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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 9, 2014 8:51:57 GMT -5
. My (quite possibly inaccurate) impression is that REH wrote such a small number of Kull stories that even one single "Mirrors of Tuzun Thune" carries a lot of weight in determining the kind of character he was in contrast to Conan. It does indeed, since it represents a third of the Kull material published during Howard's lifetime! Excepting the short poem the king and the oak, the other published story was the shadow kingdom, which sets Kull against the serpent-men and is a straightforward adventure tale. Kull not being a philosopher-king was what surprised me the most when re-reading the Del Rey book a few years ago: in those stories and fragments, the king is more often than not a man of action. The poetic and otherworldly aspects of stories like Delcardes' cat or of the poem the king and the oak are not appreciated nor reflected upon by the protagonist, who in both cases just hacks his way through the problems at hand. Alan Zelenetz deserves a lot of credit for furthering Kull's character as a thinking man. In the third volume of Marvel's Kull (the one with the Sienkiewicz, Golden and Windsor-Smith covers), the king ponders the appropriateness of slavery in Valusia, battles for Tu's very soul, and tries to salve a young girl's heart without breaking it. He's far more chivalrous than barbaric, even while remaining something of the stranger among us, trying to understand civilization without being truly part of it.
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Post by paulie on Aug 9, 2014 17:37:53 GMT -5
. My (quite possibly inaccurate) impression is that REH wrote such a small number of Kull stories that even one single "Mirrors of Tuzun Thune" carries a lot of weight in determining the kind of character he was in contrast to Conan. It does indeed, since it represents a third of the Kull material published during Howard's lifetime! Excepting the short poem the king and the oak, the other published story was the shadow kingdom, which sets Kull against the serpent-men and is a straightforward adventure tale. Kull not being a philosopher-king was what surprised me the most when re-reading the Del Rey book a few years ago: in those stories and fragments, the king is more often than not a man of action. The poetic and otherworldly aspects of stories like Delcardes' cat or of the poem the king and the oak are not appreciated nor reflected upon by the protagonist, who in both cases just hacks his way through the problems at hand. Alan Zelenetz deserves a lot of credit for furthering Kull's character as a thinking man. In the third volume of Marvel's Kull (the one with the Sienkiewicz, Golden and Windsor-Smith covers), the king ponders the appropriateness of slavery in Valusia, battles for Tu's very soul, and tries to salve a young girl's heart without breaking it. He's far more chivalrous than barbaric, even while remaining something of the stranger among us, trying to understand civilization without being truly part of it. I have quite the soft spot for the Alan Zelenetz Kull's. He was really building something there but once again it was truncated. I was always a big fan of the John Buscema-Klaus Janson team as well.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 10, 2014 5:37:32 GMT -5
It does indeed, since it represents a third of the Kull material published during Howard's lifetime! Excepting the short poem the king and the oak, the other published story was the shadow kingdom, which sets Kull against the serpent-men and is a straightforward adventure tale. Kull not being a philosopher-king was what surprised me the most when re-reading the Del Rey book a few years ago: in those stories and fragments, the king is more often than not a man of action. The poetic and otherworldly aspects of stories like Delcardes' cat or of the poem the king and the oak are not appreciated nor reflected upon by the protagonist, who in both cases just hacks his way through the problems at hand. Alan Zelenetz deserves a lot of credit for furthering Kull's character as a thinking man. In the third volume of Marvel's Kull (the one with the Sienkiewicz, Golden and Windsor-Smith covers), the king ponders the appropriateness of slavery in Valusia, battles for Tu's very soul, and tries to salve a young girl's heart without breaking it. He's far more chivalrous than barbaric, even while remaining something of the stranger among us, trying to understand civilization without being truly part of it. I have quite the soft spot for the Alan Zelenetz Kull's. He was really building something there but once again it was truncated. I was always a big fan of the John Buscema-Klaus Janson team as well. They do make a good team, don't they? I love their collaboration on the second part of the treasure of Tranicos. I always felt that Janson adds a touch of realism to whatever he inks.
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Post by berkley on Aug 10, 2014 20:00:00 GMT -5
I've avoided that 1983 Kull series mainly because of my prejudice against 80s Marvel: I didn't like what I saw from the company in the early 80s and once I stopped reading their books wasn't particularly tempted to go back. But I might have to try a few issues of this. Not too sure about John Buscema on Kull - I'm a little afraid his Kull might not be very distinguishable from his Conan. And I found Klaus Jansen's inks were becoming more and more sketchy around this time, so even though he had been a favourite inker earlier in his career, I'm leery of what he might have come up with on this series. I'll probably give it a try, though, at some point. Still, can't help wishing they'd asked Marie Severin to draw it.
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Post by paulie on Aug 11, 2014 9:22:41 GMT -5
I've avoided that 1983 Kull series mainly because of my prejudice against 80s Marvel: I didn't like what I saw from the company in the early 80s and once I stopped reading their books wasn't particularly tempted to go back. But I might have to try a few issues of this. Not too sure about John Buscema on Kull - I'm a little afraid his Kull might not be very distinguishable from his Conan. And I found Klaus Jansen's inks were becoming more and more sketchy around this time, so even though he had been a favourite inker earlier in his career, I'm leery of what he might have come up with on this series. I'll probably give it a try, though, at some point. Still, can't help wishing they'd asked Marie Severin to draw it. Alan Zelenetz' scripts are so well written that there'll be no doubt it's Kull you're reading about. Big John could have drawn Captain Carrot and you'd just think 'Kull.'
Having said that Buscema's work here seems to be of a particularly high quality.
Marie Severin comes back to ink an issue (#7).
And just like his Conan the King, the book ends abruptly just as Zelenetz was getting to the meat of his story. A real shame.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 15, 2014 7:26:43 GMT -5
I've avoided that 1983 Kull series mainly because of my prejudice against 80s Marvel: I didn't like what I saw from the company in the early 80s and once I stopped reading their books wasn't particularly tempted to go back. But I might have to try a few issues of this. Not too sure about John Buscema on Kull - I'm a little afraid his Kull might not be very distinguishable from his Conan. And I found Klaus Jansen's inks were becoming more and more sketchy around this time, so even though he had been a favourite inker earlier in his career, I'm leery of what he might have come up with on this series. I'll probably give it a try, though, at some point. Still, can't help wishing they'd asked Marie Severin to draw it. Alan Zelenetz' scripts are so well written that there'll be no doubt it's Kull you're reading about. Big John could have drawn Captain Carrot and you'd just think 'Kull.'
Having said that Buscema's work here seems to be of a particularly high quality.
Marie Severin comes back to ink an issue (#7).
And just like his Conan the King, the book ends abruptly just as Zelenetz was getting to the meat of his story. A real shame.
Agreed on all points! Zelenetz was using the Gilgamesh/Enkidu story as inspiration in his last two issues, too, which was a pretty cool idea.
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Post by berkley on Aug 16, 2014 22:06:08 GMT -5
Is Zelenetz writing comics still? What else has he done that's recommended?
Intrigued with the idea of a Kull story inspired by Gilgamesh/Enkidu. As king of Valusia, I suppose Kull would take on the Gilgamesh role, unless it takes place before his accession to the throne - or is it not such a straightforward one-to-one mapping? It's interesting to look at how the Gilgamesh/Enkidu duality has been transformed down through the history of western culture.
It would seem that there should have been multiple comic-book versions of Gilgamesh by now - we've had lots of Heracles/Hercules, a few Achilles (actually not enough of him either), at least one Beowulf comic that I know of ... why not Gilgamesh, the earliest of them all? There was a Starlin series I haven't read yet read, but that sounds more like a science-fiction re-imagining than the kind of sword & sandal or sword & sorcery comic I'm thinking of.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 17, 2014 8:45:21 GMT -5
Is Zelenetz writing comics still? What else has he done that's recommended? Intrigued with the idea of a Kull story inspired by Gilgamesh/Enkidu. As king of Valusia, I suppose Kull would take on the Gilgamesh role, unless it takes place before his accession to the throne - or is it not such a straightforward one-to-one mapping? It's interesting to look at how the Gilgamesh/Enkidu duality has been transformed down through the history of western culture. It would seem that there should have been multiple comic-book versions of Gilgamesh by now - we've had lots of Heracles/Hercules, a few Achilles (actually not enough of him either), at least one Beowulf comic that I know of ... why not Gilgamesh, the earliest of them all? There was a Starlin series I haven't read yet read, but that sounds more like a science-fiction re-imagining than the kind of sword & sandal or sword & sorcery comic I'm thinking of. I really liked Zelenetz' Howardian material at Marvel; whether it be his King Conan of his Kull material, and even if he did not directly tie into any of Howard's stories, he really "got" the characters. Even his fill-in issue on Conan the barbarian (issue #145) was a breath of fresh air during the dismal early 80 years. Zelenetz also wrote Moon Knight for a while; I think it was the second volume, when the hero started wearing golden trinkets… I didn't much care for that run. It wasn't bad, but wasn't as good as the Moench/Sienkiewicz issues; the impression those issues left me is similar to that left by the Gerry Conway Swamp Thing at DC. Regarding Gilgamesh, I believe that Walt Simonson introduced him in the Marvel universe as one of the Eternals (in Avengers, of all places). I doubt he stayed an Avenger for long. The Starlin Gilgamesh was closer to a spoof on Superman than to a Sumerian legend, but it did have the same element also touched by the Kull comic-book: that of a wild man who starts as an enemy and becomes the friend of a king who's so far above regular fiolks that he tends to feel a little alone.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 17, 2014 8:50:39 GMT -5
Savage sword of Conan #24, november 1977Cover by Earl Norem. Very pulpy, full of action and drama; I like this cover. This issue's contents: The tower of the elephant, one of the most famous Conan stories by Robert E. Howard. Swackles, thuds, and blunders, a review of the fan-magazine Amra. Fionn McCumhal day in Eastmere, more society for creative anachronisms stuff. Cimmeria, the REH poem illustrated by Barry-Smith and now inked by Tim Conrad. And all this stuff used to cost a mere dollar. Heavens.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 17, 2014 9:30:57 GMT -5
The tower of the elephantScript by Roy Thomas Art by John Buscema and Alfredo Alcala Adapting the Conan story by Robert E. Howard. The tower of the elephant is the third published Conan story (Weird Tales, March 1933), and the first one that doesn't feature him as king of Aquilonia. In this tale, Conan is still a mere youth (even if a pretty big one), trying to make a living as a thief in Zamora's unnamed city of thieves. Says Howard in a letter: "As you deduct, Conan was about seventeen when he was introduced to the public in "The Tower of the Elephant." While not fully matured, he was riper than the average civilized youth at that age." This is the second time this particular story was adapted at Marvel; Roy Thomas and Barry Smith had already presented the tale (in its proper chronological place) in issue #4 of Conan the barbarian. Why a new adaptation? Here's what Roy says in this issue: Personally, I don't think CtB #4 suffered from its 20-page format; Roy and Barry did an outstanding job with its pacing, and the issue didn't feel rushed at all. But hey! I agree fully with reason #2, and do not mind at all multiple adaptations of great stories. The only other times I can think of that involve the straight retelling of a story are SSoC #222, in which John Buscema gave us his version of "The coming of Conan" first seen in CtB #1, and the origin of Red Sonja ("the day of the sword") which was drawn by Howard Chaykin in Kull and the barbarians #3 and by Dick Giordano and Terry Austin in SSoC #78. (There might be others, of course, but none come to mind at this moment; and naturally, I do not include a story seen from different angles, as happened with Black colossus in SSoC #2 and CtB #247-249, or a story that was finished in different ways by different authors, as with the curse of the golden skull (CtB #37) / City of skulls (SSoC #59). Since The tower of the elephant has also been adapted at Dark Horse, I hope you will forgive me if I make a few comparisons between all these versions. ... I would probably be among the fans who vehemently claim that CtB #4 was one of the finest Conan comic stories, and so I can't say that I saw the need for this new adaptation; nevertheless, let us give credit where credit is due. It has a more down-to-earth feel than the earlier Smith version, and Alcala is in full Gustave Doré mode. John Buscema also made an effort to make Conan appear a little younger than usual. The story's opening establishes Conan as a young wolf in a city of jackals, and as a thief more daring than experienced. The plot is straightforward, but the world-building and the execution are truly remarkable; no wonder that this tale is a perennial favourite. The tale unfolds as follows: young Conan intends to steal a legendary jewel called "the heart of the elephant", which is in the possession of a wizard named Yara, who dwells in a high tower named "tower of the elephant". This Yara fellow is seldom seen and is a man of such power that even in the despotic state of Zamora, he pretty much does as he wishes. The thieves who, in the past, tried to get their hands on the jewel have met gruesome ends and it has become a byword for an unobtainable prize. The tower is surrounded by high walls, and its gardens are guarded by armed men and (we discover) by silent lions. As fate would have it, the enterprising thief makes his attempt the very same night a colleague of much greater repute and skill, one Taurus, prince of thieves, decides on the same course of action. The two men meet and decide to join forces for the time being.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 17, 2014 10:00:00 GMT -5
Thanks to Taurus' skill and equipment, the two men manage to reach the base of the tower unharmed. They climb up the sheer walls of the tower all the way to its jewel-encrusted summit, where they find a door. Taurus decides to investigate while Conan checks out the garden from above, but the prince of thieves returns shortly… only to fall dead, with small puncture marks at the base of his neck. The young Cimmerian enters the tower in his turn, wary of what might be lurking behind that deadly door. He discovers a treasure-filled room, with chests overflowing with gold and precious stones, all scattered carelessly. Luckily for him, the death of his comrade makes him doubly carewful and so he manages to escape an attack by the keeper of this great hoard: a huge venomous spider that moves as quick as lightning! It's only after a great struggle that the Cimmerian manages to crush the arachnid with a heavy jewel chest. Not finding anything standing out enough to be the famous jewel he seeks, Conan goes down a stairwell and comes upon a room where he learns why this tower is named after an elephant, as he meets a very strange and mysterious creature: the elephant-headed Yag-Kosha, an ancient and wise being from beyond the stars. Here we can compare the same scene from CtB #4 and this issue: I think it clearly shows how the first emphasizes the magical and the mysterious while the second emphasizes realism. (I admit I prefer the first). (Note that this is the first time Conan sees an elephant; in CtB #7, seeing an actual (if stuffed) one, he will briefly mistake it for Yag-Kosha). In the Dark Horse adaptation, Yag-Kosha's head was not exactly an elephant's; it was something alien resembling one, and a very successful design too. The creature is chained to its seat, and has been blinded; its limbs are weak and its spirit has been crushed by centuries of torture. Yag-Kosha feels that Conan is "not of Yara's race of devils; the clean, lean fierceness of the wastelands" marks him. He tells his story to the youth: how, eons ago, he and many of his brethren from the distant planet Yag had warred against their kings and lost; how they had fled to Earth on great, mighty wings, and how upon seeing their wings withering they had be stranded here in our primeval past. Seeing men evolve from apes and build their civilizations, they had died one by one until only Yag-Kosha was left, worshipped as a god in temples of jungle-lost Khitai. He had taught the priests his arcane knowledge in good faith but had been rewarded by betrayal and been enslaved y one of his acolytes, the devilish Yara. Now comes the time for Yag-Kosha's deliverence and revenge. He bids Conan help him preform one last act of magic: the youth is to take the great jewel placed on a gold and ivory altar nearby (the heart of the elephant he had been seeking!), then to strike Yag-Kosha with his sword, remove his actual heart, and empty its blood over the jewel. He must then seek Yara and tell him "Yag-Kosha gives you a last gift and a last enchantment", and leave the tower at once. The Cimmerian, touched by the plight of the hapless creature, does as he's told. To his surprise, the jewel seems to absorb the blood as if it were a sponge. Leaving the room and the body of the alien being, Conan reaches Yara's door and finds the wizard in a lotus-induced trance. He bids him awaken, and despite the man's curses and anger delivers his message and puts the jewl on a table. Yara immediately seems to forget the Cimmerian's presence and is drawn by the pulsating light of the heart of the elephant; startingly, Conan realizes that the man's form has begun shrinking. Yara becomes smaller and smaller, and seems to be drawn to the jewel's surface as if by a strange gravity; he eventually is sucked inside it. Conan then sees inside the jewel's depths the shape of Yara, and that of a winged, no longer crippled Yag-Kosha ready to exact his revenge. In this particular case, I think the Dark Horse version (with art by Cary Nord) really gives a sense of Yag-Kosha's cosmic anger, verging on madness: as compared to this issues merely descriptive scene.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 17, 2014 10:05:49 GMT -5
Obeying Yag-Kosha's instructions, Conan runs down the stairs of the tower to escape, noticing that the numerous guards are all unmoving: apparently, they have all been killed by the alien being's final spell. As he leaves, the tower of the elephant collapses behind him. No sound effect is added either in CtB #4 or here, but the Smith version really suggests a tinkling kind of destrcution, as if a stained glass window collapsed, while the Buscema-Alcala tower seems to crack like a rocky avalanche. Again, magic and realism being respectively emphasized. Notes: - As stated by Howard, Conan is 17 in this story. He's a newly-arrived thief in Zamora, to where he got by way of Hyberborea to the north.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 17, 2014 10:20:04 GMT -5
Swackles, thuds and blundersAn article by Don and Maggie Thomspon. Amra was a fan magazine devoted to sword and sorcery, and especially to Robert E. Howard and his creations. In this article, we are treated to a review of its history ( Amra had first been produced in 1956 as a single sheet mimeographed magazine). Many famous authors contributed to it at different times, including several writers of Conan pastiches. I never saw an issue of Amra, but reading this article certainly gives it a lot of credibility: contributors included Leigh Brackett, E. Hoffman Price, L. Sprague deCamp, Lin Carter, Fritz Leiber, Poul Anderson and more; Dan Adkins functionned as art editor for years; "it is doubtful that any publication has presented more illustrations by Roy G. Krenkel". Many articles from Amra would be reprinted in books with titles like The Conan reader, the Conan grimoire and The Conan swordbook. Sixty-seven issues of the second volume of Amra had been published when the article saw print. The mag's title is naturally derived from Conan's nickname on the Black Coast (it means "lion"). It seems to have been a pretty darn good publication for Conan fans in the pre-internet days.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 17, 2014 10:29:14 GMT -5
Fionn McCumhal day in East-Mere or how Conan might spend a Sunday in Buffalo, New York.Article by Michael C. Mahaney. People dress up in medieval garb (or what feels like medieval garb) and have fun in the state of New York. I would have loved to join them back then, even if I've grown a little too old for it now. CimmeriaScript by Roy Thomas Art by Barry Smith and Tim Conrad Adapting the peom by Robert E. Howard. This poem had been adapted in Savage Tales #2, in an unikned version drawn by Smith. Here it is seen inked by Tim Conrad, who had done such a cool job over Smith's pencils on Worms of the Earth, in SSoC #16. It can also now be seen as inked by Barry himself. Although Conan is suitably introduced in this graphic interpretation, this poem actually predates the creation of Conan in "The phoenix on the sword", which Howard re-wrote from the rejected Kull story "By this axe I rule". It is truly a beautiful piece of art. It's moody, it's dynamic, it really shows how good comics could be in the 1970s, even with crappy printing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 13:10:50 GMT -5
The Buscema adaptation of Tower from SSOC was recently reprinted in color in the Dark Horse quarterly Robert E. Howard's Savage Sword. It was the first time I had read that adaptation. Thwtguardian and I discussed it a bit in the Classic Comics reading club thread... Tower discussion in Classic Comics Reading Club thread
-M
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