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Post by Farrar on Jun 14, 2019 16:21:41 GMT -5
So how did Barry Smith get a job with Marvel? There weren't a lot of new guys moving into the industry at this point and he's SO MUCH WORSE than everybody else working for Stan at this point. I mean, good call hiring him, Smith turned into a great artist in just a couple years, but at this early juncture he's obviously not ready for prime time. What gives? According to BWS in the interview in Comic Book Artist #2: "Marvel was my only interest because of Kirby's work." So he sent samples to Stan, who loved his Kirbyesque (OK--Kirby-aping) style. This is what set him apart from other new artists trying to break into Marvel. BWS received an encouraging note from Stan's then-assistant Linda Fite (who later married Herb Trimpe and who wrote some stories for Marvel including the Marvel Girl back-up in X-Men #57 and The Cat among other stories), so he and his pal Steve Parkhouse decided to come to the US and Marvel.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 14, 2019 17:26:56 GMT -5
I commented on this briefly with Lucifer, but it's funny how Silver Age villains seem to lose power as they get recycled... Lucifer went from being the cause of Professor X's disability and potential world conquered, to 'You have one more chance' in getting defeated by Iron Man.. then turns up in Daredevil later. I don't remember Lucifer fighting Daredevil, but he fought Steve Rogers and the Falcon during Steve Englehart's run on Captain America, Was that explained? I just read that last month or so. He was possessing someone or had an extra body or something. Lucy might nota been at full strength. Side-Note: Man, Englehart loved the original X-men. He wrote well over half of their appearances when their main book went reprint, right? Weird he never ended up writing them.
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Post by Farrar on Jun 15, 2019 10:46:15 GMT -5
...There weren't a lot of new guys moving into the industry at this point and he's SO MUCH WORSE than everybody else working for Stan at this point. I mean, good call hiring him, Smith turned into a great artist in just a couple years, but at this early juncture he's obviously not ready for prime time. What gives? Fwiw this X-Man story is BWS's famous "park bench" work. When he came to the US (in 1968) he was essentially living out of a suitcase and moving from place to place--sleeping on friends' sofas, in parks, etc. So his working conditions while drawing this story weren't exactly ideal.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 15, 2019 16:36:12 GMT -5
Ok, that makes a lot of sense. BWS did eventually do some of the best drawn issues of X-men ever, IMO.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 15, 2019 22:50:54 GMT -5
I commented on this briefly with Lucifer, but it's funny how Silver Age villains seem to lose power as they get recycled... Lucifer went from being the cause of Professor X's disability and potential world conquered, to 'You have one more chance' in getting defeated by Iron Man.. then turns up in Daredevil later. I don't remember Lucifer fighting Daredevil, but he fought Steve Rogers and the Falcon during Steve Englehart's run on Captain America, Maybe I'm getting my street level characters mixed up, as I couldn't find the reference..still, you get the idea
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Aug 12, 2019 10:05:49 GMT -5
I know this thread hasn't been updated in a while, but I just want to share that it's been really useful to use for some insight on the single issues as I'm making my way through X-Men from the start. I'm on issue 25 right now, and it's so difficult to get through. I find myself literally falling asleep at times, because the plots and character interactions just aren't very interesting to me. I remember getting through the first 45 or so issues of the Fantastic Four was difficult at times, but it seemed there were good stories even within what I considered a big dry period. Also, any bickering between those four could happen, whereas with X-Men the professor never comes under scrutiny, and the only "drama" between the students is a love triangle between Jean, Scott, and Angel that really isn't even prominent because no one talks to each other. I think the only issues I've liked so far was the introduction of the Juggernaut, the issue with the sentinels, and I can't remember but there was an issue where Beast was being framed for something or whatever, and he had to make a machine to essentially out the real culprit.
It's been tough sledding, but reading the reviews, and commentary here after I've crawled through an issue helps. It's taken me over a year just to get through 25 issues. I want to get to Giant sized #1, and while I could just go there, I also want to see Neal Adams work on the early stuff. Or George Tuska even. Werner Roth is just not cuttin it for me.
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Post by profh0011 on Aug 12, 2019 15:44:16 GMT -5
Englehart loved the original X-men. He wrote well over half of their appearances when their main book went reprint, right? Weird he never ended up writing them. I noticed that awhile back. It IS strange that he wasn't involved in the X-MEN revival. Instead, we got Len Wein... whose main claim to fame at the time seemed to be jumping ship from series far too early, often in the middle of storylines he'd set up.
And then Chris Claremont replaces him... and he took forever for me to like. His stuff just seemed TOO intense, TOO serious, too unecessarily downbeat. Plus he was even sloppier than Marv Wolfman when it came to running sub-plots.
The crazy thing is, when X-MEN started up, the only person on the book who had worked on the original series... was inker Sam Grainger, who came in right near the very end in the late 60s.
Myself,,, the ONLY reason I picked up the revived X-MEN from the start was Dave Cockrum. But I've often wished he'd stuck on THE AVENGERS with Steve Englehart, who at the time, was my favorite comics writer.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 18, 2019 11:25:35 GMT -5
X-Men #54 'wanted Dead of Alive: Cyclops' Drake/Heck/Coletta Plot: Cyclops wakes up in a museum with the cops looking to take him in. IN flashback, we find out that he has a younger brother, who graduated from College earlier in the day. Said brother was kidnapped by a fellow calling himself the Living Pharaoh, who is, naturally, a powerful mutant. The team go to his rescue... while Angel, Beast and Iceman fight off the henchmen, Cyke duels the man himself, and they end up in a draw... for a moment. He circles back and lays a curse on Scott, knocking him out. He comes too next to his corpse and no brother to be found, and the police looking to arrest them for murder. He escapes, only to find the still living Pharaoh underground.. to be continued! Back up: 'The Million Dollar Angel' Drake/Roth/Colletta Angel's turn for an origin story. He's a rambunctious kid that likes to climb trees.. ALOT. His rich parents send him to boarding school, where he's a champ athlete and all around perfect guy. Wings sprout, and he saves his friends from a fire, but with a wig on no one recognizes him. the Mysterious Angel is born! To be continued (I guess) Just a boring and by the numbers as the others.. at least they didn't do anything dumb in this one. Story: D Art: D History A (First Havok, First Living Pharaoh) Notes: -So many plot holes, it hard to know where to begin. Maybe with how did Xavier not know the ancient Pharaohs were mutants (which we find out later is true..sorta)? -More power weirdness.. Jean senses where the bad guys went by walking into Alex's room. Also, Angel at one point gets speared through the wing, and it doesn't phase him in the least. Does Drake think they're mechanical or something? - The cops opine how odd it was that an X-Men did wrong, and worried about what would happen if they turned bad. What happened to 'hated and feared?' Scott's been hunted by the cops a couple times before.. at this point I wouldn't blame them for being suspicious, especially since he shot his way out instead of talking. Never mind the fact that no one explains why the rest of the team left him there.. it just sorta happened. - The art is odd, too. Heck seems to be experimenting with panels... they're all over the place at weird angles and shapes, some half tilted. It's a cool effect when the team enters Alex's ransacked dorm room, but after that it seems completely random. There's also a couple places where their weird shadows in the foreground,but that might be an issue with the epic collection. - At this point in the MU, we're still going with real time. Alex being Cyclops' younger brother graduating college as a star athelete means Scott is at least 22.. which makes sense if he was 16 when the comic started. Angel's back up story references 1963 as being in a boarding school before Xavier's as well. - Of course, none of that makes sense.. 1) How did Scott hide he had a brother from his telepathic girlfriend, or Xavier for that matter (one could assume Xavier knew and just never mentioned it, but why would he if he's a mutant). Then there's the fact that all the other mutants get their powers at puberty. I guess at some point in a revised origin story they try to answer both of these by saying Havok was a child prodigy, but that doesn't explain the 5 sport athelete thing, nor the fact that he LOOKS 21, or that Beast offers to buy him a beer. Also, Alex isn't blonde here, which clearly happened later to make it easier to tell the two brothers apart out of costume. -Drake apparently thinks being a mutant doesn't JUST give you mutant powers, but makes you smarter, stronger, etc. as well. I don't feel like this was ever a thing later (just like Stan's early 'every mutant has mind powers' thing), but it was really prevalent here.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 1, 2019 12:46:30 GMT -5
X-Men #55 'The Living Pharoah' Thomas/Heck/Roth/Colletta Plot: Just a big fight scene, taking place right after the end of the previous issue. Cyke is on the run, but finds the Pharoah alive. They fight, and Cyclops is captured, and taken (with Alex, who is also a prisoner) to Egypt. The rest of the team follow them, thanks to Jean's psychic rapport. Their plane gets shot down over the ocean, but they fix it off panel and arrive just in time for the big fight with all of Pharoah's minions. Just as the fight seems won, Pharoah is about to do something, when Alex blasts him with his suddenly available mutant power. To be continued!! Backup: 'Where Angels Fear to Tread' Thomas/Roth/Grainger Plot: Warren whips up a costume for himself, creates a 'gas gun' and decides to fight crime. He's successful at it, but gets the attention of the fledgling X-Men (so far Scott and Bobby, of course). The show up at his apartment to offer him to join, but he's not interested... to be continued! Plot: C- History: B(Beginning of Thomas' 2nd run) Notes: -- The cover is a bit of a spoiler for next issue... which is weird, since next issue is the creative team change and a seemingly huge left turn in the story. - No explanation why the X-Men have a jet at their disposal.. it's not a quinjet, and not a Blackbird. - It may be that with the writing change back to Roy Thomas, they've decided the Pharoah isn't actually a mutant.. he's using an Ankh to blast people this issue, instead of his hands. He still has an INTEREST in mutants, though. I guess we'll see. At least they actually mention the change in the story (Angel wonders why he's not using his powers) -Perhaps most perplexing is the hood... the bad guys put an Egyptian hood on Scott, so he can't use his powers... they claim it's hooked to his visor. He never tries to take it off, or, as he has in the past, power through it. Never mind the fact that he's not tied up or anything, ... he just believes the bad guy that is can't come off. Sure, we see two panels were he's sort of trying to take it off, but it seems a bit pitiful. - Instead, is bashes his head against the sarcophagus Alex is imprisoned in until it breaks. He thinks 'the mask is taking most of the punishment'... so it's hard plastic? or steel? Why not KICK the cover open, and not give yourself a concussion? For the leader, he's not very bright. - In the back up, Angel is now a Peter Parker clone, instead of being in a boarding school, and trying to establishing himself as 'the Avenging Angel'. Surprisingly, with Roy Thomas taking over, no reference to the Golden Age Angel. -Thomas DOES point out this was before the Avengers formed, though, giving more credence to the fact that the MU was originally in real time.
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Post by electricmastro on Nov 1, 2019 21:14:57 GMT -5
What I think have been the 10 best issues so far:
10. X-Men #9 - "Enter, the Avengers"
9. X-Men #6 - "Sub-Mariner Joins the Evil Mutants!"
8. X-Men #15 - "Prisoners of the Mysterious Master Mold!"
7. X-Men #50 - "City of Mutants"
6. X-Men #16 - "The Supreme Sacrifice!"
5. X-Men #13 - "Where Walks the Juggernaut!"
4. X-Men #14 - "Among Us Stalk... the Sentinels"
3. X-Men #4 - "The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants!"
2. X-Men #1 - "X-Men"
1. X-Men #12 - "The Origin of Professor X!"
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 1, 2019 21:29:33 GMT -5
That's a pretty good list.. I think I would swap the first issue out with the 2nd big fight with Magneto, and perhaps shift the order some, but mostly I agree .
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Post by electricmastro on Nov 1, 2019 21:58:38 GMT -5
That's a pretty good list.. I think I would swap the first issue out with the 2nd big fight with Magneto, and perhaps shift the order some, but mostly I agree . Thanks. To be more in general, I felt that Stan Lee's writing with #1-19 was pretty passable overall, with a few highlights like his stories with the Sentinels. In contrast, Roy Thomas' run with #20-43 is pretty all over the place, and Gary Friedrich taking over from #44-46 and Arnold Drake taking over from #47-54 didn't really change matters, with #50 being an exception. I do feel that Thomas' 1969 run is better than his 1966 one though.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Nov 2, 2019 1:10:41 GMT -5
Lemmee see.. 1) # 3, X-Men fight carnies. 2) . . . . I got nothin'.
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Post by electricmastro on Nov 2, 2019 1:42:39 GMT -5
Lemmee see.. 1) # 3, X-Men fight carnies. 2) . . . . I got nothin'. Well, I say some of the material was all over the place, but that said, there was still something refreshing I got from 1960s X-Men that I feels missing when I read modern X-Men. Even though it does have more serious undertones like with the mutant hate, 1960s X-Men to me just feels less dreary and pessimistic and more fun and uplifting overall, carnies and Frankenstein robots and all. Haha.
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Post by Farrar on Nov 2, 2019 10:12:40 GMT -5
X-Men #55 ...Backup: 'Where Angels Fear to Tread' Thomas/Roth ( no inker credit.. so maybe Roth inked himself?) Check the story's credits again --Sam Grainger is listed as both inker and (surprisingly) letterer. The Angel story plus the Dr. Deranged/Deadpan story in Not Brand Echh #13 (on sale the same time as X-Men #55) were Grainger's earliest work for Marvel. He also did both the inking-lettering on that NBE story. I've always liked his work and loved the Sal Buscema-Grainger run on the Avengers back in the day.
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