rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Feb 3, 2016 14:26:15 GMT -5
Also, why would Vader (and, by extension, the Emperor) want Luke dead anyway? It was made clear in The Empire Strikes Back that Vader and his master had decided to try to recruit Luke to their cause and turn him to the dark side of the Force. For someone who was so keen to ensure that Luke got back to the Emporer in one piece during the events of The Empire Strikes Back, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that Vader would sanction an assassination attempt on his son. Still, it's kinda neat that Vader's backup scheme was to have Luke ostracised from the Rebellion, with nowhere else to turn but to him and the Emperor. I have a theory about that: Vader was testing Luke the entire time to see if he was worthy of joining him. As far as Shira knows her mission is indeed to kill or discredit Luke. What she doesn't know is that Vader is essentially using her as a pawn towards another purpose; if Luke is resourceful enough and clever enough to figure out a way to figure out an escape from this trap then he truly is Vader's son. If he fails he isn't worth recruiting in the first place. You know I think this might be the only occasion in the entire Marvel run we see a mind trick used on a woman. In fact I don't think we've ever seen it happen in the new films, Clone Wars or Rebels. Strange that.
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Feb 1, 2016 7:07:53 GMT -5
Kind of sorry to have missed the introduction of Plif but I will say I never liked Shira (admittedly I was spoilt befoe ever reading her stories, both because I knew how she'd turn out and because I got into Star Wars fiction through the Timothy Zahn books - Mara Jade for the win! ) See, for me, I was reading the whole Shira Brie story arc as it came out and Luke seemingly killing Shira and it being revealed that she was an Imperial spy was really pretty shocking to a 9 or 10-year-old reader, which I was back in 1982. So, from my perspective, I've always found Mara Jade to be somewhat of a poor man's Shira, although she's different enough to be pretty interesting in her own right. I particularly loved how Zahn revealed that Mara Jade had been shadowing Luke for years and was even in the crowd of Jabba's court during the events of Return of the Jedi, waiting for a chance to strike. Zahn actually wrote up a short story about Mara's time in Jabba's court for the anthology Tales From Jabba's Palace (which is a fun read if you can find it.) I think the difference between Mara and Shira is that Mara only really gets to know Luke after the Empire fell, so while she was shadowing him it wasn't the same sort of betrayal as Shira, whom we can presume faked her feelings with Luke. That makes it easier to like Mara (like as a person I mean; I like Shira as a character but I wouldn't want to have a drink with her!) It's also kind of cool that Shira seems to be Vader's particular agent while Mara is loyal to the Emperor... even though their personalities are more like those of the other's master. Shira is a cunning manipulator, hiding behind a benign image like Palpatine while Mara is a closed off warrior, broiling with emotion below the surface like Vader. Of course I may be overthinking that!
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Jan 31, 2016 19:48:14 GMT -5
Great to see this thread continuing. I've been too busy to check it recently. Kind of sorry to have missed the introduction of Plif but I will say I never liked Shira (admittedly I was spoilt befoe ever reading her stories, both because I knew how she'd turn out and because I got into Star Wars fiction through the Timothy Zahn books - Mara Jade for the win! )
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Oct 23, 2015 6:06:26 GMT -5
Great reviews of great issues Confessor. I'm trying to catch up!
I think #50 closes a chapter of sorts with the last sighting of the Tagge family. Domina wasn't my favourite villain and I understand the desire not to overuse her but at the same the Tagges were maybe the main contribution the Marvel comics have made to the Star Wars universe to this point. Anyway, a great story and a great swansong. Perhaps my only quibble is how the Rebels seem uninterested in seizing the powerful Star Destroyer for themselves.
#51 is another fine issue. The idea of conspiratorial Imperial officers would show up a lot in the later Expanded Universe but this is probably the first sign we see of it.
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Oct 19, 2015 9:10:07 GMT -5
I'm Irish not American and I get the reference! Courtship has a strong streak of romance to it; it is the story were Han wins a planet in a sabaac game for Leia after all, but there is a lot of action and humour to it. It isn't my favourite book in the series - I love the Thrawn books more - but it is fun. Speaking of the Star Wars currently I'm re-reading Tales From Jabba's Palace (the set of short stories set in... well Jabba the Hutt's palace.) If you can find a cheap copy somewhere it is worth it to see a recognisably Star Wars setting from different viewpoints. Ha! Serves me right for assuming that you were American. The vast majority of posters here are. I'm from the UK myself, south east England...just outside of London. I think I've read bits of Tales From Jabba's Palace. I'm pretty sure a friend of mine had it years ago and I read two or three of the short stories in it. Isn't there a story about Boba Fett trying to put the moves on Leia in her metal bikini? I seem to remember him trying to coerce her into having sex with him and she says something along the lines of, "if you touch me, one of us won't be leaving this room alive." Just a vague memory I have of it. Dubliner myself. I think you are thinking of a story from Tales of the Bounty Hunters which does have a Boba Fett story (also worth reading IMO.) Jabba's Palace is the one with a weirdly sweet story about the Rancor keeper we see in Jedi ('A Boy and his Monster'). The Boba Fett story in Jabba's Palace is mostly about how he escaped from the Sarlaac, though it also has one of my favourite Star Wars EU scenes where Fett persuades Jabba to pay more for Han in carbonite because it is an example of Darth Vader's art ("The grimace is quite wonderful".)
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Oct 18, 2015 5:29:44 GMT -5
And yes reading the issue again Luke did come across as unlikable and Leia a little strange. The Courtship of Princess Leia, one of the EU novels has 'Leia is courted by a handsome space prince' done much better, though it helps that Han is actually in that story. I never read that book. After loving the Thrawn trilogy, I was disappointed with The Truce at Bakura and when I picked up The Courtship of Princess Leia in the book shop, I thought the synopsis on the back cover made it sound like Mills & Boon in space! Needless to say, I passed the book by. Edit: I just thought, I'm not sure an American would get the Mills & Boon reference, so here's a helpful link... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mills_%26_BoonI'm Irish not American and I get the reference! Courtship has a strong streak of romance to it; it is the story were Han wins a planet in a sabaac game for Leia after all, but there is a lot of action and humour to it. It isn't my favourite book in the series - I love the Thrawn books more - but it is fun. Speaking of the Star Wars currently I'm re-reading Tales From Jabba's Palace (the set of short stories set in... well Jabba the Hutt's palace.) If you can find a cheap copy somewhere it is worth it to see a recognisably Star Wars setting from different viewpoints.
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Oct 17, 2015 6:08:31 GMT -5
Those are some good points Confessor. I guess I think Marvel had gone to the well of 'influential planet the Empire must walk on eggshells not to offend' a little too often for my tastes - we saw something similar with the Wheel, then with Monastery and now with Aargau. I think I'd have prefered a backwater like Tatooine where the Empire has a loose presence because the world is too unimportant.
And yes reading the issue again Luke did come across as unlikable and Leia a little strange. The Courtship of Princess Leia, one of the EU novels has 'Leia is courted by a handsome space prince' done much better, though it helps that Han is actually in that story.
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Oct 15, 2015 8:42:17 GMT -5
Another great review Confessor. One thing I like about the Marvel run is there willingness to use female villains, something which the films never quite managed (though the later Expanded Universe did - Ysanne Isard was a great villainess.) Here we see Captain Traal and a few issues back we saw a woman commanding a whole fleet. Plus of course Kharys the Majestrix of Skye! I liked #49 a bit more than you did, but yeah Jedidiah's backstory is strange. Marvel sometimes seemed to have difficulty deciding how powerful and omnipresent the Empire actually is. Back in #30 ( A Princess Alone!) the Empire controlled every aspect of life on a planet, yet in other issues it seems so weak that it has to obey local laws, or at least appear to, to get anything done at all. #36 ( Red Queen Rising!) is a great example of this were the Empire has to compete openly with its own rebels for diplomatic presence!
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Oct 12, 2015 11:36:55 GMT -5
Oh I agree about the faults, though I do like it more. I do disagree about the 'huge ship from nowhere' aspect though in Star Wars #38. For me that felt far more Star Trek; the Star Wars Galaxy has a lot of strange stuff but it is also an intergalactic civilisation that has been settled for thousands of years and has its own powerful but non-flashy mystical rules (the Force). Even in the films there are a lot of monsters (wampas, the rancor, the sarlaac, etc.) and dangerous alien tribes (the Sand People and even the Ewoks) but they seem out of the way, on the fringes of the vast Galactic Empire and the Republic before that. Bizarre, godlike beings don't seem to quite fit IMO. (emphasis mine)...and yet, the various authors who have contributed to the Star Wars "expanded universe" have done things like this on a number of occasions -- not least in the "Truce at Bakura" book which introduced the Ssi-Ruuk race and later with the whole Yuuzhan Vong invasion thing. Both of those races, I believe I'm right in saying, invaded the SW galaxy from outside. In fact, I think I read on Wookiepedia a while back that later authors have tried to tie the events of Star Wars #38 to the Yuuzhan Vong. "Riders in the Void!" did feel more Star Trek-y though, I'll concede that point. ...and more than a little Alien-esque, as I mentioned in my review. I suppose for me the difference was that the Ssi-Ruuk and the Yuuzhan Vong, while both having unusual technology still play by Star Wars 'rules' - they are no more intelligent or individually powerful than any number of alien races living in the Republic and/or Empire. They are humanoid (velociraptoroid for the Ssi-Ruuk?). They have understandable civilizations and there is no difficulty getting inside their heads. If anything they are more like the Mongols invading China, or the Huns attacking Rome - outsiders with barbarian ways but not significantly different from the Tusken Raiders or the like except in sheer power and number. Likewise I don't have much issue with the Nagai. Likewise I think something like the Q (from Star Trek the Next Generation) would be radically out of place in the Star Wars setting.
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Oct 11, 2015 19:29:34 GMT -5
I suppose my view might be a little coloured by the later Expanded Universe depictions of Lando (and the current canonical comics) but I suppose young Lando idolizing an out and out Rebel hero just feels a little jarring to me. Again that is almost more appropriate to Luke than the scoundrelish Lando; he's obviously a man with some personal standards and loyalties but that is going too far in the other direction. I also think that the story just doesn't feel like a great narrative use of what Lando brings to the mix. As I said before he's a charming con man; shouldn't he be on a swashbuckling espionage type adventure? I do understand the need to intergrate him into the crew and obviously the ending of Empire means he is looking for Han but yeah, the sheer anger and angst feel more like a Luke or Leia story. Heh, reading your review of #48 Confessor I think maybe my idea of a good Lando story might not seem Star Wars-y enough! I liked The Third Law more than you did, even if I found it flawed in a lot of places but I have a soft spot for that kind of espionage story, especially served with a dash of humour. The Marvel stories has gone in some weird directions and I'd probably label the Comic Horror style #38 ( Riders in the Void!) a far stranger fit. Yeah, you see, I had much less of a problem with Star Wars #38. It wasn't wholly in keeping with the spirit of the films, but a huge organic space craft from another galaxy feels a little more Star Wars-y to me than a banking fraud thriller, which is kind of what "The Third Law" was. I do have a soft spot for that story though because I liked it so much as a kid. But as I've grown older, its faults have really become more and more obvious to me. Oh I agree about the faults, though I do like it more. I do disagree about the 'huge ship from nowhere' aspect though in Star Wars #38. For me that felt far more Star Trek; the Star Wars Galaxy has a lot of strange stuff but it is also an intergalactic civilisation that has been settled for thousands of years and has its own powerful but non-flashy mystical rules (the Force). Even in the films there are a lot of monsters (wampas, the rancor, the sarlaac, etc.) and dangerous alien tribes (the Sand People and even the Ewoks) but they seem out of the way, on the fringes of the vast Galactic Empire and the Republic before that. Bizarre, godlike beings don't seem to quite fit IMO.
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Oct 11, 2015 18:18:04 GMT -5
That said I do have some serious issues with the portrayal of Lando in #46 as a humourless, rage filled Rebellion fanatic. I know it is very soon after the end of Empire but honestly he feels off to me, misused. Lando is a con man and debonair figure, the stylish pragmatist to Han Solo's cocky pirate. His eyes might have been opened to the nature of the Empire and I'm sure he feels all sorts of guilt but shouldn't he be a little too world wise and cynical for this? If anything it feels more like very early Luke. I think Marvel struggled with working out what to do with Lando for a while. Yeah, Marvel was kind of suddenly stuck with this new character that only appeared in the second half of the movie. Do Luke and Leia trust him? What about the alliance? When Mary Jo Duffy takes over, she makes him into a really strong interesting character. Hmmm....I've gotta say that I disagree with you guys on this. I think DeMatteis got Lando's character pretty much spot on and I certainly have no issue with these early appearances and Jo Dyffy's later portrayal of the character. For one thing, in the Wookiee's first post- Empire appearance in issue #46, I like the fact that Chewbacca is still a little suspicious of his new partner and his motives, which is something I made note of in my review. Also, it's a nice touch that Lando's first thought upon discovering Sunn-Childe's realm is how he can turn a quick profit from the situation. Again, that feels very in character to me and a good example of the "con man" and "stylish pragmatist" that you mentioned, rossn. I also don't feel as if DeMatteis was portraying Lando as a "rage filled Rebellion fanatic". He's simply portrayed in that issue as a man who is exasperated at his childhood hero's reluctance to fight against the Empire like he once did. In addition, he's also puzzled and angered by the guy's lack of courage, or what he perceives as his lack of courage. Lando's a man who has had his eyes opened to the Empire's cruelty and has sided with the Rebellion, although as a savvy businessman, Lando would surely have known what was happening in the galaxy outside of Cloud City anyway. So yeah, I don't really see anything amiss with Lando's character in Star Wars #46. I suppose my view might be a little coloured by the later Expanded Universe depictions of Lando (and the current canonical comics) but I suppose young Lando idolizing an out and out Rebel hero just feels a little jarring to me. Again that is almost more appropriate to Luke than the scoundrelish Lando; he's obviously a man with some personal standards and loyalties but that is going too far in the other direction. I also think that the story just doesn't feel like a great narrative use of what Lando brings to the mix. As I said before he's a charming con man; shouldn't he be on a swashbuckling espionage type adventure? I do understand the need to intergrate him into the crew and obviously the ending of Empire means he is looking for Han but yeah, the sheer anger and angst feel more like a Luke or Leia story. Heh, reading your review of #48 Confessor I think maybe my idea of a good Lando story might not seem Star Wars-y enough! I liked The Third Law more than you did, even if I found it flawed in a lot of places but I have a soft spot for that kind of espionage story, especially served with a dash of humour. The Marvel stories has gone in some weird directions and I'd probably label the Comic Horror style #38 ( Riders in the Void!) a far stranger fit.
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Oct 9, 2015 6:07:35 GMT -5
I've been away for a while so when I came back I checked this thread. Hadn't realised you'd reached the post- Empire comics yet! Overall I like them so far - I had no idea Kligson and Droid World came from the Marvel comics. I thought they were created for the West End Games Star Wars RPG! That said I do have some serious issues with the portrayal of Lando in #46 as a humourless, rage filled Rebellion fanatic. I know it is very soon after the end of Empire but honestly he feels off to me, misused. Lando is a con man and debonair figure, the stylish pragmatist to Han Solo's cocky pirate. His eyes might have been opened to the nature of the Empire and I'm sure he feels all sorts of guilt but shouldn't he be a little too world wise and cynical for this? If anything it feels more like very early Luke. I think Marvel struggled with working out what to do with Lando for a while.
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Sept 12, 2015 15:18:53 GMT -5
James Bartholomew Olsen
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Sept 12, 2015 14:55:13 GMT -5
I'm pretty excited to see the new movie, but that's it. I tried the first two issues of Marvel's new SW comic, but dropped it, feeling that it was pretty substandard and not wholly in line with the events of the original trilogy, continuity-wise. I haven't had any interest in buying or collecting SW toys since about 1985, when I turned 13. Darth Vader and Lando are pretty good IMO, both better than the 'main' title. Though take that with a grain of salt - as I said I'm a big fan of the old Expanded Universe which makes me biased. I'm just not sure which way I'm biased - either it makes me predisposed to like more Star Wars stories or enrages me that Heir to the Empire, X-Wing: Rogue Squadron, etc, etc. are no longer canon. Maybe it evens out.
|
|
rossn
Full Member
Posts: 173
|
Post by rossn on Sept 12, 2015 14:49:36 GMT -5
I'm Irish and therefore I don't have a vote one way or another (though I have American relatives) but from an outsider perspective she comes across as somehow a little mediocre - uninspiring and surprisingly unsavvy for someone who has been around politics as long as she has.
That said from a selfish perspective her winning would be good for Ireland. Both Clintons are strong Hibernophiles.
|
|