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Post by tolworthy on Jun 5, 2014 14:51:56 GMT -5
What I would like to see change back to more like "classic" days is having most stories be only 1 or 2 issues long. These days most books have every story stretched to 5 or 6 issues, and rarely are they really epic enough to deserve such length. A few books still do good one-and-done stories, but they seem to be the exception today. I'd also like to see fewer giant crossover EVENTS (all caps because they're so big!). Little crossovers were fun, but big events should be rare, otherwise they're just not special. Plus these big events get stretched to 10 or 12 issues, which isn't big - it's just dragged out. Between long stories and events, you're lucky to get 3 complete stories a year for a given character or team (unless you're Wolverine and appear in every single title). Agreed! And it leads to the feeling of being cheated. For example, I subscribe to the FF, and was especially excited to hear that the Negative Zone would be explained at last. But despite buying every issue I missed that part, as you apparently needed to buy the "FF" magazine at the same time. To completely understand the "four minute" holiday story you had to buy all 16 issues of the FF, as well as all 16 issues of the main title: that's 32 issues at three dollars each: almost 100 dollars just to know what's going on. To me, it shows supreme contempt for the readers: if you don't shovel large sums of cash into their pockets they don't care about you at all.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 16:16:15 GMT -5
That's why I don't buy shared universe titles at all. Even if it's only two series, two titles. I am a lifelong fan of TMNT, and dropped it as soon as IDW started the "micro" series. Too many good comics out there for average quality comics to tie up my entire comic budget through double shipping. I hate hardball comic upselling by tying one series into the next. So I don't buy them, no matter what. If that's what happens with Afterlife With Archie, I'm dropping my subscription.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 16:22:09 GMT -5
I'd like comics in more than just comic shops. I started just at the turn of direct market in the early 90s. Many of my first comics are newsstand editions. It was nice to walk to the local gas station of Walgreens/Wolworths for a soda, candy, pack of baseball cards and a few comics. What if you HAD to go to a candy store to get a bag of Skittles? You couldn't get them anywhere else. Now why doing that to comics seemed a better idea to the industry than direct market candy would to Mars Co? Th biggest advantage with the direct market is that the books are not returnable. They sell the entire print run to the direct market and do not have to take back unsold copies. In the newsstand, books were returnable and often 40-60% of the print run was returned unsold, so it was expenditure without revenue, cutting into the profit margins of the comic companies. In the short term it was more profitable because it maximized revenue and minimized production costs, and pretty much all business models focus on the short term rather than the long term, because if the short term doesn't produce the desired results in that arena, the employees/executives making the short and long term decisions will not be there for the long term success to matter to them. There needs to be a balance between short and long term thinking, but the pendulum now will always sway to the short term because the instant gratification zeitgeist currently gripping our culture applies to stockholders and top level executives as much as the young consumers. Changing the distribution model requires short term loss and long term investment to build a different infrastructure. Comics don't matter enough to Disney or Warner Brothers for that to happen. The IP does, the comics themselves don't. Comics now serve as R&D for the company, and as long as the R&D department turns a profit however small, rather than costing the company, they are not going to abandon the status quo. Most R&D is a loss for the company written off out of profits gained. The fact comic publishing generates any revenue as a R&D arm of the corporation is pure bonus to them. Marvel and DC are not in the business of publishing anymore. They are small publishing wings in larger corporate entities. The publishing doesn't matter much to them at all. They will not be the ones to change the distribution model. It works fine for their needs currently. If anyone is going to build a different distribution model it will have to be the independents, whose primary business is still publishing. But the focus of their expansion into other markets thus far has not been individual issues but trade paperbacks. Publishers like First Second don't even worry about floppies or the direct market (though they are buries deep in the previews catalog), they produce OGN and sell directly to the book trade, Amazon, libraries etc. Image has placed copies of Walking Dead trades in stores like Meijers and Wal-Mart and done quite well. It's not just a matter of "if you build it they will come" to get back on newsstands. The floppy in that market may be dead and beyond resurrection. New markets and new product models are needed if you are going to revive comics beyond the direct market, and that is not something Marvel or DC (or more appropriately, the corporate masters of Marvel & DC) are going to finance or invest in. And people may not go to a candy shop to get Skittles, but they still got to butcher's shop to get better cuts of meat and to farm stands to get fresh vegetables, and to battery stores to get specialized batteries, and shoe stores to get shoes even though all those things are available at box stores like Wal-Mart etc. more conveniently. And some will go to candy shops to get better more niche candies that are not available in a mass produced artificially flavored packages. -M
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jun 5, 2014 16:58:58 GMT -5
I get the gist of it. It's profit as always. Now I don't think comics are so niche as they seemed to be when the change took place. When comic shops were dark dens and uninviting to a passerby hoarding all the comics in them seemed to keep them out of the hands of passive readers. And probably a lot I children's whose folks would probably buy the a book off the spinner rack and the drug store, but not think or even know that is where to go to get them.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 17:59:29 GMT -5
I'd like to see comics distributed elsewhere as well, but we're unlikely to see anyplace represent the kind of variety comic shops do, and I say that as someone who is of the opinion that comic shops don't have nearly the variety they should. I think an alternative distribution system could work for different types of retail outlets carrying a small selection of titles. Plenty of comics would be right at home at the record store, at Hot Topic, at Spencers. At the musical instrument store, at the tattoo parlor, at the bike shop, at the sporting goods store, I can see a few titles working here and there different places. I like that idea that kid had a while back for a comic book vending machine. He filled his with floppies, but I think it would work better with trades, graphic novels, mangas, and digests. But I could see that thing in airports and malls and maybe in a grocery store where they stuff the soda, toy, candy, and snack vending machines. Some stores have a huge area dedicated to vending machines.
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Post by Action Ace on Jun 5, 2014 20:40:43 GMT -5
I'd like modern comics to be a bit more "all ages." I'd like them to be quite a bit less worried about continuity. (Yes I know Grant Morrison left Jimmy Olsen as a vampire at the end of his run, but we've got a new writer now. No we're not going to waste time explaining why he's human again.) I'd like to see "writing for the trade" die in a fire. Frankly my position from 1998 that all comics should not be released in collected format until five years after the last issue came out has not changed. I think the Direct Market isn't going to last too much longer because some bean counter at Time Warner or Disney is going to decide publishing new comics just isn't worth the bother any more and that will be that. I beleive there will be some attempt to switch everything over to digital before it all goes away. I also think Time Warner and Disney would like to switch to all digital now to save costs, but they are afraid that a lot of their current customers won't make the switch. Full disclosure, a few years ago I told Dan Didio face to face that I would never buy a digital comic and that if DC did away with the floppy format my purchases of over a thousand dollars a year in new DC Comics would drop to zero. I think five years out DC/ Marvel will consist of some new digital comics with a huge backlist and some OGN's almost entirely in the Super/ Bat/ JLA/ Spidey/ X/ Avengers areas. Comics will continue to thrive though. All those kids reading things like Diary of a Wimpy Kid will be comic creators in a few years. Comics will be in all genres, lots of formats and all over the internet. Disney, Time Warner and other corporate giants will be buying/ swindling them too. Now I'll never have heard of any of these great comics, but I will be happy at home reading my back issues. You can't stop change, but sometimes you're lucky enough to not have to foot the bill. Now, will someone please explain to me what a "cell" phone is again? (no I'm not 88, I'm 44, I just act 88 far too often)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 20:48:06 GMT -5
A cell phone is that thing kids read comics on
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jun 5, 2014 21:11:09 GMT -5
Things will never return to how they used to be.That ship sailed off long ago.Newspaper circulation plummetting,magazines dying left and right.The newstand is a dinosaur.And for comics to be sold anywhere else besides comic stores, they would have to be returnable which is a huge money drain to any comic company.Forget it-they can't and won't go back to that system.Floppies have nowhere to go except slowly dying in the direct market That leaves digital and graphic novels-originals and collections.They'll hang around the rest of our lives but it will be a totally different business.The shared universe model will die with the floppies
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 21:19:06 GMT -5
I don't think they have to be returnable. That's just if you want to sell them where they used to be sold, and that's only if you're selling a product that loses all it's market appeal every thirty days. Floppies. When issue 236 comes out, issue 235 has to go.
I'm talking an entirely new format. And I'm talking places that already buy non returnable product, places that buy nothing but non returnable product. Why would they expect their graphic novels to be any different? The current comic market needs a major overhaul if it wants to experience growth. I think we can all agree the market is going to shrink somewhat rapidly, as all print demand does. For such a niche market already I don't think they can ignore this for much longer. They'll have to rethink the four dollar monthly that they triple ship anyway. Look at which areas of the industry are experiencing growth and shift in that direction. The base market of fanboys, the monopoly distributor of floppies, and the direct market retail outlet be damned. They can no longer afford to bend over backwards to keep Diamond, the LCS, and the guy that's gonna buy Spiderman anyway happy. They need to attract new readers. They need to attract more females, more young people, more minorities, more of every demographic they are lacking. That includes lower income people as well. Instead of relying on collectors buying multiple copies of variant covers every once in a while to artificially boost sales temporarily. I believe it's going to take a lot more than another girl on the Avengers and another black guy in the X-Men to do it too. I think they need to look into new formats that allow wider distribution outside the direct market, new price points, ways of reducing costs other than cutting back on number of pages.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jun 5, 2014 21:35:27 GMT -5
I don't think they have to be returnable. That's just if you want to sell them where they used to be sold, and that's only if you're selling a product that loses all it's market appeal every thirty days. Floppies. When issue 236 comes out, issue 235 has to go. I'm talking an entirely new format. And I'm talking places that already buy non returnable product, places that buy nothing but non returnable product. Why would they expect their graphic novels to be any different? Lets say I'm the owner of Sam's Widget store.How would you entice me to buy your graphic novels on a non-returnable basis? What discounts are you offering?Whats the minimum purchase in # of titles and quantity per title?How often are new ones available? Whats the retail price point?What advertising are you supplying on the project? What store displays are you offering?Remember-I'm a widget store.Why would I be interested in accumulating non-widgets taking up space in my store with no quarentees.And if the scenario is so easy to imagine,why hasn't it been tried already?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 21:40:14 GMT -5
I don't think they have to be returnable. That's just if you want to sell them where they used to be sold, and that's only if you're selling a product that loses all it's market appeal every thirty days. Floppies. When issue 236 comes out, issue 235 has to go. I'm talking an entirely new format. And I'm talking places that already buy non returnable product, places that buy nothing but non returnable product. Why would they expect their graphic novels to be any different? Lets say I'm the owner of Sam's Widget store.How would you entice me to buy your graphic novels on a non-returnable basis? What discounts are you offering?Whats the minimum purchase in # of titles and quantity per title?How often are new ones available? Whats the retail price point?What advertising are you supplying on the project? What store displays are you offering?Remember-I'm a widget store.Why would I be interested in accumulating non-widgets taking up space in my store with no quarentees.And if the scenario is so easy to imagine,why hasn't it been tried already? It has been tried. The newsstand wasn't selling Zap Comix back in the day. Head shops did. If you were a goth store like Hot Topic and already selling tee shirts with Vertigo's Death on them, and your distributor all the sudden had a death graphic novel available with a 50% retail mark up, what more would you need to see? What enticed them to order the tee shirts and posters and lunch pails with Johnny The Homicidal Maniac on them? I don't think a retailer outside the direct market selling graphic novels would be worried about when the next one came out, or if there even is a next one. When a bookstore orders an autobiography they don't ask the author when the next one is. When a movie theater decides to screen Lincoln they aren't worried about the eventual sequel. I just don't think it's a great stretch of logic that a store that sells Superman tee shirts might be convinced to sell Superman graphic novels.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jun 5, 2014 21:45:01 GMT -5
Sam's Widget store might try out your graphic novels about widgets if your terms are to Sam's advantage.He would not be interested in anything else
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 22:06:40 GMT -5
The advantage to the term is a huge retail markup on a product aimed at the same demographic as every other product in your store. If a store sells Superman tee shirts, coffee cups, shoes, posters, and figures, safe bet the people buying that might check out the graphic novel too. Or what is the huge advantageous deal on the posters? Are they returnable?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 22:08:45 GMT -5
I'd like to see comics distributed elsewhere as well, but we're unlikely to see anyplace represent the kind of variety comic shops do, and I say that as someone who is of the opinion that comic shops don't have nearly the variety they should. I think an alternative distribution system could work for different types of retail outlets carrying a small selection of titles. Plenty of comics would be right at home at the record store, at Hot Topic, at Spencers. At the musical instrument store, at the tattoo parlor, at the bike shop, at the sporting goods store, I can see a few titles working here and there different places. I like that idea that kid had a while back for a comic book vending machine. He filled his with floppies, but I think it would work better with trades, graphic novels, mangas, and digests. But I could see that thing in airports and malls and maybe in a grocery store where they stuff the soda, toy, candy, and snack vending machines. Some stores have a huge area dedicated to vending machines. About 2-3 years ago news broke that Steve Niles was trying to put together an alternate distribution system for smallpress comics, stuff Diamond wouldn't touch. He was gathering funding, publishers, creators, all getting on board. One of his primary goals was to distribute to places like Hot Topic, Starbucks, etc. The effort was stillborn and rumor was Hot Topic told him they had no desire to carry comics, they were not a comic shop and when word got out, the funding and support for his endeavor dried up. So I agree it would be nice to put books in places like that, but no one ever stops to consider if those places want to carry books...it seems they don't. IT takes a lot of labor to maintain the section and a knowledge of the product the tpyical employee doesn't have so it makes it too labor intensive to be cost effective for them. -M
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 22:15:32 GMT -5
Yeah, like I said though, there would have to be a major overhaul of the very format of comics. I am not fooling myself into thinking any store outside the direct market wants to stock monthly floppies.
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