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Post by profh0011 on Nov 28, 2019 11:30:54 GMT -5
Every time I've tried to read the New Voyages I get too bored to finish. I'll try again soon. And yeah, the one time I read the XM/MN mini I was not a fan, so I'm kinda taking my time before doing a re-reading. The 1st time I met Don McGregor at a convention, Peter Gillis was sitting next to him, so I spent as much time chatting with him as with Don. he seemed like a real nice guy, and had been doing some very interesting, off-beat fill-in stories here and there.
But when he got on regular series-- 4 at the same tme, as I recall-- all of them seemed to just ramble on and on, and the focus seemed to be slowly destroying the characters he was writing about. At least half of THE NEW DEFENDERS got killed by the end, and the survivors joined X-FACTOR. MICRONAUTS... 20 issues steadily leading to the death of all the characters. ALL of them. THE BLACK FLAME (a back-up in one of the First Comics books), seemed to be a superhero adaptation of Dante's Inferno or something... and I don't even remember if I made it to the end of the story. DR. STRANGE wound up COMMITTING SUICIDE. No, really. He was the exception, as he got better... and for a few issues after, Gillis seemed like he was finally set to do some upbeat stories AT LAST. But then he was gone, and Roy Thomas came back (accompanied by Butch Guice, oddly enough), and did my favorite work of his in that entire period.
Maybe there was a parallel between Gillis & O'Neil. O'Neil dragged Tony Stark thru the mud for 3 entire years... and when Tony finally pulled himself together, a few months later, O'Neil left. I guess he just WASN'T interested in writing about characters who actually had their lives together.
Take your time. Better you than me!
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Post by badwolf on Nov 28, 2019 14:42:41 GMT -5
I loved the darkness of the Gillis eras. But I think the demise of the Defenders was probably an editorial edict (or else the cancellation of the book came upon him so quickly that he couldn't think of another way of breaking them up on short notice.)
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 25, 2020 17:50:49 GMT -5
MICRONAUTS #1Cover Date: January 1979 Publisher: Marvel Comics Writer: Bill Mantlo Penciller/Co-plotter: Michael Golden Inker: Josef Rubinstein Letterer: Tom Orzechowski Colorist: Glynis Wein Cover: Dave Cockrum & Al Milgrom Editor: Al Milgrom
Homeworld! (17 pages; color)
Synopsis: Homeworld is in revolt led by Baron Karza, who promises people immortality through his body banks. The royal family tries to escape but only Princess Mari survives. Meanwhile, Commander Arcturus Rand returns from a 1000 year voyage of exploration and is taken prisoner. The underground helps Rand, Princess Mari and a handful of others (the desposed prince of the Acroyears, Bug, and Microtron, Mari's personal droid) escape with the aid of the enigmatic Time Traveler. Aboard Rann's ship they pierce the fringes of the microverse to escape pursuit.
Ratings Story: 8/10 Art: 9/10 Overall: 8/10
Comments: Golden's art is gorgeous, and Rubinstein generally does a good job of inking him, the only downfall is in some of the military equipment. Golden tries to capture the look and feel of some of the toys, which featured over-sized rubber nubs on projectiles for child safety reasons, but in a comic page it doesn't quite read as believable or even functional. However, the character designs, the panel to panel storytelling and page to page storytelling are all mostly top notch.
Mantlo does a decent job of getting us into the story with an in medias res start and manages to establish the conflict and the major players well. Some of the exposition and dialogue were a bit of a slog, but not bad overall. It's a decent start and sets up a lot of interesting conflicts and dynamics that will hopefully be explored as the series progresses.
-M
I'm finally re-reading my Micronauts, so I'll be making my way through this thread. One of my all-time favorite series, at least in my memory. It's off to a great start so far as far as I'm concerned. Golden's art is excellent and Mantlo really has me hooked. I find it all interesting with Karza's body banks, the people more or less willingly surrendering their freedom for some form of immortality, the mysterious reason Karza fears Commander Rann, the mysterious Time Traveller.
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 25, 2020 17:52:40 GMT -5
MICRONAUTS #2 Cover Date: February 1979 Publisher: Marvel Comics Writer: Bill Mantlo Penciller/Co-plotter: Michael Golden Inker: Josef Rubinstein Letterer: John Costanza Colorist: F. Mouly Cover: Golden & Rubinstein Editor: Al Milgrom "Earth!" (17 pages; color) Synopsis: The Endeavor breaches the walls of the fringe with the aid of the Time Traveler and the ship and its crew wind up in Florida in our world. They begin to explore, but Karza's forces seek them out, led by Prince Shaitan, Acroyear's traitorous brother. Meanwhile Karza reveals Price Argon, Mari's brother is alive, and will be spared, but only to be the subject of Karza's experiments. With the aid of an adolescent boy they meet at their crash site, Rann and his intrepid band escape the Acroyear pursuit forces and teleport away. Ratings Story: 8/10 Art: 8/10 Overall: 8/10 Comments: Golden's art looked a little rushed in places, still great, but not quite on par with last issue. The quirky toy look is gone from the equipment though, so that's a plus. I do like the way Mantlo handled the Micronouts discovering they were on a world of giants, very reminiscent of some classic sci-fi moments in other media I have seen here and there through the years, but still feeling organic and appropriate for this situation, not a forced homage or hack copying. Mantlo is also introducing some tension between Mari and Rann, that is probably meant to lead to romantic tension, but right now, however, it does feel forced and hackneyed. There are some interesting character bits being showcased though...the camaraderie of Bug and Acroyer, the inferiority complex of Biotron, and the fierce streak of independence and cold desire for revenge in Mari all work well so far. -M First, I love this cover. Second, I felt so bad for that kid at the end. Is he in for it! Yes, the tension between Mari and Rann is definingly not new territory and seems a bit forced, but still a good issue overall. Acroyear is one strong dude!
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Post by brutalis on Sept 25, 2020 18:31:53 GMT -5
Issue 2 is such a fun comic. It was my first issue found and flipping through it is all I allowed myself to do at the time. I ran all over Phoenix with a friend in search of the 1st issue. We hit every convenience store around us, then north of us and to the east of us. Finally scoring that 1st issue in Scittsdale, nearly 45 minutes across town away from us.
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 26, 2020 11:55:42 GMT -5
Oh, and though I hadn't read this series for about 12 years, one of the things I do remember is the comradery between Acroyear & Bug, which I enjoyed.
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 26, 2020 12:03:05 GMT -5
Character personalities are starting to be developed clearly, as Mari, Microtron and Acroyear all get some spotlight moments that really help define them more for the reader. The plot is moving forward, however the battle scene was way too reminiscent of the battle of the Millennium Falcon to escape the Death Star with Han and Luke in the turret guns of the Falcon. Just felt too blatant to be anything but a copy. Golden's art continues to shine, but some of the colors/inks get a little muddy on the newsprint.-M I'd have loved to have seen this on good ol' Baxter paper! Too mad it'll probably never get a good reprint treatment due to rights issues, though I have all the back issues so I probably wouldnn't buy it anyway.
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Post by brutalis on Sept 26, 2020 13:42:31 GMT -5
Marvel did collect Mantlo/Golden's 12 issues into a 5 issue series called Micronauts Special Edition. Printed on a heavier and glossy paper stock. It was a much more affordable way to get that classic run back in the day as several of the original issues were VERY EXPENSIVE, especially for us "kids" not yet working for a living with disposable income to burn on collectible back issues.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 26, 2020 15:07:03 GMT -5
Marvel did collect Mantlo/Golden's 12 issues into a 5 issue series called Micronauts Special Edition. Printed on a heavier and glossy paper stock. It was a much more affordable way to get that classic run back in the day as several of the original issues were VERY EXPENSIVE, especially for us "kids" not yet working for a living with disposable income to burn on collectible back issues. That was how I finally amassed that whole run. I had issues 5, 7, 9, 10 an 11, after flipping through the second on a newsstand (and the 12th, later); but not the start and not the Captain Universe issue. After that, via Whitman, I got the Bug adventures on his homeworld and the Micro-Man finale. I started getting issues again when Pat Broderick came on board, right through the finale, then had a gap before the Quest for the Keys, which I picked up with the second installment, through the finale and the next issue. Quite frankly, the Special edition comics covered everything that is essential, though the Broderick run deserves a collection, if only for the art, and not the recycled plot of fighting Karza, again. The SHIELD and HYDRA angle gave it a nice wrinkle. The Key storyline was a decent trip through Homeworld's various regions, but, the end result was just Karza Redo, and that was the flaw in the series, as they couldn't get past that one extended plotline for long. That's why I never continued (plus the switch to Direct Market Only).
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 26, 2020 15:09:01 GMT -5
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 27, 2020 18:05:56 GMT -5
That's awesome! I'd love to get my hands on those, even though I already have the original newsprint versions.
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 27, 2020 18:11:15 GMT -5
As I mentioned, I just read #5 and will be working on he review shortly, but first I want to talk about the letters page in #5, featuring reactions to #1. There were two letters that particularly caught my eye-one who wrote in to ask why the main character of the book was not female or non-white. This has been a touchy subject of late in a lot of modern comics and message boards have been clogged with chatter over this the last while, while some dismiss it as modern PC bs, but it's not really a new argument. It was a question being asked even as far back as 1979 by comics fans. The editorial answer her e(I assume by Al Milgrom as he was editing the book) was that there was no main character for this book, it was an ensemble cast and each Micronaut was equal-male female, human, alien, white and non-white. Not a bad answer even if a bit evasive. The same letter wirter went on to complain about the extensive borrowing going on in the Micronauts-I've noted the Star Wars moments here and there, but he also pointed out that the scene in #1 where Commander Rann returns/reappears on Homeworld borrows heavily from the scene in Close Encounters of the Third Kind when the WWII soldiers emerge form the UFOs atop the mountain. He also points to Karza resemblance not only of Vader form Star Wars but Darkseid, and Bug's similarity to the Forager and Bugs in the Fourth World saga. He tries to suggest that the use of dog soldiers for Karza's troops is a borrowing of Hyborain terms, but that one, at least is way off, not so much with the same critique for the use of Shadow Priests though, which does have a certain Stygian ring to it. Milgrom's response is pretty much, yeah the Kirby homage in Bug is intentional, Karza however was designed by the toy company not them, that Golden was a huge fan of Close Encounters and that dog soldiers is pretty much a trope for foot soldiers going way way back. It all ties into a conversation my old thesis adviser and I used to have about studying human civilizations and their accomplishments concerning the question of what is innovation? Is it creating something completely new and original? If so, then there are a frighteningly small number of innovative civilizations. Or can innovation be taking something pre-existing and using it in a new way? Synthesizing diverse elements into something new? We would go back and forth on this a lot but we both usually came down on the same side of it-that synthesis into something new qualifies as innovation, as completely original things are few and far between, almost as rare as ex nihilo creation itself. If you look at the Micronauts in these terms, there is a lot that is not original here, but the series as whole is very innovative. It is taking things that seem familiar and synthesizing something new here, something that has warts for sure as some of those familiar elements stand out way too much, but also something that feels fresh and exciting. The second letter of note, is from cat yronwode, she of the Lesser Book of the Vishanti fame that I posted about here before, and who was a prominent editor in many of the indy books of the 80s (and 90s). She expresses her initial reaction to hearing about the book was that a book based on plastic toys was just tacky, but goes on to say she was glasd she tried it because it is a beautiful book with an intriguing concept with amazingly polished art and lettering. She does go on however to voice the idea that this must be separate from the main Marvel Universe because of the concepts involved (paraphrase-I trust we won't see the Micronauts alongside Spidey in Marvel Team-Up)-she does this in the context of discussing Mantlo' writing saying she likes when he is doing original concepts moreso than when he is adding to an existing mythos-again a discussion that presages a lot of the creator-owned vs. mainstream corporate comics discussions fans are having today too (I guess the more things change and all that with us comics fans....). Milgrom responds that this is a mainstream MArvel U title and the Microverse is part of the MU...timing here is everything as #6 will see our first guest star from the MU too. -M Commander Rann's return reminded me more of Vance Astro. IIRC, both were space travelers whose trip took an extremely long time, and upon their return, they found that faster than light travel had been invented, thus their trips had been all for naught, and they were men out of their times.
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Post by brianf on Sept 28, 2020 1:07:11 GMT -5
I'm finally re-reading my Micronauts, so I'll be making my way through this thread. One of my all-time favorite series, at least in my memory. It's off to a great start so far as far as I'm concerned. Golden's art is excellent and Mantlo really has me hooked. I find it all interesting with Karza's body banks, the people more or less willingly surrendering their freedom for some form of immortality, the mysterious reason Karza fears Commander Rann, the mysterious Time Traveller. I'm glad you're reviving this thread - I should so my part and finish up my part of doing super short notations about the end of the series. I've also wanted to talk about the use Marvel made of the characters they owned once they lost the licensed Micronauts - for example I really liked the Bug one shot
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 28, 2020 8:17:31 GMT -5
I'm finally re-reading my Micronauts, so I'll be making my way through this thread. One of my all-time favorite series, at least in my memory. It's off to a great start so far as far as I'm concerned. Golden's art is excellent and Mantlo really has me hooked. I find it all interesting with Karza's body banks, the people more or less willingly surrendering their freedom for some form of immortality, the mysterious reason Karza fears Commander Rann, the mysterious Time Traveller. I'm glad you're reviving this thread - I should so my part and finish up my part of doing super short notations about the end of the series. I've also wanted to talk about the use Marvel made of the characters they owned once they lost the licensed Micronauts - for example I really liked the Bug one shot Good idea! I'm unfamiliar with this comic but would be interested in it.
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Post by brianf on Sept 28, 2020 19:43:34 GMT -5
Micronauts #56 (1984) Writer - Bill Mantlo Pencils - Jackson "Butch" Guice Inks - Kelley Jones & Sam Grainger Editor - Bob Harris Cover Art - Guice Karza & Rann come to terms with the time travelers at the temple of time while the other Micronauts go to Bugs planet Kaliklak to try and find some allies in the war against Karza. They find Bugs world under attack and the new queen threatened by an invading hoard of battle beetles. The 'Nauts save the day but sadly they find no help since Bugs people have their own problems. Once again Guices art is wonderful, but the story is just serviceable. Nothing new here, but still solid.
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