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Post by String on Aug 2, 2021 14:54:25 GMT -5
In trying to post my latest update/thoughts on my re-re-read, I have been interrupted twice, once by a power outage so I'll make this semi-short.
Finished all of Church & State.
Bran's actions here are baffling to me, especially his last act. Why do that? Thrunk shows up as the False Pope and Bran's reaction is...that. Was he afraid the people had lost faith in Cerebus? (and so quickly too!) Had he lost faith as well? I keep thinking that, that his reaction was a sign of the weakness of his faith in the Earth-Pig Born especially in the face of a giant stone fist punching through the hotel wall.
As Pope, Cerebus commits quite a few despicable acts though the one that stands out for me occurs during his last visit with Weisshaupt. The Pope, slapping him in the face, condemning him to hell, while on his deathbed, praying for absolution. That's some powerful imagery right there, very unsettling.
The rape of Astoria was still as difficult to read as before though I had forgotten how she had lead him on prior to that act. It adds a layer of moral quagmire to the act with her teasing suggestions seemingly giving Cerebus free will to do as she suggests but her being shackled, gagged and blindfolded makes the defilement even worse. Astoria's choice of words here is interesting, helping him with 'one of his acquired tastes'. As seen previously in interactions with Sophia, when did Cerebus become interested in sex?
Cerebus making the act 'legal' by hastily marrying them is shameful though it makes the Judges' last remark to Cerebus as he leaves the moon all the more poignant, if you feel your suffering to be unjustified, remember your second marriage. That's cold.
This is the only time so far that I've ever read anything involving the Flaming Carrot. Although I'm given to understand that he had some kind of back up feature previously in the issues?
Onward to Jaka's Story.
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Post by String on Aug 2, 2021 14:33:27 GMT -5
Byrne, by a country mile, for a couple of reasons.
Simply put, I enjoy Bryne's art more, he has one of the most distinctive art styles ever in the medium. As a youth, he and Perez were the art foundations of the Big Two for me so I'm always going to be drawn to his output. As for writing, his work on FF helped make me a lifelong fan of the family and urged me to seek out the history of the title either through back issues or the Official FF Index title. Alpha Flight focused on a country and culture that I was not all that exposed to as a kid. For me, Byrne IS THE definitive X-Men artist. In fact, he is responsible for the two most shocking deaths I read as a kid: Jean Grey and James Hudson.
As for Starlin, I think of him more as a writer than an artist, mainly because my first big exposure to him was his return to Marvel in the 80s-90s with his work on Silver Surfer, Infinity Gauntlet, Infinity War, etc. His writing was good however he was usually paired with Ron Lim for the art, so for me, Ron Lim is the top cosmic artist of Marvel. (Yes, I said that).
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Post by String on Jul 26, 2021 12:38:57 GMT -5
Bomber jackets are cool.
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Post by String on Jul 24, 2021 11:43:53 GMT -5
I made a quick search of the release dates of Avengers # 161 and MTU #59. MTU came out a week after the Avengers book. I have both books but don't remember if there's something stating which story comes first in continuity. Stern wasn't responsible for the break up of Jan and Hank. That happened during the Fall of Yellowjacket storyline. 211- 230. And I agree that Shooter probably outlined that they not reconcile. These characters are all subject to whatever the story requires, Especially the second tier ones. Regarding Claremont & Byrne's MTU 2-parter, my impression was that Claremont may have heard what Shooter was doing, got pissed off about it, and decided he'd show Mr. "BECAUSE I SAID SO DAMMIT" what he thought of his willful abuse of a character 2 previous writers had worked hard to bring back out of retirement.
I'm pretty sure it was discussed on the letters pages.
Remember, Claremont also got pissed off about AVENGERS #200 and did AVENGERS ANNUAL #10 as a rebuttal.
I kind of assumed that Roger Stern (who these days, I don't really think was so great, but lucked into being NOWHERE near as bad as those who came just before or after him) was ordered, "Hank & Jan MUST get a divorce-- DO NOT have them reconcile". It just caught my notice later, when I noticed he'd been involved in at least 3 long-time relationships "permanently" breaking up.
In my view, "The Fall of Yellowjacket" is simply a story that NEVER should have happened. You know... like... "Identity Crisis". (Remember THAT one?) Or... Kevin Dooley's version of "Emerald Twilight". Or whatever that thing was that Mark Gruenwald FIRED Stern off AVENGERS for while Walt Simonson was happy to just phone it in and take the money without giving a S***.
Too much of corporate comics have become "Let's F*** over our characters!" instead of "Let's tell GREAT adventure stories!"
Avengers Annual #10 is another writer's misstep. Claremont presents a condemnation of Avengers #200 (and rightfully so) in a holier-than-thou speech given by Carol but he loses this vaunted moral high ground right from the get-go within the first two pages of this issue by having Carol psychically raped by Rogue, yet another tragic event suffered by this character, one that Claremont mines for dramatic conflict for nigh on a decade afterwards. So only Claremont can decide how best to abuse Carol then?
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Post by String on Jul 24, 2021 11:34:51 GMT -5
I'm ready to buy the story according to which Bob Hall decided to make the scene more dramatic by having Hank willfully hit Jan, but Jim is the one who chose to run with the art as it was. "It was too late to change it?" Nah. It was apparently not too late for Jean Grey to be killed instead of depowered in X-Men #137, even though the book was already pencilled and the change required much more than one or two panels! Shooter had it in for Hank & Jan since his first run on the book, when out of left field, he had Hank have a nervous breakdown and attack the entire group as Ant-Man. (I always remember that as the period when George Perez finally stopped having obvious drawing errrors in his art.)
In THE DEFENDERS, Steve Gerber did a very nice job bringing Hank out of retirement. Soon after, Steve Englehart made a point of having him & Jan rejoin THE AVENGERS. Then Gerry Conway ran Englehart off the book (and out of the company-- Steve really over-reacted, I feel), but was gone before you could blink, so Shooter picked up 3 of his books.
Right after that "Ant-Man goes insane" story, Chris Claremont did a 2-part MARVEL TEAM-UP to rebut it, in which he showcased Hank & Jan, giving Jan a major upgrade to her powers.
So when Shooter returned much later, and the very first thing he did was F*** over their marriage... I was very annoyed.
My impression was that Roger Stern, who was left with finishing off Shooter's mess, was ordered not to have Hank & Jan reconcile.
Of course, it could have been something else. Years later, I noticed that Stern was responsible for stories in which Stephen Strange & Clea broke up... Peter Parker & MJ decided they "shouldn't" be a couple... and Hank & Jan's marriage disintegreated, "permanently". I began to wonder if Stern just had a thing against happy longtime romances.
Some have said the Hank & Jan problem goes back to Roy Thomas, who wrote them as if they were completely different characters during his long run on THE AVENGERS. He made Hank unstable, and Jan turned into an IDIOT. No matter how flightly and fun-loving she was earlier, she was NEVER an idiot in the original ANT-MAN AND THE WASP series in TALES TO ASTONISH.
Having read those Avengers issues recently for the first time, I actually liked how Thomas handled Hank Pym. He did seem more confident and sure of himself. The incidents with the creation of Ultron and his Yellowjacket identity appeared to be more of isolated incidents under Thomas than anything. Shooter decided to connect the dots and turn those events into something more linear. Yes, Shooter may have turned Hank into a wife-beater but that fit underneath the larger umbrella of Shooter making Pym insane in the membrane earlier which I consider the larger crime. Pym under Thomas' penmanship seemed a far different character, one which I'd rather read more of frankly.
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Post by String on Jun 23, 2021 14:06:03 GMT -5
Thor & Odin: So Be It!
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Post by String on Jun 23, 2021 14:05:34 GMT -5
Sylvester the cat: Suffering succotash! Did Daffy Duck ever say that too? I remember many moons ago on the original TV game show Press Your Luck, they had a question that asked for the cartoon character who used that as a catchphrase. I thought it was Sylvester but they accepted Daffy as an answer!
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Post by String on Jun 23, 2021 13:57:18 GMT -5
Finished High Society so a few more thoughts upon conclusion:
First, why sideways? I could understand doing this for an issue or two but Sims does it for seven issues. Is there some underlying symbolism I'm missing here or was he simply expanding his horizons (so to speak since all the panels are rendered vertically) in using this particular format or something else entirely?
Second, I agree for the most part in that if you gonna start reading Cerebus, this volume should be first however, in doing so, you kinda undercut part of the joy of the reveal of who the invading army is here at the end. I read High Society first many years ago and so thought it was merely ironic that Cerebus apparently knew who the invaders were. Since reading Cerebus though, I tend now to laugh along with Cerebus when he learns the truth. The sad part? His initial plans for and with this army worked! They reached Iest! Oh what joyous irony!
Last, I have to touch upon the only weak spot I have with this volume, the sub-plot dealing with (to borrow the phrase) 'the dam duck sta'choo!' The more I think upon it, the more this plot seems superfluous overall. It seems to be brought up occasionally just to remind us how the church is still involved in affairs. But since the focus of this volume seems to be politics, campaigns, and the pitfalls of government, it seems incongruous to keep referencing this plot since it bears little impact upon the actual proceedings.
The way I understand it, whosoever holds the 'dam duck sta'choo!' can unite the Eastern & Western churches under one single Pontiff but only if the Church undertakes the Exodus Inward which happens when the Grand Inquistor is crushed underneath a crescent boulder thrown by Cootie. Since this happens fairly early in the volume, doesn't that mean Astoria was still directing Cootie on whom to take out? So Astoria was part of this plot by having the Grand Inquistor murdered?
So the McGrew brothers were pawns in this plot as well? Why else would they kidnap Cerebus? Cerebus learns something of this plot when he interrogates those priests he got drunk but Jaka's comments to him on the matter makes it seem far more serious than those priests let on. And how exactly did Cerebus acquire it (unknowingly) at the end? He mentions the package he received from 'that artist'. Which artist? The only one I remember is the artist from Cerebus who had the first Apocalypse beast, who had arrived at Pentuniacon to draw sketches for Elrod. The only package I remember Cerebus receiving was from Jaka but that was just his sword.
Still, a great volume. One of my favorite shots, the goodbye hug between Cerebus and the Elf, very touching. On to Church & State I!
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Post by String on Jun 15, 2021 12:15:14 GMT -5
No question, Flash. He is speed personified.
Besides, Superman isn't used to running, what with all that flying around stuff.
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Post by String on Jun 15, 2021 11:57:53 GMT -5
Fantastic print! Love that cover. Welcome aboard as well!
Well, I'm at the end of the campaign in High Society so a few thoughts along the way:
Gah! I keep forgetting about Katrina, Jaka's sister. She never appears again? So odd. What's worse since the Apocalypse beasts are still roaming, I would have to think that she is still entranced within that circle with Janette and Theresa. Wow.
I read the interlude piece "What Happened Between Twenty And Twenty-One" for the first time, interesting seeing how Cerebus got from Togith to Beduin. But the character of Strangis, does he appear again anywhere? Seems like a demented parody of Dr Strange.
If Sim doesn't like doing backgrounds then you can't get more basic than stark black as seen when Cerebus arrives at the Regency. You're forced to focus on the characters and dialogue. But I do like how Sim plays within that stark black background depending on what the characters are doing. A chair here, a door there, a bed, a fireplace. There's one particular shot I love, where Astoria is listening to Cerebus complain and she's leaning on the fireplace mantle with her left arm yet it's only her arm resting on the shadow outline of the mantle. Combined with her facial expression, it's quite effective in spite of it's starkness.
Bran Mac Muffin. He's re-introduced after what, 15+ issues? First, he was the leader of essentially barbarians living in underground tunnels and burrows. Now, he's well-dressed, manicured, resides at the Regency, quite the change. I find it interesting that he is brought back now for in essence, he seems to start and re-enforce this narrative. He was the one who first suggests Cerebus run for Prime Minister, he is the one who fosters and renews Cerebus' desire to win by laying out war plans and his belief in the Earth-Pig Born.
Because otherwise, I don't think Cerebus does any of this. Before this, Cerebus seems only interested in conquest, his leadership of the Conniptins and his alliance with Stromm Got of Thunder. Food, ale, gold seems his only goals. But he arrives in Iest to find himself the ranking diplomatic representative of Palnu which gives him food, ale, and gold aplenty. He seems content until he has to contend with being re-elected as such (Grand inquisition aside) It's only when Bran suggests that due to his preordained nature, he run for Prime Minister that he does so.
Along the way in the campaign, Sims builds up the underlying themes of theocracy vs democracy, free elections and their pitfalls yet I don't think Cerebus cares one whit about any of it. Astoria may want to overwrite the old system, Julius wants to maintain his lunatic bureaucracy but Cerebus is just along for the ride. He mentioned before all this of maybe trying to pick a side or cause to throw in with but I don't think this qualifies for him. Throughout the election, he's dumbfounded over the process and concessions needed to achieve this elusive post. Bran whispering in his ear that leads him to dreams of an Aardvarkian Empire seems to be the only cause that Cerebus is still finds wanting. His first reaction upon thinking he may lose the election is to declare a war against Julius and Palnu.
There are deeper issues at play here but Cerebus is heedless or mindless of them. He's just playing out a role in both Astoria's political ideals or Bran's visions of a new age of Earth-Pig supremacy.
Also, is this the beginning of Sims' exploration of male/female roles and models? Late on in the election, it's mentioned that Cerebus can gain votes if Astoria is basically kept out of any powerful political roles in Cerebus' cabinet. Women can't or shouldn't occupy positions of power and/or influence? (Also, the instance of Blakely being the one to determine if Cerebus is a worthy candidate for PM and dismisses Astoria outright).
Love the Eisner touches/homages in the Lower Iest scenes. Even with the stark black backgrounds, Sims' artistry continues to grow and mature here. Even his playing with the format is great from panel layouts to his written descriptions of the panels featuring Cerebus, Julius, and Elrod. And yes, it wasn't until I attended an actual comic convention that I now see how much (and how well) Petuniacon is based upon them.
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Post by String on Jun 3, 2021 13:42:09 GMT -5
As for the re-re-re-read, I'm about halfway through Vol 1. Awhile back, I acquired Swords of Cerebus #2-3 from eBay which collects #5-12. So when appropriate, I switched to these in my re-reading because I wanted to read Sims' intros and anecdotes.
Most if not all were enlightening and entertaining. The one that I liked the most was the intro to #11, first appearance of the Cockroach otherwise known as Cootie. Sims apparently suffered a nervous breakdown after completing this issue, I was unaware of that. A result apparently of the culmination of pressures, both professional and private, successes and failures. But in this intro, he acknowledges the importance of Marshall Rogers and his ideas about Batman (excuse me...THE Batman) on the creation of Cootie.
It's obvious of course that is who Cootie is parodying at first but to read how Sims was entranced by Rogers' heady thoughts about the nature of THE Batman, a person draped and drowning in darkness and tragedy, it added more to Cootie when I read that issue and it's follow-up. It also made the comedy even more authentic because as Sims notes, tragedy and comedy are not that far apart. I also loved how Sims felt like taking it all to the extreme, what if Bruce Wayne never realizes that he is THE Batman? So the Cootie has separate personalities as a result.
It was also around #9 or #10 (first one about Cerebus attempting to conquer Imesh & King K'Cor and the next is his second encounter with Red Sophia) that Sims started to realize that the backgrounds were becoming less important as the plotting and characterization were becoming. He makes the assertion that he is a writer who draws rather than an artist who writes.
That's an amazing and important distinction especially for him to make this early in his career. For me, the Cockroach two-parter started the book and the character onto more familiar and potent themes such as the power of manipulations and their inevitable costs.
I want to acquire Swords of Cerebus #4 which contains the Palnu trilogy and the intro of Lord Julius. Be interesting to read any and all ruminations by Sims on these issues as they are quite the game-changer and expander on the series.
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Post by String on Jun 3, 2021 13:20:24 GMT -5
Coincidences of a certain kind help remind one that perhaps you are on the right path or have made a proper choice. I had such a coincidence today.
About a week ago, I developed an itch to re-read Cerebus. Now, it must be stated, whenever this itch arises, I feel it is absolutely necessary that I start from the beginning. Regardless of how many times I may have read these volumes, to acquire the proper sense and appreciation of this opus each time I read it, I need to start from Vol 1.
Which I have done. Of the phonebook editions, I have Vols. 1-9. So I was thinking it might be about time to finish off the run. Now, today, I was in my LCS looking for some particular TMNT trades (found' em) and when lo' and behold, I spotted a copy of Church & State II on their shelf. I've always found it extremely rare whenever I see any of the phonebook editions on a store shelf whether it be a bookstore or comic store or what have you.
I was intrigued. Then, on the next bookcase, a copy of Jaka's Story. Ok, even better now. Then, next bookcase, a copy of Reads. Now you really got my attention. And there it was, on the bottom shelf of the last bookcase, a copy of Minds Vol. 10, the next book I needed in my collection.
I almost laughed aloud. What are the chances, I decide to re-read/finish my Cerebus collection and here's the next volume I need. SNATCH!
When I got home, I was intrigued to see the banner 'Remastered edition' across the top of the front cover. Turns out this copy is a sixth printing. It has intro by Sims, the story, and then a 2-3 page essay on the remastering. I'm not fully sure what this entailed but just glossing over it, it seems part of it was acquiring the original art or sources of the original issues for the art to be digitally scanned for reprint (gotta say, the art does look striking).
I haven't read the essay just in case it also had something to do with the story line because I've never read up this far in this saga so y'know, no spoilers. But I do think it's interesting that there is a 6-8 year gap between the fifth and sixth printings. (The sixth is listed as 2018).
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Post by String on May 29, 2021 12:03:27 GMT -5
A few questions about the relationship and marriage of Johnny Storm and Alicia Masters.
Has Bryne ever said why he paired the two together? Or what plans he had for their relationship?
They got married in FF #300 which was written by Roger Stern. So was this keeping in line with what Bryne may have intended? Or was this outside influence such as Editorial?
Then why wait over 50+ issues before retconning it into Alicia being Lyja, a Skrull imposter all along?
Was this DeFalco's idea? Or Editorial? Or a response to readers' reactions?
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Post by String on May 29, 2021 11:52:03 GMT -5
Jim Shooter writing a comic where Hank Pym is an abusive husband. Going on 40 years now. I would go a step further and say Shooter also making Pym overall mentally unstable/fragile. The creation of Ultron, the initial appearance of Yellowjacket, to me, these looked like events that Hank suffered through yet he recovered and simply moved on. It seems like Shooter (in Avengers #161) was the first to link the dots in all these scenarios by having Hank suffer severe mental issues/distress and thus changed the entire perception of his character since. For Hank Pym under Thomas seems like a wholly different type of character/hero to me than the Pym I've been accustomed to reading since the 80s.
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Post by String on May 28, 2021 12:58:37 GMT -5
I guess the amount of prestige that Marvel Studios has accrued over the last decade is paying off now by having such big name actors like Angelina Jolie and Salma Hayek be in your films. However, that can be distracting because at the moment, all I see in this trailer is that's Angelina Jolie and not as her playing Thena instead.
Although, Kit Harington as Dane Whitman? Ok, my attention and curiosity are piqued now, what does the Black Knight have to do with the Eternals, hm?
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