heroic because he's gay. He's not any less brave because he's gay. He doesn't lose that dry sense of humor because he's gay. And those are the important attributes that define his character...so if they haven't changed well, the only thing you have a problem with is his sexuality which isn't a negative attribute for Alan as a character...but rather a negative attribute to ones world view that you personally have to reflect on. I don't have to "reflect" on anything, and you are still totally ignoring what I consider the single most significant fact that the characters personal history and continuity have been changed! Continuity and history define character, as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 16:22:28 GMT -5
You seem to be either misunderstanding or ignoring the point. He has been changed because he wasn't gay before. It was never suggested anywhere, even in the characters own thoughts as printed on the psge, for decades. Therefore, his history, his personal continuity, has changed. That is what matters to me, that is my priority. He's not the same character anymore. And whether you think it's right or not, I can no longer relate to him the same way. Based on what? There is absolutely no indication of his sexuality in those old Golden Age comics. No, I haven't read them a ll, but I'm pretty sure he never married, never had kids. All that stuff was retconned (off-screen, for that matter) as well. Did that change him from the Alan Scott you knew? I guess you're glad the Idris Elba James Bond hasn't happened, because as we all know, Bond is Connery... er, Moore.... er, Craig. Checking out now. No more points to make, too much life to live. Why do people keep mentioning the Golden Age stuff? My Alan Scott is the character I have been reading about since the seventies, the forty five years or so in which the majority of his actual character development happened, mostly in the eighties and nineties. Alan Scott, veteran superhero and married man with a wife and kids. That's "my" Alan Scott. That's what we've lost. That's what matters.
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 16:14:32 GMT -5
He should never have taken the name of well known British SF writer Christopher Priest. I presume he did it out of ignorance, but he should have dropped it as soon as he was made aware that it was the name of an established author, no matter how obscure he might have mistakenly thought that person's work to be. How could anyone think Christopher Priest was "obscure"?
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 16:05:46 GMT -5
It really boggles my mind that enough fans still support events to keep them viable. I started backing away from event books very early in my comic reading experience. I remember seeing it for what it was as far back as X-Tinction Agenda in X-Men (which I just gave up on and ignored in regards to the titles I wasn't reading) and the first Infinity Gauntlet crossover (ditto). This gimmick never worked on me. The very concept is anathema to how I want to engage with these characters. It's not an "event", it's just an out of continuity limited series.
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 16:02:18 GMT -5
I can't honestly think of anything from the Big Two that I don't already have or want; besides, I've literally got thousands of issues to catch up on. When I get my collection sorted, YES this summer !, I'll know what holes to fill and that's mostly it. In the last couple of months I've even weaned away from the comics news sites I used to go to daily, like CBR or Newsarama, and the occasional Comics Beat. They've screwed themselves. I like some of the fresh indies, but even those I have to catch up reading. Love the TwoMorrows' Jack Kirby Collector, Back Issue, and Alter Ego, but need to catch up on those too. I haven't felt real Marvel love since the 80's and was with DC up until Levitz left, and it's been downhill since then, and now, I'm out. Oh yeah, gotta get caught up on Valiant. Still like their superhero reads, plus Dark Horse's Black Hammer-verse. I defy anyone who has read Immortal Hulk, or the last few years of Ms Marvel, or Donny Cates's Thor, to tell me that Marvel don't still put out good comics, and I could name several current DC's that I consider as good as or better than anything they published under Levitz.
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 15:57:33 GMT -5
I hate to second shaxper emotion but I don't care if both the big two go away. Maybe I'm being a grumpy old man but I feel they told all the stories they can tell with the characters that debuted before the 2000's. I don't see a Watchmen or Dark Knight type story in their future, just more of the same. Since I'm still enjoying a lot of their new material, I really can't agree.
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 15:56:14 GMT -5
I honestly wouldn't weep at this point if DC and Marvel both shut down their print comics. I get that costs are rising, the market is small, and the business seems unsustainable. In the long term, I think we'd get them licensing out the characters to another publisher that could do a better job of innovating/marketing so long as it didn't mess with the franchise's marketability for films, TV, and merchandise. Maybe we'd see Digest and Magazine anthologies of new stories featuring our favorite characters, new every two months, at check-out counters nationwide. Only "nationwide"? Cheers for that...
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 15:54:31 GMT -5
Why does everything have to become about politics these days?
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 15:41:36 GMT -5
No, it is a completely understandable reaction, because that character HAS been changed and is no longer the character I related to. Did you miss the part about being privy to the characters innermost thoughts? That's what thought balloons did. We knew exactly who Alan Scott thought he was and how he felt for decades. If he actually was gay all that time, I think he'd have mentioned it at least once, at least to himself. He hasn't been changed though, like I said does being bi make him less heroic? Is he less intelligent now that he likes men and women? Is he less funny? Those are the characteristics that defined the character...and literally (underlined and enlarged because it's not hyperbole but the actual literal fact)none of them change just because his sexual identity did. You seem to be either misunderstanding or ignoring the point. He has been changed because he wasn't gay before. It was never suggested anywhere, even in the characters own thoughts as printed on the page, for decades. Therefore, his history, his personal continuity, has changed. That is what matters to me, that is my priority. He's not the same character anymore. And whether you think it's right or not, I can no longer relate to him the same way.
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 13, 2021 13:28:39 GMT -5
(...) being privy to the characters innermost thoughts? That's what thought balloons did. That's my main gripe about the Gwen Stacy/Norman Osborn story. No, wait. My main gripe is that it's yucky. But my second main gripe is that we knew what Gwen was thinking at the time, and neither Osborn nor Gwen's pregnancy ever showedo up in those thought balloons. You are aware that story has just been addressed and retconned out, yes?
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