fred2
Junior Member
Posts: 78 
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Post by fred2 on Jun 4, 2014 22:13:06 GMT -5
I imagine all of us here like classic comics (since this is the classic comics forum, duh).
But what constitutes "classic" may differ by one's preference and generation. Not everyone here may like current comics or the route comics came to be from the good old days.
If you could change current comics, what would you change?
Where do you think comics changed from what you liked about the "classic" days ?
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 4, 2014 22:27:00 GMT -5
I think Marvel and DC both got too big to stay a coherent universe, and that makes me sad. If I were in charge, the different lines would be pretty separate... still occuring in the same universe, but rarely interacting. So, for marvel, there'd be an X-line, an Avengers/FF line, and a Spidey/DD street level line. Crossovers between groups would be rare and exciting. No sliding time scale nonsense. Characters age and die. On can always re-visit (Untold Tales of ____), re-vamp (legacy heroes), or re-do (Ultimate ____) but none of this compacting time as we go. Editors would actually edit, co-ordinate, and monitor. Characters wouldn't have completetly different personalities and powers under different writers. I'd bring back references to past issues. I'm sure I can think of more  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 22:49:59 GMT -5
I think this is the greatest time for comics. I think a part of that is the availability of reprint material, the price and availability of back issues, and the option to read classic comics digitally for a low cost. But also because of the variety of genres available in new comics. I don't think I'd change anything about comics that isn't the fault of the consumer. I wish non superhero and non licensed creator owned comics had even a fraction of the market share of superhero and licensed corporate owned intellectual property comics.
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Jun 4, 2014 23:15:10 GMT -5
I have definitely grown as a collector. When I started 12-15 years ago, it was Spidey only. First, PPTSS then as I got into high school (and the internet), it was ASM, with the occasional other title. Then it was any older title but strictly Marvel. Then it was anything pre 1990. Now it is anything that I have heard is a good or great read but primarily classic stuff.
For me, what keeps me away from following or truly loving current comics is that every universe is so damn huge. So many books, so many things. Hence why I like stuff from 60's to mid 80's best. Also, newsprint. If they used it today hey, I might buy comics off the rack.
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Post by hondobrode on Jun 4, 2014 23:44:39 GMT -5
Some smaller superhero universes include Hellboy, Invincible, Project : Black Sky (Dark Horse), and Valiant.
All very good and build off continuity without getting spread out too thinly or getting bloated.
I mostly agree with DuPont. I think this is probably the best time ever to be a reader / collector considering the internet, eBay, Comixology, the great wealth of over 70 years of comics, graphic novels, magazines, fanzines, strips and more. The different format options are great too.
If I were DC or Marvel, I'd sell reprints on pulp papers to the newsstands in a jumbo color format as part of the feeder system for new readers, say $ 5 for 5 assorted color issues. They put out those $ 1 issues, like Watchmen # 1, so don't tell me these can't still make a profit.
It's hard to believe they have implemented a print on demand option, but I guess they'd ruffle feathers with Diamond and especially the direct market. If they offered that to comic shops only, and you could buy issues on demand through their web site and print on your own paper, I'd do that for those really hard to find issues.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 23:52:13 GMT -5
I think it's about time everyone quit worrying about ruffling the feathers of Diamond and the direct market. Same day digital releases, and they should be cheaper of course. Print on demand is an excellent idea. No reason those reprints should ever be out of print, or selling for huge premiums on eBay. They're reprints! I understand not wanting to print a million of them and hope they sell over the next 20 years, but if some nobody can open a t shirt business built on clip art with zero up front capital or overhead thanks to print on demand, you'd think comic publishers could do something with it too.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 5, 2014 2:52:00 GMT -5
I wish print comics were still available in places beyond book stores and comic shops. My great hope is that digital becomes the new spinner rack, but as dupont points out, the comic shops are actually in the way of this. I don't want to see anyone go out of business, but it's not my duty to support an antiquated business model, either. I do agree that this is the Golden Age of collected editions.
My main gripe with Marvel and DC is that I feel that mainstream superhero comics aren't fun anymore. For me, the genre is best served not being constantly tied to uninspired events and is at its best in an all-ages context.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
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Post by shaxper on Jun 5, 2014 4:59:33 GMT -5
I wish print comics were still available in places beyond book stores and comic shops. This. Once comics went underground, so to speak, it led to: 1. Comics targeted to please one specific demographic rather than having a more general appeal 2. An industry that learned how to cater to a specific demographic and manipulated that demographic so well that it could generally bypass quality work all together and sell massively hyped tripe instead 3. absurdly high cover prices which, while partially caused by the rise in paper and printing costs, is also significantly impacted by lower circ numbers spreading the cost for creative teams, staff, and distribution among far fewer copies. I'd think a company selling books in the 500,000s rather than the 50,000s could probably get better bulk deals on paper and printing materials as well. 4. A decrease in readership that can only be offset by more hyped events rather than comics remaining a steady institution in our culture. |
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Post by Dizzy D on Jun 5, 2014 5:08:40 GMT -5
[snip] I wish non superhero and non licensed creator owned comics had even a fraction of the market share of superhero and licensed corporate owned intellectual property comics. They have: Image's marketshare is currently about 10% (and that's direct market only) and while they do have superhero titles, their output is more diverse than that and I think most of it isn't actually superhero at the moment. |
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ironchimp
Full Member
Simian Overlord
Posts: 456
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Post by ironchimp on Jun 5, 2014 5:30:41 GMT -5
Very good time to be a reader. web comics, unusual digital comics publishers, a lively small press, reprint programmes, ease of finding back issues and standards of art across the board is incredibly high. I can find things i enjoy at Dc and Marvel too - Elektra just melted my mind how beautiful that book looks - while at Dc i can see J H Williams go ballistic. Image have a good range of different genre books and are able to sell a lot of them. Lots of OGNs from all sort of publishers - from tiny press to traditional "literary" publishers.
Downsides - floppies are expensive (they are more than US cover price here in UK), "continuity" / shared universe fans and publishers attempts to make their history make "sense" can create tedious "continuity" fix stories, little incentive for writers to create new characters, could not recommend a floppy to a non comics fan who enjoys reading "literature", bit of a niche these days, the reappearance of the chromium/hologram/3d cover and other "collectable incentives"
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 5, 2014 6:29:24 GMT -5
Another thing I'd like to see is the return to prominence of the writer/artist. There was a time when Jack Kirby, John Byrne, Jim Starlin, Frank Miller, Walt Simonson, and others, were turning in some of the best and most creative material every published at Marvel and DC. I don't think it was an accident that so many classic runs were created under the pencil of a single creative vision.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 11:38:20 GMT -5
Another thing I'd like to see is the return to prominence of the writer/artist. There was a time when Jack Kirby, John Byrne, Jim Starlin, Frank Miller, Walt Simonson, and others, were turning in some of the best and most creative material every published at Marvel and DC. I don't think it was an accident that so many classic runs were created under the pencil of a single creative vision. The thing we sometimes forget though is some (not ll by any means) but some of those runs were done in bi-monthly books giving the writer/artist more time to produce the work. Kirby however would do 2 books a month and do 4 bi-monthly books, but as in many things, Kirby is the exception not the rule for mere mortal creators. Today's market won't sustain that bi-monthly model. Fans expect books at least monthly, if not bi-weekly or weekly. Such a release schedule does not facilitate a single creator doing all the work on a book. Also, all on your list (except Kirby) abandoned writer/artist for just writer at some point in their career because it allowed them to do more work and make more money than spending the time at the drawing board. Some of today's creators (Hickman, Lemire, Bendis) started as writer/artists as well, but the demands of the current market's production schedule has made it more viable to write only and have assembly line comics. I'd also question if the style was ever "prominent" as those creators accounted for at most 4-6 books a month, while the big 2 were producing a hundred or more titles a month, so even when they were doing it, they were not the prominent model but the exception to the rule. I will say though that with the advent of digital art programs, more and more artists are doing both the pencilling and inking giving the art are more complete look and eliminating some of the clashing styles between some pencil and ink artists. -M |
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Post by tolworthy on Jun 5, 2014 12:18:11 GMT -5
No sliding time scale nonsense. Characters age and die. On can always re-visit (Untold Tales of ____), re-vamp (legacy heroes), or re-do (Ultimate ____) but none of this compacting time as we go. Editors would actually edit, co-ordinate, and monitor. Characters wouldn't have completetly different personalities and powers under different writers. I'd bring back references to past issues. I'm sure I can think of more Definitely to all three! And I'd add: 4. Long term business thinking. Think of profits beyond the next five years: ask why a non-comic reader would care about this issue, and why a non-comic reader would care in ten years? If you can pass that barrier then big bucks await. It's not a question of art versus business, it's a question of business seeing beyond the next shareholder meeting. 5. Remember what made comics great. Stan Lee gave a pretty good formula in Fantastic Four issue 9: incredible exploits plus down to earth realism.  Read any of the greatest superhero comics: the pages alternate between "what is the most incredible thing we can think of?" and "how can we make this feel very real?" Jack Kirby was the master: no matter how cosmic the story, every page (pretty much) had some really ordinary street level touch that readers can recognise. That would radically change most current comics of course. Current superheroes are an elite, a club of billionaire friends who live in penthouses and have direct access to other elites. That all has to go, IMO. 6. Care. I want to see letters pages that are desperate for every reader. I want to see writers jumping on tables to act out stories again. I want them to feel that they have to grab new readers or go bust. 7. Basic business sense. Comics are entertainment. They compete with video and games. To thrive they need to give more bang per buck. A typical movie download or top rated game costs maybe two dollars per hour for top content (if you include the sunk cost of hardware). Comics have to match that if they are to thrive. And they could do: the big companies have massive numbers of back issues that cost nothing more to produce, yet can still be sold. They have to think in terms of selling a comic very cheap, and selling it often to new generations of fans, rather than price gouging a few middle aged nostalgia buffs. I suppose in short I want editors to raise their sights: to think big. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jun 5, 2014 12:18:37 GMT -5
I'd like comics in more than just comic shops. I started just at the turn of direct market in the early 90s. Many of my first comics are newsstand editions. It was nice to walk to the local gas station of Walgreens/Wolworths for a soda, candy, pack of baseball cards and a few comics. What if you HAD to go to a candy store to get a bag of Skittles? You couldn't get them anywhere else. Now why doing that to comics seemed a better idea to the industry than direct market candy would to Mars Co?
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Post by MatthewP on Jun 5, 2014 14:30:40 GMT -5
What I would like to see change back to more like "classic" days is having most stories be only 1 or 2 issues long. These days most books have every story stretched to 5 or 6 issues, and rarely are they really epic enough to deserve such length. A few books still do good one-and-done stories, but they seem to be the exception today.
I'd also like to see fewer giant crossover EVENTS (all caps because they're so big!). Little crossovers were fun, but big events should be rare, otherwise they're just not special. Plus these big events get stretched to 10 or 12 issues, which isn't big - it's just dragged out.
Between long stories and events, you're lucky to get 3 complete stories a year for a given character or team (unless you're Wolverine and appear in every single title).
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