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Post by berkley on May 2, 2015 21:27:17 GMT -5
That looks much more impressive than some of the other Kwapisz samples I've seen online. I'll feel more encouraged to give some of the Kwapisz SSoCs a try if this is indicative of the bulk of his Conan work. These artist portfolios seem to have been one of the strong points of the later SSoC (i.e. after I stopped reading the series), based on this and the Pablo Marcos ones posted earlier. I like Jusko's covers much of the time, though even at its best it's a bit too slick and shiny to ever be a favourite with me, but his cover to SSoC #96 looks pretty terrible, to my eyes. One of the worst I've ever seen from him. Some of the dialogue in the main story sounds hilarious: "The pincers! The pincers!" Somehow that doesn't strike me as a likely choice of words for the victim in that predicament! And yes, the giant Preying Mantis and Conan's casual reference to its presence do seem entirely misplaced in REH's Hyperborean world. (edit:) forgot to add that I'm fully in agreement with benday-dot and Rob Allen that RR'S reviews in this thread would make an excellent book-form SSoC Companion, with minimal editing. I agree with your opinion about this cover berk. That cover is kind of repulsive, and not in a good way, if you get my meaning. I am not a huge Jusko fan, he really does seem to come off as too slick and shiny as you say. There is a certain "school" of fantasy painting that seemed to emerge in the mid-late 70's, especially with the rise of Heavy Metal (the mag and the music), and oddly even influenced by disco, that really turns me off. It's bright airbrushed look, overly rendered and static looking composition, slick appearance, and often puerile, juvenile or even misogynistic character turns me off. It comes across as dated, vacuous and cringe worthy. There is a hint of this even in some Frazetta painting, but mostly it postdates him, and certainly veers far afield from the golden age of classic fantasy painting and illustration... true masters like St. John, Parish, Wyeth, Rackham and of course those like Krenkel, Angelos, Williamson, Jones, Windsor-Smith and indeed (mostly) Frazetta himself. Good point - I never thought of the disco connection, but you're right: there was a certain tinselly quality to the entire 80s aesthetic in western pop culture that quite possibly had a lot to do with disco, unless possibly we can trace it to something deeper that produced this fascination with surface flash in disco and other aspects of pop culture at the time. Actually, just typing that, phrasing the question that way, gives me an idea of what that something might be - a reaction against the grit and realism of the 70s, which grew out of the disillusionment that followed the optimism of the 60s. I think there is more than a hint of it in the worst Frazetta, but that's a small minority of his work, IMO. I'd say this is a case of Frazetta's imitators choosing the most superficial aspects of his style to exaggerate - same thing happens all the time in art, music, literature, etc, etc.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 22:13:07 GMT -5
I agree with your opinion about this cover berk. That cover is kind of repulsive, and not in a good way, if you get my meaning. I am not a huge Jusko fan, he really does seem to come off as too slick and shiny as you say. There is a certain "school" of fantasy painting that seemed to emerge in the mid-late 70's, especially with the rise of Heavy Metal (the mag and the music), and oddly even influenced by disco, that really turns me off. It's bright airbrushed look, overly rendered and static looking composition, slick appearance, and often puerile, juvenile or even misogynistic character turns me off. It comes across as dated, vacuous and cringe worthy. There is a hint of this even in some Frazetta painting, but mostly it postdates him, and certainly veers far afield from the golden age of classic fantasy painting and illustration... true masters like St. John, Parish, Wyeth, Rackham and of course those like Krenkel, Angelos, Williamson, Jones, Windsor-Smith and indeed (mostly) Frazetta himself. Good point - I never thought of the disco connection, but you're right: there was a certain tinselly quality to the entire 80s aesthetic in western pop culture that quite possibly had a lot to do with disco, unless possibly we can trace it to something deeper that produced this fascination with surface flash in disco and other aspects of pop culture at the time. Actually, just typing that, phrasing the question that way, gives me an idea of what that something might be - a reaction against the grit and realism of the 70s, which grew out of the disillusionment that followed the optimism of the 60s. I think there is more than a hint of it in the worst Frazetta, but that's a small minority of his work, IMO. I'd say this is a case of Frazetta's imitators choosing the most superficial aspects of his style to exaggerate - same thing happens all the time in art, music, literature, etc, etc. It's a look that I think came to prominence with Boris Vallejo and his followers. Some of Boris' early work is quite good, but it began to take on that plastic, posed, shiny, look benday mentioned after a bit (personally I think some of it is the influence of Julie Bell on his work, but that's another topic). For every Boris piece I like and think works, there's 8 or 9 I can't stand, and a lot has to do with the excesses you mentioned that often crop up in the work of Jusko and others who are obviously influenced by Boris' body of work. There may be some of it in Frazetta, and that may be what Boris picked up on form the Frazetta influence rather than the Frazetta elements that work better, but it never came to dominate Frazetta's work the way it did Boris and the school of fantasy illustrators that followed in his wake. -M
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Post by berkley on May 3, 2015 0:48:26 GMT -5
Yes, I agree completely about Vallejo: love his earlier work, for example the covers he did for several of the first 10 or so issues of SSoC, or some of the paperback covers he was producing around the same time; can't stand his later stuff.
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Post by benday-dot on May 3, 2015 13:08:43 GMT -5
Again I find myself in agreement with the above by berk and mrp (and yes, Julie Bell, I had almost forgotten about that spectre.) Fantasy painters who strive for hyper-realism to the point of photographic imitation, as is too often the case with Boris, coupled with a garish lighting I find rarely do the work any favour, despite the impressive technical achievement. Fantasy needs to evoke something beyond the quotidian, the mere imitation of the apparent, of the overtly real, regardless of the outlandishness of the subject. It needs to evoke atmosphere and wonder. Compare the work of Jeff Jones to later Boris. One stirs the senses and the soul, the other leaves nothing to be desired. In general, I prefer line work in fantasy over painting, because of the pitfalls inherent in certain painters styles. Yes, I am thinking of some Frazetta here, although I think Fritz does a good job in general with atmosphere on his Burroughs work and Lancer Conan covers. This is a gorgeous Frazetta classic completely capturing the primal "truth" of Tarzan
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Post by berkley on May 3, 2015 13:40:07 GMT -5
I think Frazetta's best ERB work was for the Barsoom series, where the fantasy is blended with science fiction elements. But he produced great work for a host of characters and books and mags, from Conan to his Warren covers to you name it.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 3, 2015 14:34:56 GMT -5
Compare the work of Jeff Jones to later Boris. One stirs the senses and the soul, the other leaves nothing to be desired. I love Jones' fantasy work; much more, it terms of the emotions it stirs, than I like Frazetta's. It's a pity that while Jones did many covers for REH books, we never got the chance to see a SSoC cover done by him.
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Post by Rob Allen on May 4, 2015 18:30:08 GMT -5
It's a look that I think came to prominence with Boris Vallejo and his followers. I think the Hildebrandt brothers were very influential as well; not sure if Boris influenced them or vice versa, or if it went both ways.
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Post by benday-dot on May 4, 2015 21:24:07 GMT -5
I used to be a huge fan of the Brothers Hildebrandt as a kid in the 70's. I can't recall how many hours I spent looking at their Tolkein calendars. I was much more familiar with the imagery of Tolkein before I was with the words of Tolkein himself. I saw the work before I read it.
Tim (the other twin is Greg) died in 2006.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 21:37:47 GMT -5
I used to be a huge fan of the Brothers Hildebrandt as a kid in the 70's. I can't recall how many hours I spent looking at their Tolkein calendars. I was much more familiar with the imagery of Tolkein before I was with the words of Tolkein himself. I saw the work before I read it. Tim (the other twin is Greg) died in 2006. The other place I discovered the work of the Hildebrandts was on the cover of the Sword of Shanara by Terry Brooks (an excerpt of which appeared in Heavy Metal #1), one of the early successful novels that started a wave of Tolkien imitators in the late 70s and early 80s and lead to the standard expectation of fantasy series rather than standalone novels. While I agree the Hidlebrandts were highly influential on the next wave of fantasy artists because their work got so much exposure, I don't see it in the Vallejo school. Their color pallette is much more muted and flat than Vallejo, and the physiques are much less about imposing musculature and cheesecake while the anatomy is far less photorealistic. They did go cheesecake in later years, but their early work did not feature much of it. I also think that the Hildebrandts lacked that shiny ,sweaty almost swarmy look that characterized Vallejo's later work (and Jusko's) that we were discussing above. Moreso I think of the Hildebrandt's an an opposing influence on fantasy art, one that informed epic fantasy moreso than the sword and sorcery type stuff Vallejo was doing. There is one artist who I do see as a marriage of the two influences though, and that is Clyde Caldwell, whose work I am mostly familiar with through Dragon Magazine and D&D related material.... who emerged in the early 80s and seemed to borrow elements of both schools of art and who did a handful of SSoC covers to bring thisback to point... -M
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Post by berkley on May 4, 2015 22:35:50 GMT -5
Some of the Hildebrandts' stuff is pleasant enough in its limited way, but they wouldn't be my choice for any of my favourite books or characters. Still, as that Tolkien-derivative fantasy sub-genre goes, it's probably better than most. Nice use of shadow, the colour palette isn't too glaring and flashy, and I especially I like the solidity of their forms, animate and inanimate - they have a feeling of mass and weight that's lacking in a lot of fantasy art.
I don't like Caldwell much. Too bright and showy, for me. The SSoC cover has a darker tone, but it looks like an early work and looks crude to the point of awkwardness without any compensating sense of crude force. I can't help noting, though - it's hilarious how the serpentine monster's ribbed and elongated torso is echoed in Conan's absurdly long, narrow, er, whatever you call that thing he's wearing between his legs. Unconscious symbolism or a deliberate joke?
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 5, 2015 5:36:22 GMT -5
The scabbard also has a suspect form.
Conan the swordsman indeed!
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Post by foxley on May 5, 2015 8:08:15 GMT -5
As much as I love Frazetta, I have never been a big fan of his depictions of Tarzan. There is too much of the brute in his portrayal of the Jungle Lord, which doesn't tally with Burroughs' description. Frazetta's hulking frames work much better with Conan than Tarzan.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 5, 2015 17:07:45 GMT -5
Savage sword of Conan #97, February 1984 Cover by Gaetano Liberatore, who is not a frequent contributor to this mag. More's the pity: I really like the way Conan and the lady depicted here look like actual people and not steroid-boosted models with silicon implants. The frontispiece is once again a double page spread (a vertical one if you put the mag sideways) on the inside front and back covers. This issue's is by Dave Simons, an artist who passed away far too young a few years ago. Table of contentsThe leopard men of Darfar! A Conan story Plus a series of full-page illustrations by Gary Kwapisz, like this one: Say, that monster looks like the one on the Caldwell cover from earlier in this thread!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 5, 2015 17:17:55 GMT -5
SSoC #97------------ The leopard men of Darfar!Script by Michael Fleisher Art by Pablo Marcos As youngsters say nowadays: "I can't even". After last issue's story, which was one of Fleisher's best in this magazine, "the leopard men of Darfar" is unfortunately one of the worst. In all honesty, I hated it less upon this most recent reading than in the 80s, but it is still a painful experience. What saving grace it has is the Marcos artwork. I am not a fan of the way Pablo twists his characters' limbs in sometimes awkward ways, but some images look pretty good anyway; I especially like the way Marcos's cross-hatching renders the way light plays on limbs and objects. Some dialogue is also amusing; one of the character is a very verbose scholar, and his logorrhoea makes for a welcome comedic relief to what is otherwise an implausible and almost offensive plot. To wit: "Nay, you needn't fear that I was about to bore you, barbarian! For, indeed it's clear you're a man who'd much prefer to learn life's lessons from personal experience than from oral recitations! Still and all, however, you may find yourself appreciative of some sort of advance introduction to what is surely one of the greatest natural wonders of the Black Kingdoms... Mozembi Sawabi! Which, freely translated, means... cataract of doom!" (This long-winded speech is delivered as the boat everyone is traveling on rushes toward said cataract). The tale is set during Conan's days at the side of Bêlit, the Queen of the Black Coast and leader of the dreaded Black Corsairs. You know, Bêlit, "Conan's first great love"? The one with whom Conan was actually happy? Apparently not good enough, for as this story opens we learn that Conan, seeking a respite from the corsair life, has taken his leave of his mate and has decided to work for a rich Stygian merchant from Luxur. Yes, Conan of the Black Corsairs has decided to dump his lady love for a while and go looking for a job in Stygia. The country that Bêlit particularly hates, the ships of which she and Conan regularly sink, the country where the two pirates will burn a fleet under the walls of Khemi and the king of which they will murder. That Stygia. It makes perfect sense for Conan to take a working holiday there. *Sigh*... I apologize... please forgive my petulant tone. But it is no less than this story deserves. Okay... So let's play the cards that we were dealt. Conan is hired by a Stygian merchant to recover his spoiled and pampered daughter Anya, who was abducted by a bandit chief. (Kudos to Pablo Marcos: the bandits actually look like Stygians. And tip of the hat to Fleisher as well: when Conan attacks their camp, one of them actually swears by Set). The Cimmerian defeats the raiders and recovers the girl, but that doesn't mean his mission is over: the main force of the miscreants is not present (their leader included), and the abducted girl doesn't want to go home. Why? Well, her natural-sounding speech must be reproduced here: <i>"My father? Pah! I spit on my father! All he ever cared about was keeping me chaste and chaperoned so that I might remain unsoiled and virginal until my marriage! But it is Tomak Tharn, the robber chieftain who abducted me, who has initiated me in the ways of love and the fleshy joys of womanhood"!</i> That bit about the "fleshy joys of womanhood" had been bursting out laughing. Conan states that he loves gold far more than the girl loves her bandit chief and he forces her to come with him. Unfortunately, the barbarian and his shrill-voiced captive are in turn captured by slavers while reasting in an oasis. Meanwhile, Tomak Tharn discovers that his lover has been taken from him, which destabilizes the fellow to such an extent that he swears by Tarim's blood. (I should have known that a Stygian swearing by Set was too good to last forever). He then swears by Ishtar, and again by Mitra as he kills one of his own men who survived Conan's earlier attack. The bandits next start following the Cimmerian and the girl. These two are next seen among chained slaves being driven by camel-riding men; they make the acquaintance of Lesuthi Pa, a Darfari who became a Nemedian scholar and is now making his way back home. He's the one who talks a lot.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 5, 2015 17:21:24 GMT -5
When the column nears extensive marshes, Conan sees an opportunity to escape. With a single blow, he hits a camel so hard that the beast falls several feet away, taking its rider with it. (Curse you, Conan movie, you and your camel-punching meme!) Conan, Anya and Lesuthi (chained together) run toward the marshes where the slavers don't really want to follow. (The chagrined reflections of the slavers are amusing, though: "Bah! After all we go through just to earn an honest sovereign, you'd think people would appreciate us more than they do!"). The escaping trio crosses the marshes, and we see that Anya is dropping bits and pieces of her outfit behind her, Hop-o'-My-Thumb like, to facilitate her lover's pursuit. They all quickly reach the villa of a wealthy Stygian who pretends to wish to help them, but who instead warns the local constabulary that escaped slaves are hiding in his home. A great massacre ensues, and Conan and his companions escape. Tomak Tharn makes his way to the place shortly thereafter, swearing by Mitra this time, and learns of the trio's recent visit. Robbing the perfidious host, he continues on his way with his men. In the jungle that grows beyond the marshes, Conan breaks the chains that links the three traveling companions. A giant snake takes that opportunity to try and eat Anya, but since this is a jungle I guess it doesn't qualify as a genuine "unrelated monster of the week attack". After the snake is killed and Conan makes sexist jokes about Anya's cooking skills, the Cimmerian ambushes traveling cannibals to steal their canoe, killing them all by surprise. Pointing out that these guys were cannibals hardly justifies Conan's behaviour: the fellows weren't threatening and were minding their own business. They were murdered for no other reason than Conan was tired of walking. The stolen skiff is supposed to speed up the journey of our trio, but the river voyage nearly comes to a disastrous end as they reach the "cataract of Doom". Conan skillfully manages to steer the canoe down the vertical wall of water until the boat hits a rock. Bummer.
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