shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 29, 2016 8:11:14 GMT -5
Action Comics #649's statement of ownership:Average no. copies each issue during the preceding 12 months: 79,215 (note: this includes Action Comics Weekly; thus the low number) Actual no. copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: 216,875 Action Comics #587's statement of ownership (height of Byrne's run):Average no. copies each issue during the preceding 12 months: 187,509 Actual no. copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: 99,554 Wow--weren't numbers like this unheard of within 5 years? Within one for DC. But newsstand distribution was still healthy at this point.
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Post by Chris on Jul 29, 2016 19:59:40 GMT -5
I liked Ordway's painted covers. They were a mix somewhere between comics and full painted art, and worked well somehow.
Or old ones. I wanted to read about Superman and his amazing adventures, not soap opera.
One of the things that kept me buying the Superman books at the time (when I could afford an issue, that is) was Ordway's criminally underrated art (agreed about the occasional strange face, though). Goodness knows it wasn't for the endless Marvel-style soap operas.
It seems like DC, or at least Mike Carlin, managed to recreate 80's Marvel at DC in the early 90s, even bringing in some of the same people. It didn't set the comics world on fire, however. Partly because they were "fighting the last war" (DC was trying to copy Marvel's 80's style, and the comics audience had changed a lot between 1983 and 1990) and partly because Superman was just not designed to work as a Marvel-style character.
They could make a killing with shows at the casinos. Then again, in a world where the Justice League might fly over your house at any time and aliens invaded every other year, maybe the elders wouldn't exactly be a big-ticket draw.
Lois looks pretty run down in those panels, except for the one where she's smiling. That one was cute.
It wasn't a bad book for 75 cents, but mainly I just studied the art and ignored the story.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 29, 2016 20:41:21 GMT -5
One of these days, I'm going to go back and re-read the six hundred X-Men and X-men related comics in my collection that I generally haven't touched since I was 22. I'm very much afraid I won't enjoy them as much as I did back when I knew less. I'm sure Maggot and Marrow are just as awesome now as they were then. Quite sure of it. Actually, Marrow is even Kewler now.. she was in one of the really bad X-Force books not to long ago.
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Post by Chris on Sept 17, 2016 22:43:41 GMT -5
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 18, 2016 8:55:31 GMT -5
I'll have to take a look at these once life gets a little less crazy. Thanks much!
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Post by chadwilliam on Sept 18, 2016 22:20:11 GMT -5
I just picked up the DVD set containing all 13 episodes of the Ruby-Spears Superman cartoon from 1988 and thought I'd share a few details here seeing as how, well, you'll see.
I watched this series when it first aired but other than an episode in which Luthor becomes a Shadow Thief and the fact that most (if not all) episodes ended with a short 'Story from Superman's Childhood' segment focusing on his time in Smallville, I remember very little other than the fact that I enjoyed it. 28 years later however, the thought occurred to me that even though the show coincided with Superman's 50th anniversary, 48 of those years might have been off-limits due to the changes Crisis and John Byrne brought to the comic. Could characters who hadn't yet appeared post-Crisis be allowed to make an appearance? "Hey, you know what would be great? How about we use Brainiac in that cool looking skull ship of his?" "uh, he doesn't exist anymore but how about a fat guy in an ill fitting tux whose wife has driven him to drink?"
So while I've only watched the first episode since getting the set today, it's clear that the writers have more freedom than I thought they might be allowed. Interestingly enough, the writer who put my concern that this series might be a little too promotey towards the Post-Crisis status quo, was none other than one of the architects of the Post-Crisis Superman - Marv Wolfman.
Wolfman was the one who suggested to John Byrne that following the Crisis, Lex Luthor should be a criminal businessman. Actually, according to Byrne, his exact wording was:
"Outside Metropolis is a mountain. On that mountain, in his fabulous Xanadu-like estate, lives Lex Luthor, the world's richest man, and his mistress, Lois Lane. You see, she's drawn to power."
OK, so the Lois Lane stuff was never used, but that Xanadu-like estate, actually makes an appearance in this series. It's shown briefly, but it's all there - a mountain outside of Metropolis on top of which is Luthor's home, so although it didn't make its way into the comic, Wolfman's idea of Luthor's "Xanadu-like estate" made it onto the show. I don't know if LexCorp will make an appearance or if it will look anything at all like it did in the comics.
Now, the show is clearly aimed at children - Luthor is busy sipping a milkshake when Superman stops by to drop one of his tanks into his swimming pool - but I can't help but wonder how much of his portrayal here (and everybody else's for that matter) is due to who the intended audience was and how much was "Hey, I don't have to run my ideas through John Byrne's sieve here, so I'm going to do what I would have done had I been allowed to revamp Superman".
Wolfman once stated that he wanted to make Luthor a rich businessman because he wanted to explain how he could afford to build all these expensive machines he'd use to rob banks with. I don't know how Wolfman expected Luthor to balance that thin line between being a notorious bank robber and a legitimate businessman/philanthropist Post-Crisis, but that's what he said.
So what does Luthor do in this episode? He donates a bunch of robots to Metropolis to aid in catching criminals, rescuing people from fires, etc - essentially anything to make Superman look obsolete. His plan works well enough that Superman seems to retire until we learn what exactly Luthor hopes to gain from Superman's absence - he wants to steal a trainfull of gold that's been earmarked for Fort Knox. He's asked point blank in the episode "why do you want to steal more money when you're already rich" and Luthor responds that you can never have enough money. Luthor's stopped, but not arrested as he's able to cover his tracks by claiming that his machines malfunctioned and if Superman checks with the Mayor, he'll learn that Luthor had already called him to explain that his robots were running amuck due to faulty wiring.
Yeah, yeah - acceptable logic for a cartoon aimed at kids, but it likely wouldn't have worked for the comics at the time. However, it's interesting to me that Wolfman addressed that whole "what do you need more money for" issue as if this were an interpretation of the character he believed strongly enough in to defend. I can't help but wonder if this is what Wolfman's Luthor would have looked like sans Byrne - Businessman, yes, but still a scientific genuis who robs banks as he did pre-Crisis but with a team of lawyers (or with the Mayor on constant speed dial for those "Yes, my machines were robbing that bank when Superman arrived, but I was also leaving a message on the Mayor's answering machine with my alibi while that was going on so it's all good" phone calls) to bail him out whenever he needs them.
Other than Luthor, I can't think of anything else about this one episode that didn't work with pre-Crisis continuity. There are a few updates - Jimmy Olsen rides a skateboard through the Daily Planet offices and doesn't wear a bowtie - but it has mild-mannered Clark Kent, a Superman who was dropped off at a local orphanage when he was discovered and not claimed as the Kents' biological child, and a Superman who had his powers as a baby. Oh, and judging from the opening credits, Titano should be making an appearance.
Not sure how the timing works with Wolfman's departure from the comics and arrival on the cartoon - he's credited with a hand in writing three of the 13 episodes for this series. When did he leave the Superman titles - end of 1987? The first episode of this show aired in Sept 1988. Would that have meant he left the comics to help with the cartoon (admittedly in a limited capacity) or is it more likely he wrote this episode (and two others) back in 1987/early 1988 and then left both the comics and cartoon while the latter was being animated/voiced/etc?
Anyhow, that's some of the stuff that was going through my head after watching this episode and thought it relevant here (though not necessarily timely).
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Post by coinilius on Sept 19, 2016 4:10:59 GMT -5
Interesting comments on the Ruby Spears Suerman cartoon - I have only ever seen little snippets on YouTube (it has a theme which is based on the John Williams score). It sounds like a good series to check out one of these days.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 19, 2016 4:55:23 GMT -5
I loved the series as a kid but have few memories of it. Didn't realize how carefully aligned with the Post-Crisis it was.
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parker
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Post by parker on Sept 19, 2016 10:37:15 GMT -5
Ruby Spears Superman is odd to me. It is pre-crisis Superman with a post-crisis paint job. Giving Clark Kent powers as a child validates the whole Byrne concept heavily.
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Post by dupersuper on Sept 19, 2016 22:07:19 GMT -5
I have the Ruby Spears cartoon as well. I like the show, but the voice actor playing Luthor makes my ears hurt.
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 20, 2016 9:44:33 GMT -5
NO X-MEN COMICS EVER!!!!! One of these days, I'm going to go back and re-read the six hundred X-Men and X-men related comics in my collection that I generally haven't touched since I was 22. I'm very much afraid I won't enjoy them as much as I did back when I knew less. Between back issues and reprints, I have X-Men #1-300. A few years ago, I decided to re-read them all for the first time in decades. I stopped after #204, because they had simply become so un-enjoyable, I decided I could make better use of my time. I especially felt that it was lousy starting from #184, though #200 was pretty good.
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 20, 2016 9:44:57 GMT -5
One of these days, I'm going to go back and re-read the six hundred X-Men and X-men related comics in my collection that I generally haven't touched since I was 22. I'm very much afraid I won't enjoy them as much as I did back when I knew less. I'm sure Maggot and Marrow are just as awesome now as they were then. Quite sure of it. Don't forget about Strong Guy!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2016 10:21:19 GMT -5
The Ruby Spears Superman Cartoon back in 1988
Came on 10 years after I graduated from High School and I just watched a couple of these cartoons on You Tube and I was very sad that I did not get a chance to watch them back then and I thought it was done tastefully, heroic, and done just right. I was deeply sadden that this series made only 13 cartoon shows and I was wondering why they did not made more of these great cartoons and why it's cut off so short and all that.
It has a great introduction and made Superman a character that he really is and I like the way they made it historical and somewhat Fleischer-Oriented of which I sense that in the cartoons that I just saw the last two days.
Great Score by John Williams and it's really set the tone and even has some of the George Reeve short takes as well and I was so move by the Retro aspects of it.
Why, this series did not do so well ... it's puzzles me greatly.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 27, 2016 20:06:47 GMT -5
Action Comics #655 "Survival!" writer: Roger Stern pencils: Bob McLeod inks: Brett Breeding letters: Bill Oakley colors: Glenn Whitmore assoc. editor: Jon Peterson editor: Mike Carlin grade: B In the month following Dark Knight Over Metropolis, the Superman Office was clearly recalibrating before heading into its next major storylines with a month of filler issues. Understanding that, my expectations for this issue were not particularly high, but I ended up loving what Stern did with it all the same. Whereas the Superman Office, at this point, tends to favor juggling multiple storylines in a single issue so that no one plot or idea gets full attention, Stern is unusually fixated in a single idea that permeates nearly every page of this issue: Lois Lane is a bad ass. I mean, we sort of knew this already. While Byrne was still overly fond of having Clark one-up and occasionally torment Lois, the implicit message was still that the Post-Crisis Lois was more determined and capable than her Pre-Crisis counterpart, but we've never quite seen her like this before: and Stern repeatedly makes it clear that Lois doesn't need any saving: Furthermore, though it had been implied to some extent before, Stern drives home the degree to which Lois's emotionally abusive relationship with her overly demanding military father makes her as tough and resilient as she is: While Stern never overtly makes this a gender issue, it's certainly there -- Lois is determined to prove she is more capable than any man precisely because of how her father dogged her for being a girl. Powerful stuff that makes me just a little bit afraid of getting in this fictional character's way. And, after all, making these characters feel real is so much of the charm of this Superman office. But that fear of Lois' inner strength is what makes the ending so powerful: On the one hand, Clark is giving her the respect and understanding she never had growing up and, on the other, it's also made clear that she is second to no one in this relationship. Clark expects nothing from her and is understanding about their missed date. No one puts baby in a corner. Minor Details: Stern gives some emphasis to Superman's less often-utilized powers in this story, including: - Super Speed. We knew Supes could run at several times the speed of sound, but we're explicitly told here that this applies to his flying speed as well. - Infrared vision. Superman makes some amazing use of this ability in this story, being able to determine whether or not Lois has been at her desk in the past six hours: and being able to follow the heat signature of a truck that is now long gone: If one of the goals in resetting Superman continuity was to make him less powerful, these details fly in the face of that a bit. All we need now is the return of Super Hypnotism. Plot synopsis: Lois is on the case of military personnel selling weapons to an unknown buyer, causing her to miss her dinner date with Clark and his parents, thus arousing Superman's concern. Lois tails the buyer back to a secret hideout in Habitat (of Kirby's Forever People, and more recently showing up during the whole Project Cadmus affair), and Superman arrives to save the day, only to discover Lois has things well in hand. The Military classifies the Habitat portion of the story but allows Lois to print the rest, and Clark and Lois head out for breakfast as happy new lovers. "Ma Kent's Photo Album" writer: Roger Stern pencils: Kerry Gammill inks: Dennis Janke letters: Bill Oakley colors: Glenn Whitmore associate editor: Jon Peterson editor: Mike Carlin grade: A+ The Superman Office was doing everything possible to put Superman back at the #1 spot and so, even with sales that exceeded those of Byrne's run and, thus, were likely higher than they'd been in two decades, the Superman comics were still selling for only 75 cents (compared to every other DC title selling at $1.00 or more) and, in the wake of the high profile Dark Knight Over Metropolis storyline with Batman, each 75 cent issue also included 8 pages of extra content. This time around, the extra pages are devoted to Ma Kent's infamous scrapbook that played such a key role in the Amanda McCoy storyline. This is a great way to catch up new readers, picking up the Superman titles for the first time in the wake of DKoM, on Post-Crisis Continuity, and Stern doesn't miss a single damn detail, from a small nod to Dan Fordman, to mention of the snow storm created by the Manhunters, to the years Clark spent abroad before arriving in Metropolis, to details mentioned once ever in throw-away storylines, including Ruby Carson as Clark's first love and Lori Lemaris as his second (both facts only mentioned in the highly forgettable Superman #12). But this extra feature also makes two new contributions to Superman continuity: First off, Stern makes it explicitly clear why Superman needed to develop his powers slowly and not be born with them in order to become an effective superhero: And, most importantly, we're given Superman's birth date: Granted, the newspaper article is written from the point of view of someone who believes Clark Kent was Jonathan and Martha's biological son, but remember that, in the Post-Crisis, Superman wasn't "born" until the Kents removed him from his birth matrix, thus effectively making the day they found him the same as the day he was born: Now the actual date is somewhat problematic because Jonathan cites the blizzard as the reason he wasn't sure of the precise date, but it's established (including in the panel above) that they found Clark just prior to the blizzard, so that should then make Superman's birthday a few days earlier. But, then again, I suspect Stern was intending for Superman's birthday to actually be one day later: February 29 -- leap year -- a subtle joke explaining why the character will never age. Of course, if my Post-Crisis Superman Timeline is correct, Superman arrived in 1959, and there was no February 29th that year. Perhaps I'm a few months off, and he arrived on February 29th, 1960, making that his birthday. (note: I just did some online research, and apparently Action Comics #149 confirms the February 29 birthday in the Pre-Crisis, so we can safely assume the Post-Crisis Superman arrived on earth on February 29, 1960)
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 4, 2016 0:31:44 GMT -5
World's Finest #1 "Worlds Apart" writer: Dave Gibbons pencils: Steve Rude inks: Karl Kesel colors" Steve Oliff letters: Bill Oakley editor: Mike Carlin assoc. editor: Jonathan Peterson grade: A- The Superman office was truly doing everything it could to make Supes #1 again,and if the Dark Knight Over Metropolis crossover with Batman last month wasn't enough, this prestige edition limited series again teaming Batman with Superman (but controlled by the Superman office) is here to help. My initial assumption of this series, written and penciled by two of the hotter celebrities in comics at this time, was that it would have no relationship to actual Superman continuity and, thus, would get little more than a passing mention in this thread. However, that proved not to be the case. In fact, it would appear that Carlin and Peterson worked relatively closely with Rude to ensure that this story was aligned tightly with current Superman continuity, from obvious details like Luthor's cybernetic hand: to truly fine details, like Perry White and Lex Luthor having grown up together: or what Luthor did to his parents: At the very least, this work reflects a familiarity with Lex Luthor: The Unauthorized Biography. However, we don't get that same alignment with current Batman continuity. It's repeatedly suggested that Bruce lives entirely alone aside from Alfred (no Tim Drake), no reference is made to anything in present Batman continuity, and we even get this severely outdated Batmobile: However, we do get one homage to The Killing Joke: Maybe Gibbons and Rude just grabbed Lex Luthor: The Unauthorized Biography and The Killing Joke, and based their full understanding of Post-Crisis Superman and Batman on those two works. One other place where the book shows close adherence to continuity is with the ever-evolving relationship between Clark and Bruce. Coming out of Dark Knight Over Metropolis, the two know each other's identities and now have a mutual (if uncomfortable) respect for one another. I'll be curious to see is this storyline takes that relationship anywhere new. While it's steeped in current Superman continuity, I have less confidence that it has the ability to affect said continuity. Are Stern, Jergens, and Ordway really going to build continuity off of a prestige format limited series that wasn't made available on spinner racks? Anyway, as much attention as I give to this book's alignment with current continuity, its true charm comes from its sense of timelessness. The plot of an orphanage running a criminal racket with its wards is practically a Golden Age trope and was definitely used in the 1940s Superman newspaper serial. I'm willing to bet it made its way into the comics as well. And, of course, the Joker and Luthor teaming up and switching antagonists comes right out of 1950s World's Finest Comics. This is all very intentionally throwback, even while adding a modern-age style to the telling. This is reflected in Rude's ingenious art, brilliantly embellished by Karl Kesel. I've enjoyed Rude's throwback approach before. He was doing it before Bruce Timm or Darwyn Cooke and, arguably, did it better: But he really changes it up here, employing that retro style at the right moments, offering something that feels more traditional-modern day at other points, and abruptly shifting into a highly sophisticated style when it's time to dig deep on an emotional level: Breath-taking, and a lot of it is clearly the inks that Kesel brings to Rude's foundations. They are a perfect team. The plot? Throwback and forgettable. The characterizations? What you'd expect and nothing more. There's nothing about Gibbons' writing that's particularly dazzling at this point, but the overall artistic vision of the thing, whether driven by Rude or the two of them together, that's truly unforgettable. And the alignment with Carlin's continuity is impressive as well. Plot synopsis: An orphanage for youth of both Metropolis and Gotham is being run by a presumed dead criminal who once used the orphans to further a psychological obsession with crime. Meanwhile, Lex Luthor and the Joker have worked out a financial arrangement in which the Joker has one month to play in Metropolis without repercussions from Lex while Lex expands his financial empire into Gotham. Superman and Batman agree to temporarily switch places in order to properly check their antagonists.
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