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Post by MDG on Jul 3, 2014 10:43:21 GMT -5
You have to wonder--I know I did while i was reading ACW--whether the writers and editors ever thought about how to make stories work in this kind of serial format. They never seemed to get the hang of it. Superman, especially, was essentially a sunday-comic format, but the story they chose didn't really lend itself to that--too many Big Ideas and not enough forward narrative.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 3, 2014 11:10:59 GMT -5
You have to wonder--I know I did while i was reading ACW--whether the writers and editors ever thought about how to make stories work in this kind of serial format. They never seemed to get the hang of it. Superman, especially, was essentially a sunday-comic format, but the story they chose didn't really lend itself to that--too many Big Ideas and not enough forward narrative. Well you can see a uniform pattern across each of the features -- provide a recap, an immediate conflict for this chapter, and a cliffhanger. The problem is mostly that the stories, themselves, aren't very interesting. Superman lacks the correct pacing, and Black Canary does a terrible job with its recaps, but generally the problem with each feature lies more in the stories themselves than the format. At least that's my take.
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Post by shaxper on Jul 3, 2014 11:37:38 GMT -5
Superman #27 "Of Course, You Know, This Means War!" writer: Roger Stern pencils: Kerry Gammill inks: Brett Breeding letters: John Costanza colors: Glenn Whitmore asst. editor: Renee Witterstaeter editor: Mike Carlin grade: B Check out that cover. You just don't see zip lines and impact bursts on comic covers anymore. Somehow, Gammill lends dignity to these old cliches. So, even though this issue is an Invasion tie-in (Aftermath), the title has nothing to do with that. Instead, it's about the big confrontation between The Guardian and Gangbuster. Really though, if you've already figured out who Gangbuster is (and how couldn't you) this issue just drags along the inevitable. Still, Gammill's art is breathtaking, Stern's characterization of Clark battling depression is brutally realistic, and so somehow the story remains compelling, even as nothing really changes. Important Details: - Dupersuper and I were just discussing the matter of how long Superman has been active. Man of Steel #6 and other issues have Superman only active for around three to four years at this point, but along with the big push last month for Superman titles to start emphasizing how well loved the Big S is, and how far his reputation extends, this issue includes a random Australian soldier commenting that he's "been readin' 'bout that bloke for years." Now "years" could certainly mean three or four years, but it seems to imply a lot more than that. Could be that Carlin and the boys are changing how long Superman has been around in order to get back to familiar upstanding hero territory rather than spend a few more years having Superman first have to prove himself to everyone. - Superman's mind is super-strong, even in a vulnerable state, causing Brainiac to go into shock when trying to probe his mind. Is this a standard Superman ability, or is it a symptom of the mental ordeal he is going through? After all, Brainiac has attempted to probe his mind before in Superman #25. - The closest thing to an acknowledgment of Byrne having left unexpectedly occurs in this issue's letter column, in response to a letter praising Stern picking up where Byrne left off, where Witterstaeter writes: "All of your votes of confidence helped see us through a rough time, folks. Thanks!" Minor Details: - Alice, the Daily Planet gofer appears again. I don't know why I'm so attached to following this character, but it seems odd how much attention she's repeatedly gotten when no other personnel at the Planet appear more than once beyond the core cast of Perry, Lois, and Jimmy. Without going back to check, I'd wager this is Alice's sixth or seventh cameo. Looking ahead, I see Alice actually has a real story coming up. I just may have to do an article afterward, tracking her many appearances and speculating on why she's been featured so prominently. I still suspect she's a nod to someone working at the DC Offices. plot synopsis in one sentence: Four pages are spent on Superman recapping the events of Invasion just so that DC can call it an Invasion tie-in, Everyone notices Superman doesn't seem quite right, he reflects on the events of Superman #22, returns to the Planet as Clark Kent after missing for an undetermined amount of time (not clear how long it's been since the Thanagarians attacked Metropolis last issue), everyone notices that Clark doesn't seem quite right, he goes home to fall asleep, and (coincidentally enough) Gangbuster appears, breaking into Lexcorp to rough Luthor up, gets stopped by The Guardian, the two end up fighting and, in the process, the Guardian rips open Gangbuster's shirt and sees something shocking (could it be a giant "S"?). Again, we're not quite at the triangle era yet, so the engines are just beginning to rev, but the writing and art are very strong, even if we're not anywhere all that interesting just yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 13:29:52 GMT -5
There's apiece in Comic Book Legends Revealed this week examining the question as to whether Ordway and Stern purposefully distanced themselves from Byrne's ideas on Superman when Byrne left-something Shax has been exploring as he's done these issues.... Comic Book Legends Revealed-M
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Post by Action Ace on Jul 4, 2014 15:01:04 GMT -5
When I collected the back issues of this era I was confused by the Invasion! logos. One month it's First Strike Extra, the next month it was Aftermath Extra. I was thinking there had to be an issue in the middle somewhere, but that wasn't the case. You just had to read the Invasion issue and the whole war was right there. SLIGHTLY different process in this day and age.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 5, 2014 0:55:15 GMT -5
When I collected the back issues of this era I was confused by the Invasion! logos. One month it's First Strike Extra, the next month it was Aftermath Extra. I was thinking there had to be an issue in the middle somewhere, but that wasn't the case. You just had to read the Invasion issue and the whole war was right there. SLIGHTLY different process in this day and age. Fortunately, the recaps in the pages of Superman also made it unnecessary to read those Invasion issues
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Post by shaxper on Jul 5, 2014 0:56:27 GMT -5
There's apiece in Comic Book Legends Revealed this week examining the question as to whether Ordway and Stern purposefully distanced themselves from Byrne's ideas on Superman when Byrne left-something Shax has been exploring as he's done these issues.... Comic Book Legends Revealed-M This is amazing timing. It's 1:45am though, so I'll have to hold off on reading it. Going to be a busy weekend, but I'll read it and respond by Sunday night. Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention!
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Post by zaku on Jul 5, 2014 9:27:17 GMT -5
It has been stated several times in the DCU by this point that Superman was the first modern public super hero and Batman, the JL, et al came after. It'll be mentioned many times again before Flashpoint ends this version of the DCU. I believe that the first mention of "Superman, first superhero of modern era" was in "History of DC universe", published in 1986.
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Post by shaxper on Jul 5, 2014 10:17:55 GMT -5
It has been stated several times in the DCU by this point that Superman was the first modern public super hero and Batman, the JL, et al came after. It'll be mentioned many times again before Flashpoint ends this version of the DCU. I believe that the first mention of "Superman, first superhero of modern era" was in "History of DC universe", published in 1986. Within the comics themselves, Action Comics #597 established this as well, suggesting Superman was the first superhero since World War II. The biggest problem with this statement remains the issue of Batman. It was established in Man of Steel and elsewhere that, by the time of Superman #1, it had been ten years since Clark left Smallville, and that he'd spent seven of those years saving people anonymously before becoming Superman. Meanwhile, Denny O'Neil's Batman continuity established several times (The Cult is the example that comes to mind immediately) that Batman has been operating in Gotham for 10 years by 1988. Later, with Year 3 and A Lonely Place of Dying, the timeline was revised to have Batman operating for 15 years by 1989. I suspect what happened was that O'Neil heard it had been 10 years since Clark left Smallville and then just ran with that number. I argue in the Batman review thread (soon to be restored here) why the timeline was later extended to 15 years, but that's irrelevant to this conversation. Essentially, I'll wager Superman was supposed to be first, but Denny O'Neil screwed up continuity once again.
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Post by shaxper on Jul 5, 2014 11:16:39 GMT -5
There's apiece in Comic Book Legends Revealed this week examining the question as to whether Ordway and Stern purposefully distanced themselves from Byrne's ideas on Superman when Byrne left-something Shax has been exploring as he's done these issues.... Comic Book Legends Revealed-M Had the time to read this today. Essentially, what Cronin argues came off as obvious to me and not a matter of debate. It was clear Byrne intended Superman to be disrupted by what he did in Superman #22. Instead, where I see Ordway and Stern moving in a different direction is in looking at what the default Superman is when he is not disrupted. Byrne's Superman was an ordinary farm boy with fantastic powers, whereas Stern and Ordway paint a far more noble character with immense willpower and a strong sense of what he stands for.
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Post by shaxper on Jul 6, 2014 5:38:29 GMT -5
Action Comics #625 Two interesting tidbits in the letter column this week. First off, Black Canary comes in dead last in the fan rankings for the third week in a row -- an unprecedented trend of awfulness. Second, we get a pretty interesting explanation as to why the Superman feature is, and will remain, only two pages long: "If only it were that simple to get more Superman into ACW. It's not just a case of making more room for Man O' Steel, we'd love to be running more. The team of creators is committed to following through on the "Sunday Page" format for the strip, and are currently unable to produce much more material on the weekly schedule, anyway. While Superman has received low grades in our voting, the voters always express their regret in doing so."If Stern couldn't handle writing more each month, I'm sure he wouldn't object to turning the reigns over to someone else -- he's got the main Superman title at this point. Instead, this brings me back to my theory early on that Curt Swan, 68 years old by this point, couldn't produce more than two pages a week. You're not going to fire Curt Swan, the most legendary penciler ever to touch Superman, from a Superman feature, right? So I'm assuming that's why they're stuck with the two page format. Still, Stern really needs more guidance with pacing a feature of such limited size. Green Lantern struggles with pacing as well in this issue. The problem James Owsley (Christopher Priest) had been setting up for the last few chapters gets resolved out of the blue -- we just skip the climax and jump to the falling action, only to get a twist and a new conflict come out of it all. Bad pacing all around, but we can forgive the guy after the abrupt change of direction thrust upon him only one chapter into his run (see my review of Action Comics #623). Shazam! similarly struggles with pacing this time around, as we're told at the end of the chapter that the climax is coming next issue, and there's been no sense of rising tensions or Billy Batson coming closer to attaining any kind of goal as of yet. In fact, we only defined his objective for the plotline in this very issue -- stop the Neo Nazis from executing an attack on San Francisco. As I've said all along, Batson's character is very well done in this feature, but the story is pretty generic/uninteresting. Secret Six is the one feature that really has its pacing down this week. Things are moving along nicely while seamlessly reminding us of what's already transpired, and mysteries/cliffhangers are dangled without feeling too forcibly imposed. I did get a little confused as to who was who on the last two pages; I think failing to adequately develop a cast of six main characters and several key supporting cast in an 8 page feature has been a struggle for writer Martin Pasko all along, but he made great strides in developing one of those characters just last week, so I have to give him credit for improving. Deadman just won't die. The art remains strong (especially Tony De Zuniga's inks over Kelley Jones' pencils), but there's that awkward walk Mike Baron takes between deadly serious (pun intended) and absurdist humor, and that inevitably disrupts the plot time and again, as the absurd can always be employed as a deus et machina to move a plot along in ways that make no sense. This time around, the story should have been resolved, but Deadman gets tickled. And really, you can't promise an army of zombies and then NOT have them attack. That's really the only potential this storyline has going for it, so Baron had better find a way to deliver on it by the next chapter. Black Canary: I feel like I repeat myself each chapter. Beautiful art, but Sharon Wright really delights in trying to make us labor over following each minute detail of each thread she's weaving poorly to the point that the effort required absolutely isn't worth it for so subpar of a story. Worse yet, it comes off as egotistic. This issue, however, managed to fail even worse than the others in that the big climax of last chapter, Dinah somehow accidentally kicking through a floor and falling into the water while training, gets most of the attention this chapter and goes absolutely nowhere. She's in the water, then she gets out, and she finds it relaxing. I'm sorry, what? That was interesting? How about at least providing some narrative to go with it that makes this moment symbolic or indicative of some more substantial internal conflict or transformation? It does none of that. This feature is truly and utterly terrible. And then there was Superman... "Out of the Frying Pan..." writer: Roger Stern pencils: Curt Swan inks: Murphy Anderson letters: Bill Oakley colors: Tom Ziuko editor: Mike Carlin grade: D+ It occurs to me at this point that, if Superman just picked up Bob the Zealot, flew him directly to his compound, and then told his religious order that he's not a god, this story would be over already. Of course, Roger Stern is doing everything possible NOT to get to the end of the story, so instead Superman feels strongly that he needs to do this as Clark Kent (even though that clearly isn't having any impact upon dispelling Bob's beliefs), thus dragging the story along tediously. Even with a renewed commitment to moving the plot along after weeks and weeks of wasting time with arbitrarily imposed new cliffhangers, things are moving at a crawl. Last week's tedious developments are best captured in Stern's own recap at the top: "Last week: En route to California to find the Elders of the Fellowship, Clark Kent and Bob Gakt evaded agents of the mysterious Consortium by boarding a courier plane..."That's pretty much the most interesting this feature has been in at least a month, and I find that terribly sad. This week, we're getting through another airport where Stern, apparently finding Bob far more humorous than we are, has him stop to attempt to convert a car rental agent, and then we learn she's working for the Consortium and planted a bug on their rental. Yeah, that's all that happened this week -- and it's STILL more action and plot development than we were getting even two weeks back. If it weren't for Curt Swan and Tom Ziuko on pencils and colors, this feature would be utterly intolerable by this point. share this review on facebook!
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Post by zaku on Jul 6, 2014 7:30:33 GMT -5
Essentially, I'll wager Superman was supposed to be first, but Denny O'Neil screwed up continuity once again. Yep, it's quite a mess. The problem is Batman did not get the hard reboot that Superman and Wonder Woman received. That's the timeline published at the end of Zero Hour. img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090223172703/marvel_dc/images/3/3f/Zero_Hour_Timeline.jpgA reference point can be the "Legends" crossover (Batman 401 & Superman 3) that took place 6 years after the debut of both heroes (Wonder Woman comes to Man's World).
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 6, 2014 7:40:48 GMT -5
Essentially, I'll wager Superman was supposed to be first, but Denny O'Neil screwed up continuity once again. Yep, it's quite a mess. The problem is Batman did not get the hard reboot that Superman and Wonder Woman received. That's the timeline published at the end of Zero Hour. img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090223172703/marvel_dc/images/3/3f/Zero_Hour_Timeline.jpgA reference point can be the "Legends" crossover (Batman 401 & Superman 3) that took place 6 years after the debut of both heroes (Wonder Woman comes to Man's World). Of course, Zero Hour, in and of itself, was a soft reboot of the Post Crisis Continuity. I'm still in the process of restoring my Batman reviews thread, but here's the Post-Crisis continuity I'd pieced together in that thread from all of the continuity references made under Denny O'Neil's watch (or lack thereof). You'll notice that, by my figuring, the Legends storyline would have had to occur in Batman's Year 9 or 10. By the way, I want to thank you for your awesome contributions to this thread!
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Post by zaku on Jul 6, 2014 8:32:12 GMT -5
I'm still in the process of restoring my Batman reviews thread, but here's the Post-Crisis continuity I'd pieced together in that thread from all of the continuity references made under Denny O'Neil's watch (or lack thereof). You'll notice that, by my figuring, the Legends storyline would have had to occur in Batman's Year 9 or 10. Ok, I'm seriously impressed! You did an incredible work!
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Post by shaxper on Jul 6, 2014 8:33:47 GMT -5
Thanks!
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