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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jan 19, 2015 18:34:17 GMT -5
Action Comics #1 (1938)  Whiz #2 (1940)  ---------------------------------------------- Adventure Comics #37 (1939)  Double Action Comics #2 (1940)  ----------------------------- Detective Comics #8 (1937)  Atomic Comics #1 (1945)  ----------------------------- Detective Comics #9 (1937)  Federal Men Comics #2 (1945)  Aside from Whiz #2 which is different enough that I think it counts as an homage those others just seem like plagiarism to me. The Adventure/Double Action and Detective/Federal Men pairing are the furthest thing from plagerism Each is an attempt by DC to register the later's title in order to block any other publisher's from using it. They are called "Ashcan Editions" an in-house only publication made up strictly by reprints and sent to some agency as to be the first to lay claim on that title. Double Action and Federal Man never went to the newstands. DC did this many,many times in the 1940s. I recall seeing dozens of examples including the titles Superwoman,Superboy and more from the early 1940s |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 19, 2015 18:51:18 GMT -5
Aside from Whiz #2 which is different enough that I think it counts as an homage those others just seem like plagiarism to me. The Adventure/Double Action and Detective/Federal Men pairing are the furthest thing from plagerism Each is an attempt by DC to register the later's title in order to block any other publisher's from using it. They are called "Ashcan Editions" an in-house only publication made up strictly by reprints and sent to some agency as to be the first to lay claim on that title. Double Action and Federal Man never went to the newstands. DC did this many,many times in the 1940s. I recall seeing dozens of examples including the titles Superwoman,Superboy and more from the early 1940s While I'm familiar with the practice I didn't know these were examples presented as they were in a thread on homages. |
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Post by dcindexer on Jan 19, 2015 19:23:05 GMT -5
Each is an attempt by DC to register the later's title in order to block any other publisher's from using it. They are called "Ashcan Editions" an in-house only publication made up strictly by reprints and sent to some agency as to be the first to lay claim on that title. Double Action and Federal Man never went to the newstands. DC did this many,many times in the 1940s. I recall seeing dozens of examples including the titles Superwoman,Superboy and more from the early 1940s None of these are ashcans. Double Action #1 may have been an ashcan but #2 was not. There are many theories/stories on why Double Action #2 was published. Federal Men Comics was not even published by DC. It was published in 1945 along with four other books (Atomic, Warrior, Bingo, and Cavalier) which contained some Nicholson era DC reprints and some original material. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jan 19, 2015 19:37:51 GMT -5
Each is an attempt by DC to register the later's title in order to block any other publisher's from using it. They are called "Ashcan Editions" an in-house only publication made up strictly by reprints and sent to some agency as to be the first to lay claim on that title. Double Action and Federal Man never went to the newstands. DC did this many,many times in the 1940s. I recall seeing dozens of examples including the titles Superwoman,Superboy and more from the early 1940s None of these are ashcans. Double Action #1 may have been an ashcan but #2 was not. There are many theories/stories on why Double Action #2 was published. Federal Men Comics was not even published by DC. It was published in 1945 along with four other books (Atomic, Warrior, Bingo, and Cavalier) which contained some Nicholson era DC reprints and some original material. I no longer have an Overstreet to look those up. Are those American or Canadian publications? Do you know what the story was behind those reprints? I never knew a Double Action 2 existed and didn't notice it in the picture because it was a bit blurry |
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Post by dcindexer on Jan 19, 2015 21:07:53 GMT -5
I no longer have an Overstreet to look those up. Are those American or Canadian publications? Do you know what the story was behind those reprints? Double Action Comics #2 contained black and white reprints of More Fun Comics #28 and #29. The cover was reused from Adventure Comics #37 with additional material for the inside and back covers being pulled from: More Fun Comics #43, All-American Comics #4, and Detective Comics #27(!). It is suspected that 10 or fewer copies still exist. It is in the top 5 of the rarest DC books. The story told be longtime DC production manager Sol Harrison was that the book was a test to see if black and white comics would sell. The book was apparently only distributed to newsstands in Connecticut. Double Action #1 does not exist. Some rumors as to its existence have circulated from time to time including a fake cover that was created using the logo from #2 and the art from an ashcan used to secure the trademark for Action Comics. The five 1945 books were each published after the end of WWII by different American publishers (at least according to their indicias). Federal Men Comics #2 contained a reprint of Siegel and Shuster's Federal Men from New Comics #3, S&S Radio Squad from More Fun #11-15(?) and the two part Bret Lawton stories from Detective Comics #1 and 2. I don't have direct access to a copy, so I'm cribbing the contents from elsewhere. It was published by Gerard Publishing. I'm not aware of any other comics published by them. They were a magazine publisher. No #1 exists. Although DC did do an ashcan version using this title years earlier. Atomic Comics #1 was published by Green Publishing. It also contained Radio Squad reprints from More Fun #17-21. This was all one storyline, but they were printed out of sequence. It also contained King Arthur by Rafael Astarita from New Comics #3-7 and Barry O'Neill. The Barry O'Neill story is especially interesting as it is not strictly a reprint. The story is the same as New Fun #1-4 including word for word copies of most dialogue. However, it was completely layed out and redrawn by a different artist. Atomic Comics continued for three more issues. Each contained a mix of reprint and original material, but none of it was DC related. It appears to have been pulled from Jerry Iger's studio. Warrior Comics #2 was published by H.C. Blackerby. It contained reprints of Wing Brady from More Fun #11-16 and Mark Marson from More Fun #15-18. It also contained an original story entitled "The Iron Man" written by Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson. This featured the character Allan De Beaufort who appeared in two DC stories from New Comics #1 (1935) and a story entitled Hooves of the Tartar Horde from More Fun Comics #30 (1938). I'm guessing this story was written during that same era, but never published. No #1 exists. H.C. Blackerby also published Bingo Comics #1. I have never seen more than a couple pages of the interior which had Sandra of the Secret Service reprint from New Fun #1. The panels had been re-pasted because New Fun was oversized and its contents could not fit on a standard comic page. However, the reprint I saw had the panels pasted out of order. I don't know what else Bingo contained. A canadian version is said to exist published by F.E. Howard. Lastly is Cavalier Comics #2 published by Sture Ashberg. It contains another section of the Barry O'Neill story from New Fun #5 to More Fun #10. Like the Barry O'Neill section from Atomic Comics #1, this first 6 pages are completely redrawn. The next two pages are partial redraws and partial reprints. Pages 9-12 use the same art as More Fun #9-10. This leads me to believe the pages were redrawn because of the oversize nature of New Fun #1-6. More Fun #7 & 8 (both of which I just bought this week!) are also oversized but not as big as the New Funs. For whatever reason they must have decided to redraw the pages instead of re-paste them as they did with the Sandra story in Bingo Comics. This issue is rounded out by Captain Quick from New Comics #6-11 and Speed Saunders from Detective Comics #5. Apparently there are two editions of this book, the 1945 version and a later version from 1952(?). I can't confirm the later one, since I only have the 1945 version. It may have been published by A.W. Nugent, who created the puzzle pages that appeared in comics from multiple publishers from the 1930s-1950s. Cavalier Comics #1 does not exist. As to why these five issues exist, I can only speculate that the contents were sold to a comic book packager after WWII. Comic book packagers were common in those days. Packagers like Funnies, Inc., Harry Chesler, and the Iger studio supplied comics to a variety of publishers. It may be that this material was dumped by a Nicholson era employee or DC founder Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson himself. The packager then sold the contents to a variety of publishers trying to break into comics. This theory is supported by the fact that Iger material was used to fill out the remaining issues of Atomic Comics. The other titles had no follow-ups. /// Back to the original topic of Homages. I included the four examples above, not because I consider them all to be Homages, but because someone else could. Based on the comments that followed there is differing opinions on what is an Homage vs a swipe etc. It doesn't appear that there is a definition common to everyone. Certainly the Whiz #2 example is a different pose etc, but is thematically linked. Double Action #2 is the exact same artwork, reused on a different issue. Atomic Comics #1 copies the general pose and feel, but has a different character. Federal Men #2 has the exact same pose and character drawn by a different artist. Four examples of different types. |
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Post by chadwilliam on Jan 19, 2015 22:31:40 GMT -5
I really appreciate the responses thus far to this thread - that Atomic Comics cover is interesting to me as while I'll occasionally come across swipes within stories themselves, it takes a certain audacity to steal an entire cover.
What really interests me in this subject is that it seems as if sometime during the 1960s, comics became self aware of their history. The Silver Age began based upon the assumption that few people would recall characters who had disappeared five years previously and yet it isn't long thereafter before we get little nods here and there to details dating back to the start of the Golden Age (Batman being depicted in Bill Finger's original outfit in JLA 37; an image of Superman from 1938 added as a sort of "corner box" to Superman 157). It was this self awareness (or the fans making it aware that they possessed memories that stretched further back than editors once gave them credit for) that led to that mining of the past that ensured that if a character, idea, or story was good enough it had a chance to be revisited after laying dormant for so long. I'm curious if DC expected most readers to recognize the allusions to those earlier Flash, Superman covers or if they regarded it as an amusing in-joke that only a certain percentage would share. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jan 19, 2015 23:00:44 GMT -5
Great info DCindexer. I believe I once owned a copy of Atomic #1 purchased in the late 70s. It was reasonably priced back then (probably $10 or less) with Overstreet mentioning Siegel and Shuster work but no indication at that time about it being reprints. Alas I sold them all off a few years ago and didn't keep my records of what I had once owned.
And yes-I've read many comments from various DC editor's via interviews that the staff believed back in the early Silver Age that the average reader gave up following comics after a few years. When pressed for a plot for a new story, it was not uncommon an older story would be re-used with slight adjustments and new art. Editors also felt that DC annuals containing reprints over 5 years old would be welcomed as if it was new material for the vast majority of their audience.
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Post by electricmastro on Jan 24, 2020 1:44:48 GMT -5
The Funnies #34 (October 4, 1930):  The Comics #8 (June, 1938):  |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 24, 2020 22:20:39 GMT -5
Homage or straight- up rip off of the cover?
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Post by Farrar on Jan 25, 2020 12:10:10 GMT -5
^^^
Same artist (Victor E. Pazmiño "VEP", who did work from comics' earliest days at Dell, Eastern Color, Centaur, etc., and into the 1940s at other companies); same characters (Jimmy Jam and Pop), same publisher (Dell).
So perhaps a re-use of the art by the company; or perhaps Pazmiño just wanted to reuse it himself. Jimmy and Pop appear in both comics.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 25, 2020 12:34:53 GMT -5
^^^ Same artist (Victor E. Pazmiño "VEP", who did work from comics' earliest days at Dell, Eastern Color, Centaur, etc., and into the 1940s at other companies); same characters (Jimmy Jam and Pop), same publisher (Dell). So perhaps a re-use of the art by the company; or perhaps Pazmiño just wanted to reuse it himself. Jimmy and Pop appear in both comics. Looks like it was just flipped and resized, which suggests the publisher did it. Would Pazmino have retained his original art to resubmit it? |
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Post by Farrar on Jan 25, 2020 12:49:52 GMT -5
^^^ Probably not, but maybe he had a sketch or something handy and thought no one would remember it from years earlier  (and changed it a bit, obviously it's flipped/resized). Fwiw the Funnies cover was printed on newsprint; the whole comic was similar to a newspaper insert. |
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Post by electricmastro on Jan 26, 2020 15:25:54 GMT -5
Also: Blackhawk #24 (April, 1949):  Police Comics #104 (February, 1951):  |
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Post by electricmastro on Feb 4, 2020 12:22:53 GMT -5
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(and changed it a bit, obviously it's flipped/resized). 
