bran
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Post by bran on Mar 31, 2017 11:05:57 GMT -5
For me, Conan's early adventures go like this: People of the Dark The Coming of Conan Lair of the Beast-Men The Demon Out of the Deep Legions of the Dead The Thing in the Crypt (Conan captured by a second band of Hyperborean slavers briefly; looses sword from the crypt; manages to escape again) The Shadow in the Tomb Twilight of the Grim Grey God Right, it can work in several ways. I have Conan on a single long shelf, and whoever wants to borrow it, receives reading-order instructions LOL (and has to return the books in the same order, that's the condition). Everyone mentions how the order makes it a full fledged saga, that much a better read. Reading in SSC publishing order is annoying because of sudden change in scenery and time, and because of mentioning of side characters (and events) off and on page. [Suffice to say I mixed up all Marvel editions (in Hyborian order, it's epic) with the exception of mini-series, have no clue where they fit.] So as a casual reader, and not an expert (Raider can help us here), these things I took into consideration (when sorting): - Legions of the Dead is a direct prequel to Twilight, and at that time he is with Aesir people. It's like his second/adopted tribe. They of course expect him to fight for them (so in effect he is a mercenary; in fact he even frames himself as a mercenary later on in Coming. Smooth!). - In Twilight he witnessed deaths of not less than two kings, and has seen and got involved, in more than any of the tribal chieftains. Close to power centers, he's been in the belly of the beast in that one, as if he spoke with God himself. - The war is still on, after Twilight Conan rejoins Aesir and delivers what he is payed for. - In Coming, he is with Aesir, but mentions he is not particularly attached: "I've done my work for Aesir gold". - At the end of Coming, once Conan leaves Aesir people - there is no going back. There is a streak of solo-adventures one after another. - The Frost Giants Daughter takes place early on, before Legions of the Dead. "The Frost" is BTW a perfect opener, incredible story about innocence lost, coming of age and becoming a man. (It's not really about giants-giants, as in Middle-earth giants. As he is very young at the time - two brothers, who are grown men in their 30s/40s, they appear to him as giants, a metaphor. Very strong in subtext, that story.)
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bran
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Post by bran on Mar 30, 2017 15:00:37 GMT -5
Jeremiah looks really good. What about Hermann Hupen's other series? I was just looking him up on wiki and some of those sound interesting too. There is that one-shot where he teamed up with Van Hamme (XIII, Thorgal). It's a present day/drama. Starts on a country-side (Provance-like place), beautiful summer day, two families gathered after a wedding, all is perfect. Some small incident happens, which leads to another one, and another one, and so it eventually escalates to a full scale war.. It's hilarious. If you like westerns Comanche is an excellent choice.
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bran
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Post by bran on Mar 29, 2017 17:38:42 GMT -5
One of the aspects I enjoy in Jeremiah (as I had in Simon du fleuve in the '70s) is that the "post-apocalyptic" world did not develop after an apocalypse... Things just went worse and worse until society was totally dysfunctional and shattered into hundreds of new, smaller and less "civilized" new ones. -- CONTAINS SPOILERS -- Right. Notice how antagonists/situations/the economic systems in place are never exactly the same - it's always the variation. Many gray tones as well. In that particular episode JS Bach, the older brother, is the one who re-build the dam and basically that entire community, is essentially not a bad guy. Sure he runs underground narcotics lab, which was the main source of income, but without that they would have nothing. It is his completely criminally insane brother, for whom he has a huge soft-spot, that tips the scale against him. (Simon of course never build the thing in his life.) Even so, after all the mess Bach pulls it off at the end, comes out all right (and survives). That was the first episode where Kurdy kills unarmed man outright in cold blood. After he kills Simon, Simon's doctor gets into the verbal outburst, rationalizes to defend Simon, how he was sick and not evil ("morally challenged" or something). I thought Kurdy will just turn around and go, but no he ends him right there. Even thought doctor didn't see Simon torturing Kurdy previously, Kurdy sized him up perfectly, because he tortured Esra as well - and that he (doctor) knew! Of course - as he was Simon's personal physician he knew - it was always all about the torture with Simon. The Esra incident from the start was the clue.
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bran
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Post by bran on Mar 29, 2017 16:41:55 GMT -5
Torpedo 1936 is always a fun read.
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bran
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Post by bran on Mar 29, 2017 15:06:24 GMT -5
Blacksad is decent, if you don't mind humanoids.
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bran
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Post by bran on Mar 29, 2017 10:06:44 GMT -5
If you like SF altogether with drama and the adult-content - enter Alexandro Jodorowky. This timeless classic is an excellent start (into "Jodoverse"):
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bran
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Post by bran on Mar 29, 2017 9:41:04 GMT -5
Loosely based on Robert Ludlum's Bourne-series, Van Hamme's XIII: The Day of the Black SunEDIT: Reading order matters here great deal. If #1 is out of stock - wait! :-) My personal favorite is episode "All Tears of Hell", that's the one in the prison. Atmosphere, pacing, dialogs - a perfection. As it was a great success in France, apparently it was continued, without Van Hamme, I have no idea is it any good.
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bran
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Post by bran on Mar 29, 2017 8:46:42 GMT -5
Yeah there is no alien invasion, mutants or whatnot.. it's all humans. One of the trademarks of Jeremiah is there is no exposition, except at the very beginning. After that brief intro he switches onto a micro-level. So for those of you who dig Walking Dead comic, and never checked this one, here are few bits and peaces. Even though it's set in a post-apocalyptic World, scenery in Jeremiah (Survivors) is not necessarily ugly/decay - sometimes it's quite beautiful, as seen here: Jeremiah and Kurdy as hired extra bodyguards, escorting VIP from point A to point B. As seasoned survivors they are calling the shots. Notice re-fabricated RV - with horses... LOL and sometimes it's ugly: If you are a Walking Dead fan, you'll be familiar with this: Picture's worth a thousand words right. Often those sanctuary communities/city-states, like that one in the picture, are ran by someone like Governor or Negan from WD. Just like in WD, they are different, so dynamic is not quite the same (variation rather). For example Governor is a homicidal maniac - on the surface however he keeps the appearance of a moral all-caring politician (concerned about a welfare of common folk). Negan makes a huge nasty exhibitions of violence (he wants to appear as bad as possible) but his kill-count is (probably) lower than Rick's. In some shape or form Jeremiah and Kurdy are forced to confront or cooperate (sometimes both) with those leaders/communities. It makes a hell of a good base for an interesting story. One of the rare places they frequent - Langton: Now Langton is not a city-state (polis). It's more like a (lowless) town on the western frontier (19th century). Home sweet home (for ~5 episodes): Home sweet home on the water (1 episode only): Yes, they live in a boat, pretty safe ATC. Just like in WD, hunting skills are necessary (and a crowd-pleaser): Deril character (from WD show) is maybe inspired by Kurdy: Hunting skills, bow/cross-bow, leather sleeveless jacket, Native-American motives, and of course the motorcycle(s): Speaking of bikes, some action on the road: On-the-road segments are just great: (Wish there were more of them, in both comics.) Time-wise several episodes can pass in a matter of weeks, or a single one can last for months, no rules there. No exposition either, (ie. squares that read "Later...", "Two months later..", "and so.. "), again like in WD comic, you have to figure that out (there are clues). Often they find ordinary jobs which last for sometime, here Jeremiah on a construction site (looks contained). No mutants in Jeremiah, only sometimes there are: No trace of X-Men thought. Finally, once upon a time, wasn't that a lovely place:
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bran
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Post by bran on Mar 29, 2017 2:45:24 GMT -5
Yeah movie Conan is quite a nice guy, with the ton of muscles. As always Hollywood over-compensates the lack of mental strength with physical abilities.
Conan from the books (or many comic-book adaptations) is a very agile brute: A thief, a pirate, a notorious womanizer, a mercenary, a king - almost anything but the righteous avenger. His self-interest comes first, if it coincides with some righteous cause all that better.
Not Arnie's fault thought, it's just overall direction/dialogs/characters. Movie-template they used does not go along to well Friedrich Nietzsche's quote from the start IMO. Personally I hope to see more Conan movies, and I think it's fantastic material if they stay faithful to the original books. Not necessarily technically (the adventure can be different, or names of places) - but the characters.
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bran
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Post by bran on Mar 29, 2017 1:11:10 GMT -5
If you are into ongoing Walking Dead series (or Mad Max movies) do check Jeremiah! Also, On the Road and Book of Eli are in the same vain so to speak.
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bran
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Post by bran on Mar 28, 2017 15:54:58 GMT -5
You're right, Death covered in gold is placed a little while after the Turanian army period. It is something of a continuity headache, too, because it shows Conan reuniting with Jenna years after he dumped her in a cesspool in CtB #11. The problem is that J.M. DeMatteis had already shown such a reunion in CtB #118, set several months after Bêlit's death! I try to reconcile the two by assuming that when Conan met Jenna in issue 118, the two of them just omitted to mention that they had already met again since CtB #11. I doubt the miniseries could be placed right in between Night of the dark god and the curse of the conjurer, even if it must have happened around those days, simply on the ground of parsimony. The first tale is set in Cimmeria, while the second occurs in Phalkar, described as a principality in the Border Kingdom. Cimmeria and the Border Kingdom are right next to each other, so it's simple to have Conan move from one to the next... but Death covered in gold is set in Ophir, far to the south. Conan would have had to make a very long detour to go from Cimmeria to Ophir and thence to the Border Kingdom (where he'd probably have little reason to go to, apart from just passing through). Death covered in gold could be set a little before Dark god or a little after Conjurer, but neither position is very satisfying. Dark god shows Conan working as a mercenary (presumably somewhere in the east), getting fed up with war and worldly pursuits, and riding hell-bent for home to see Mara, his childhood girlfriend. That doesn't seem compatible with his stopping in Ophir to look for gold. Meanwhile, after Conjurer, we get into the Black Shadow storyline that begins in Nemedia (to the north of Ophir). After that cycle, Conan rides westwards to Argos with his friends Tara and Yusef, and so there's no way he could have gone to Ophir on his own. I'd be tempted to place Death covered in gold earlier, between CtB #15 and #17. After #15, Conan leaves Koth to go either to Cimmeria (if you consider that CtB #16 is in continuity, and not a fill-in issue) or to northern Turan (if you jump from #15 to #17). In both cases, Ophir is either right on the way or a very slight detour away. Haha this is great. I have to say I am not counting in non-Roy Thomas stories, but you are including them as well - now that's complicated. The Frost Giant's Daughter right? No, not at all - I place it as the 3rd story! The only 2 ahead are 2 yarns from Conan's childhood: Old Garrad's Heart and Day of Manhood. It fits there perfectly: The unrests and tribal wars started. Our story starts at the aftermath of some early and particularly bloody battle. [BTW that battle happened off-page is a stroke of genius. Kurosava used it in one of his pictures, to the similar effect.] At the end, when young Conan wakes up - he is surrounded by friendly elders from his tribe, whom we also see (one of them) in The Legions of the Dead. The Legions of the Dead directly predates The Twilight of the Grim Grey God. So Coming of Conan follows right after it. Your opinion on the later? Any problems with Coming happening right after The Twilight. From then on it's relatively easy: Couple of adventures in the snow, then at the end of The Thing in the Crypt he makes the decision to go south. Now there - he is not specific, he is not thinking of particular place in Arenjun or Shadizar, or of particular people, just south. Just as someone who never been there. The Lair of the Ice Worm fits right there, after the Crypt. At the end of The Lair he is heading towards the big Sun on the horizon, and a city filled with gold, wine and women in silk.
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bran
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Post by bran on Mar 28, 2017 5:14:24 GMT -5
Popularization and the movie getting made is not necessarily a good thing, if you have to change the characters, or drastically alter their already established history. Most impotently, REH's yarns are full of subtext and hidden meanings, which are nowhere to be seen in the movies.
One and the only goal of a plot device where a little boy's family/the entire village is slaughtered and boy enslaved, is so that the audience goes "aaaah poor boy", so everyone roots for the boy from the get go. It's cheesy as hell, but also - how can you add the prequel. Conan encountered many adventures before the age of 21 (and never was enslaved), which is as opposite to spinning the wheel as you can get.
Roy Thomas gets REH's characters (and the history/Hyborian World if you will), I hope they clear up bureaucracy and finish the gig.
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bran
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Post by bran on Mar 28, 2017 4:18:41 GMT -5
These reviews are great, Raider I hope you keep on with Conan mini-series and other issues. There are at least 4 miniseries written/adapted by Roy Thomas: Lord of the Spiders Scarlet Sword Road of Kings (DH) Death Covered in Gold (full Buscema, pencil+ink) I wonder where would you place that one, for sure it's between Turanian army phase and Queen of the Black Coast. (According to chronology I found in another thread it's right in between Night of the Dark God (ST4) and The Curse of the Conjurer CB46, any objections to that?)
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