shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 12, 2023 13:52:12 GMT -5
Superman: The Man of Steel #11 (May 1992) "Mistaken Identity" Script: Louise Simonson Pencils: Jon Bogdanove Inks: Dennis Janke Colors: Glenn Whitmore Letters: Bill Oakley Grade: A- After over a year of disruption, the Superman Office finally feels back on track, weaving dense continuity across titles and delivering an installment here that is entertaining and rich in character and ideals. Simonson finally seems on-pace with the rest of this office, possibly even exceeding her colleagues' abilities to present upstanding, loveable characters that we can't help but cheer for, from a thoughtful Superman who explicitly examines every side of a situation before engaging (unlike the earlier punch-first-ask-questions-later characterization that Byrne so often gave back in the day): to a Bibbo Bibowski who gets more adorable every time we see him: Even Husque, once a throw-away antagonist I'd all but forgotten, is downright loveable in his selfless heroics and honesty here: New D-list villains Arnie and Freddy also end up pretty darn likeable (even though they are unmistakably arsonists): and you can't help but smirk at the wholesomeness of Weezie sneaking a fire safety tip for the kiddos into this one: (though I'd argue that might be dangerously misleading: the greatest danger in a fire is usually smoke inhalation, not burning to death). Not only has Simonson come a long way, but so has Bogdanove, an artist I only recently couldn't stand. He still has some awkward moments, like what was he thinking when he arranged this panel and gave a totally unimportant character's unreadable facial reaction the primary focus? but even when he draws Superman and gets the proportions wrong, it looks so much better than it used to. Here: Previously: He also continues to throw us a Fleischer Brothers-inspired panel here and there: and whereas his attempts at visual humor had previously come off a bit awkward in the past, his "funny" panels are mostly outstanding here and really enhance the charm of the story: I don't know whether it's Janke helping him out or just the gaining of experience, but somewhere during Panic in the Sky, Bogdanove began shifting from being a serious liability in each story he worked on to (as of this issue) becoming it's strongest asset. I truly would not have enjoyed this story half as much without him. As for the plot, not all that much transpires. However, it is a true testament to this franchise that you never know who will be important down the road and who will not. Who would have expected, when I mentioned the introduction of the minor character "Flashpoint" two issues back (and, really, I only mentioned him because of the irony of the name in a major DC event), that he would become a central character only a short time later as he is accidentally transported to Earth in place of Prof. Hamilton: Still, as fun as the unlikely team-up of an inter-dimensional good-natured demon and two small-time arsonists proves to be, it doesn't really make any sense. Arnie chooses to gain Flashpoint's trust because he believes that Flashpoint burning down buildings for them will keep anyone from ever connecting the crimes back to them, but then they walk him through the streets to each job--an enormous, bright, burning creature on a dark, seedy street--assuming that no one will notice: Even putting that aside, what happens if Flashpoint learns English and can then tell someone that Arnie and Freddy put him up to these jobs? Or how about the fact that they cannot control Flashpoints' fires nor ensure they are a safe distance away when he strikes? Really, none of this makes any sense. But hey, we've got interconnected storytelling and smooth continuity once again, endearing characters, wholesome ideals (in a mainstream comic in 1992!), and a whole lot of humor as well. I couldn't be much more pleased. Who would have ever thought I'd be feeling this way about a Weezie and Boggie story? Minor Details:1. This was a hilarious inversion: 2. Okay, no way does anyone (especially two arsonists) not know how dangerous asbestos is in 1992: This is not a 1960's Human Torch story. The EPA banned the use of most forms of asbestos in 1989, and there'd been safety concerns as early as 1971 (1). 1 Bezrutczyk, D. (2023, June 9). When was asbestos banned in products? facts and information. Mesothelioma Hub. www.mesotheliomahub.com/blog/when-was-asbestos-banned-in-products/
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 13, 2023 0:46:30 GMT -5
Just caught the Blue Beetle trailer, and I was amazed to see Big Belly Burger make an appearance!
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Post by Chris on Jun 13, 2023 22:44:36 GMT -5
1. Butch Guise's art is really getting to me. He draws with an impressively realistic style, but so many of his poses are downright awkward, like this one in which Lex should be talking to Clark and Lois directly. and why does Clark look annoyed? 2. God these panels made me uncomfortable: Part of the problem is that Guice was swipe-reliant, at least during his time on the Action Comics. That kind of limits how much an artist can pose his characters and make it convincing (look at almost any issue of Firestorm drawn by Joe Brozowski and you'll see what I mean. It's hard to construct a compelling artistic narrative when you are fitting pieces of other artists' work into your pages - artists with wildly different styles and approaches. It becomes a cut-and-paste mess, much like sampling in music). The only Guice art I had seen before he started on Superman was on Flash in the 80's. When I first saw Guice's art on Superman #64, I was quite surprised by the difference in his style. Look at these Flash pages... The anatomy has problems, but they're not the worst to ever see print. But the pages have a strong sense of movement and frenetic energy. Now look at these Superman pages (yes, I ripped them straight from your post, Shaxper) Very low key and almost comatose. After seeing the first couple pages of the Superman story, I thought "What happened to this guy's art?" At first I thought that maybe since he inked himself, that could be why it looked so different. But a couple pages more and I saw that it was much more subdued and slow paced. The anatomy had improved, though. Now, one can argue that the story called for a more slow-going pace, with the camera lingering on people and so on. Fair enough. But look at the panel compositions, character placement, etc. Much clunkier, lacking much grace or fluidity, or sense of panel-to-panel progression. On Flash, his panels were clear, people and objects were usually placed well within the panels, and there was some innovation in the layouts. Ok, some swipes too, but not too many (at least as far as I could tell). Maybe on Superman #64 he just had an off issue? No, because when he later took over drawing Action Comics, he had some good stuff in there, but for the most part his art was mostly pretty lackadaisical and uninspired. Even this page of three people standing still is more dynamic and demanding of the reader's attention than the majority of his Superman work. After a while, I figured it out. Flash writer Mike Baron drew loose sketches to accompany his scripts as a guide for the artists on his books. While the Flash pages by Guice do show some similarities to his later work on the Superman books, for the most part the Flash art is much more exciting and kinetic. Seeing Guice on other books later (such as the DC/Marvel crossover a few years later, I think it was called "All Access") just confirmed how lackluster Guice was on his own, without Baron's sketches as a starting point. It's also possible that the inkers on Flash helped Guice's art, too. Props to Larry Mahlstedt. Baron's layouts could also explain the difference in posing, which you called "downright awkward" and "uncomfortable" in the examples your posted. Mike Baron has a second degree black belt in karate. I don't know how physically active Guice was during this time, but Baron clearly had a stronger understanding of how the human body works than Guice, and it shows in the art. And did I mention swipes? Look at these panels from Superman #64... Pretty much straight-up swipes of Joe Kubert out of nowhere. And he can't say he just drew a couple of faces and the inker imposed a Kubert-like style on them, because Guice inked them himself. That kind of sudden art shift just yanks me out of a story. When he worked on Action Comics, the issues contained quite a number of swipes. Not as bad as the above mentioned Firestorm book, but still pretty often. And as to the other part of your first comment, "Lex should be talking to Clark and Lois directly," I agree. He should indeed be talking to them directly, but whether this is an artist failure or a problem inherent to the "Marvel method" isn't really clear. It could be that Guice was given a plot that called for Luthor speaking in front of Clark and Lois ("speaking in front of them" not necessarily" speaking TO them"), and he drew it this way, and then when Roger Stern was adding dialogue, this is what he had to work with. Then again, Stern could have provided a full script with clear directions and Guice just failed to deliver what was asked for. I'm just totally guessing here, though. I've never been a fan of the plot-pencil-dialogue method. The artist draws stuff from a basic plot, and the writer has to use dialogue to fill in any missing information or character nuances. Things which may have never even occurred to the artist if he came up with the plot on his own. But regardless of who originated the plot, if the artist doesn't carry the story correctly through the pictures, then the writer (or sometimes editor) has to jam things into the story any way possible, no matter how stilted or fake it feels. A good writer may be able to make it work, but usually this sort of kludge approach just pulls me right out of the story. This happened to me all the time on the Man of Steel title, much more than on the other three books.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 14, 2023 14:48:46 GMT -5
Chris, fascinating analysis! I had considered the possibility in the Luthor panel that it was the result of a last-minute lettering decision. After all, he was singing for his guests a few panels earlier. Perhaps Oakley (or maybe Stern) felt Guise's pacing needed to be sped up. In regard to the rest of your criticism, yes, swiping explains a lot of what Guice is doing. In particular, his art has taken a turn towards realism as of late, but (as you've noted) this correlates with a move towards less action/more inactive poses. Seems like he might be using photo references.
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Post by Chris on Jun 14, 2023 16:06:26 GMT -5
Chris , fascinating analysis! I had considered the possibility in the Luthor panel that it was the result of a last-minute lettering decision. After all, he was singing for his guests a few panels earlier. Perhaps Oakley (or maybe Stern) felt Guise's pacing needed to be sped up. Or Carlin. And you could be right. Without seeing the rest of the page for context, that panel just looks wrong, but if he had been singing, the panel makes a bit more sense. In regard to the rest of your criticism, yes, swiping explains a lot of what Guice is doing. In particular, his art has taken a turn towards realism as of late, but (as you've noted) this correlates with a move towards less action/more inactive poses. Seems like he might be using photo references. Looks like it. And other comic book panels.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 14, 2023 17:23:13 GMT -5
Superman #67 (May 1992) "Another Panic in the Sky!" Script: Dan Jurgens Pencils: Dan Jurgens (layouts); Brett Breeding (finishes) Inks: Brett Breeding Colors: Glenn Whitmore Letters: John Costanza Grade: B So, in the wake of a major Superman event in which the villain never had a clear goal nor plan, and his threat to Earth was undefined and existential at best, Jurgens is going to give us a done-in-one story in which that same villain's B plan is a clear danger to Earth and seems far more threatening than that other never explained thing he spent eight issues never getting around to doing. Weirder still, while Panic in the Sky took great pains to explain that absolutely nobody died and the damage was minimal, we've got people dying left and right this time around: It was so thoroughly unbelievable that absolutely nobody died and nothing was seriously destroyed during Panic. Why even try to sell us on that if you're just going to start a body count like it's no big deal right afterward? And yet, the rules surrounding the "swarm" keep changing so that it can look dangerous without killing too many folks. So, while one excuse we're given for why pretty much everyone on Earth isn't dying all at once is that the swarm starts up above and then gradually works its way down: that's not at all what Jurgens' art is showing us in other panels: And besides, in the prologue to this issue, with the final remaining family on another planet jumping to their death to avoid the coming swarm, the swarm shows up AND descends fast enough to kill them mid-fall. Of course, we're also told that the swarm eats through buildings: ...except when that is inconvenient to the story: Stupid enough as all that is, let me also beg the question: isn't the swarm sent to destroy planets? So, then, why is it only attacking Metropolis and (at times) only attacking Superman? Oops. I mean, there are more problems too, like since when does Warworld use/need settlers? Building and settling isn't really what they do. Additionally, while previous issues alternated between depicting Warworld's champions as a single race of green invaders: from Action Comics #675or as the best champions from any number of worlds and (mostly green-skinned) races, but all wearing the same uniform: from Superman #66 (also drawn by Jurgens)they're a rag-tag band of aliens wearing completely different war gear from one another here. Come on, Jurgens. You can't even be consistent with yourself? Beyond this, Jurgens does his best to return to the human aspect of this franchise with mixed results. I really like the uncomfortable balance this office is achieving with Lex II, who is self-serving and not to be trusted, but also capable of compassion and almost heroic at times, too: Sure, he ultimately uses this moment of heroism as leverage to win the public's trust away from Superman: but it still makes him a more complicated and potentially almost likable villain for Superman than his one-note predessessor who never ever purposefully broke a sweat to accomplish anything. On the other hand, I don't think anyone in this office is ever going to manage to make me care about Lana Lang and Pete Ross's adventures in DC. While the human-aspect of this series is arguably its finest selling point, it doesn't work the same when there are no superheroics and no fight scenes. This sort of day-in-the-life soap opera drama might work with characters we are already invested in, but we have absolutely no reason to care about Lana and Pete, and what they are involved in has absolutely nothing to do with anything happening anywhere else in the Superman franchise, so I think this subplot is doomed to fail unless Pete ends up single-handedly taking down political assassins or something. Finally though, I absolutely adore this little Clark moment enough to forgive this issue the rest of its flaws. Clark and Lois are discussing the first films they ever saw, and Clark's answer is both a clever acknowledgement of how different Superman is from Batman AND a fundamental key to better understanding exactly who this non-Byrne Superman is: To Kill A Mockingbird is the ultimate story of compassionate, non-violent heroism in the face of hopeless adversity. Atticus Finch is a personal hero of mine. Somehow, I never made the connection until now just how closely Gregory Peck as Atticus Finch resembles Clark Kent: To be fair, the Adventures of Superman television series long predates this film, so it may have intentionally been channeling Clark Kent (and certainly not the reverse), but darn if the Clark that Jurgens, Breeding, McLeod, Bogdanove, Janke, and Grummett are drawing doesn't look just like a hip-for-the-'90s version of this character. Man, Superman and I have the same hero. This moment made my year. Important Details:1. The Warworld swarm is now following a Lexcorp satellite into the depths of space indefinitely and could foreseeably return. 2. Well, chadwilliam was certainly right. The metal ball that Brainiac launched at Earth at the conclusion of Panic in The Sky is revealed/explained here, and not only was it's intended purpose to be a beacon for the swarm, but it's also definitely too small to be what Doomsday will eventually bust out of: Minor Details:1. What was the point of this cheesecake panel with Lana undressing? It's completely unnecessary to the story. 2. Look, I'm as big a fan of diversity and inclusion as anyone, but how come every time new minor characters are introduced in Suicide Slum lately, it's a black guy and a white guy? This issue: Last issue: Six months ago: 3. And, speaking of race, maybe the same issue where we find out that Atticus Finch and To Kill A Mockingbird strongly shaped Superman's identity is not the time for Superman to choose this nickname for his antagonist: 4. I'm really surprised that Jurgens gives such a big shout-out to Singles (1992), a film that I adored so much as a teenager that I wore out my VHS tape from repeated viewings and had to buy another. It wasn't exactly a major film that general audiences would know/care about, and it doesn't have any relation to Superman nor to comics in general. Did Jurgens perhaps know writer/producer Cameron Crowe? Crowe was writing for Rolling Stone prior to shifting into film, so perhaps a magazine writer and a comic artist crossed paths somewhere? Anyway, while this was a deeply flawed issue (surprising considering how well the other titles are doing at this moment), I give it major credit for making Atticus Finch into Superman's Zorro.
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Post by badwolf on Jun 14, 2023 17:48:49 GMT -5
Superman #67 (May 1992) 1. What was the point of this cheesecake panel with Lana undressing? It's completely unnecessary to the story. No, no, she just noticed she got some ketchup on her shirt. It's the colorist's fault.
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Post by Chris on Jun 14, 2023 23:01:20 GMT -5
Superman #67 (May 1992) So, in the wake of a major Superman event in which the villain never had a clear goal nor plan, and his threat to Earth was undefined and existential at best, Jurgens is going to give us a done-in-one story in which that same villain's B plan is a clear danger to Earth and seems far more threatening than that other never explained thing he spent eight issues never getting around to doing. Weirder still, while Panic in the Sky took great pains to explain that absolutely nobody died and the damage was minimal, we've got people dying left and right this time around Seems like the Superman books would do that a lot in those days. Something would happen in one book, and a week later another book would say contradict it as if it had never happened. Although usually, it seemed to be whenever a book had something, anything, that might be even slightly moving toward the ballpark of edgy, another book would turn right around and soften it up. This case is a rare reversal, I think. Look, I'm as big a fan of diversity and inclusion as anyone, but how come every time new minor characters are introduced in Suicide Slum lately, it's a black guy and a white guy? In one of those panels, they look kind of like Lenny and Carl from The Simpsons. And in another panel, they look liked Lenny and Carl race-swapped. So there's some diversity for you. I'm really surprised that Jurgens gives such a big shout-out to Singles (1992), a film that I adored so much as a teenager that I wore out my VHS tape from repeated viewings and had to buy another. It wasn't exactly a major film that general audiences would know/care about, and it doesn't have any relation to Superman nor to comics in general. Did Jurgens perhaps know writer/producer Cameron Crowe? Crowe was writing for Rolling Stone prior to shifting into film, so perhaps a magazine writer and a comic artist crossed paths somewhere? Could be that Jurgens likes some alternative music. But later he was referencing Van Halen long after Van Halen had gone radio-friendly, so this seems like an isolated case. The books also referenced the Spin Doctors, but I'm pretty sure that only because of their album Pocketful of Kryptonite and its song "Jimmy Olsen's Blues." And when the books later featured punk bands and name-checked the "riot grrrls" trend, it seemed like another case of just trying to latch onto something hip right as it stopped being hip. All of which leads me to think that the "Singles" bit was a product placement. After all, it was a Warner Brothers movie.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 14, 2023 23:57:30 GMT -5
In one of those panels, they look kind of like Lenny and Carl from The Simpsons. And in another panel, they look liked Lenny and Carl race-swapped. So there's some diversity for you. I will never unsee this now.
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Post by Chris on Jun 15, 2023 0:23:11 GMT -5
In one of those panels, they look kind of like Lenny and Carl from The Simpsons. And in another panel, they look liked Lenny and Carl race-swapped. So there's some diversity for you. I will never unsee this now. My work is complete.
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Post by chadwilliam on Jun 15, 2023 20:04:46 GMT -5
Superman #67 (May 1992) "Another Panic in the Sky!" "You have one minute to explain before I take you all apart!" and how could you miss that muscle flex in the previous panel? This is what I don't like about Jurgens' writing - the posturing, the thinking with your fists approach, the tough guy talk. "Well, they won't succeed here! Maybe no decimated planet could stop the swarm, but we're alive and kicking!" Well, yeah, great sentiment and everything, but it's still just "We're gonna win 'cause we're tough! Am I right, fellas? Who's with me? Yeah!" No plan or anything beyond, "Must.. flex... harder... Lives... counting... on it..." "The threat is over and Metropolis is safe. So, why do I feel like I lost?"I don't know, Superman, why do you? Two possible explanations as I can see it: 1. Luthor's getting credit for saving the city and not you. Less likely than the second explanation, but with Superman in a darkened mood contemplating this question in the foreground and a saved city cheering on Luthor in the background, I think this possibility is certainly being planted in the reader's mind, at least. 2. Superman is being hard on himself due to the fact that he was mostly useless in this situation. A death swarm from out of nowhere on a sunny day? Superman's just completed arguably his toughest challenge following Panic in the Sky? The bad guy in a coma? You know what, no reason Superman should have expected anything like this, but at the same time, let's make no mistake that his ideas for stopping this swarm weren't getting any better and he likely wasn't going to be doing much more than relocating people so that they could die in different areas of the city until the swarm got to them. I don't necessarily mind someone else winning the day - and having Luthor II be that someone is a nice touch - but Superman's got to do something more than just flail about. No racing over to Professor Hamilton? No scanning the skies to see if the swarm was led here by some device (as it was)? I would have preferred Luthor II's victory being a result of arriving at the same conclusion Superman was heading towards, but just getting there faster rather than him. Seeing Luthor II's men retrieve that ball while Superman's all "Blast it! If brushing my teeth counterclockwise at superspeed while humming the Superman theme song at the top of my lungs doesn't stop this thing, what else can I do?" is hardly inspiring.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 15, 2023 22:19:17 GMT -5
This is what I don't like about Jurgens' writing - the posturing, the thinking with your fists approach, the tough guy talk. "Well, they won't succeed here! Maybe no decimated planet could stop the swarm, but we're alive and kicking!" Well, yeah, great sentiment and everything, but it's still just "We're gonna win 'cause we're tough! Am I right, fellas? Who's with me? Yeah!" No plan or anything beyond, "Must.. flex... harder... Lives... counting... on it..." I think your being a little hard on Jurgens on this one. The tough talk seems appropriate when he's been caught totally by surprise by alien invaders that, for all he knows, are behind this unexpected final attack on Earth that sort of looks like it's going to win. That's definitely the part I was thinking of when he said that. The swarm never really gave him a chance to collect his thoughts. From the moment he suddenly realized it was a lot more menacing and unstoppable than he initially expected, he spent every moment either dodging it, saving others from it, or in a sewer trying to process what a bunch of renegade warriors from Warworld were doing while also being badly wounded and more than a little spooked. I expect my Superman to be better than the rest of us in temperment and thinking, for sure, but I think he deserves a little leniancy on this one. I will agree that, now that Simonson is stepping it up, Jurgens is beginning to feel like the amateur in the room, but I didn't have a problem with his depiction of Superman. Yeah, that was a weird flex, though.
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Post by lordyam on Jun 18, 2023 21:59:37 GMT -5
Some things from Byrne's run worked well; Luthor as a corporate shark was brilliant.
As for Superman killing.....I think that killing if there really is no option isn't a bad thing. He's used lethal force when he had to even in the Silver age, and the idea that killing in self defense or when there's no other choice is kinda insulting to people who've been put in similar situations but didn't crack.
This isn't to say it should be a matter of course. But in the case of people like Zod, Darkseid, or Brainiac I can see killing be on the table (hell Supes DOES kill Darkseid in final crisis).
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Post by zaku on Jun 19, 2023 1:01:19 GMT -5
Some things from Byrne's run worked well; Luthor as a corporate shark was brilliant. As for Superman killing.....I think that killing if there really is no option isn't a bad thing. He's used lethal force when he had to even in the Silver age, and the idea that killing in self defense or when there's no other choice is kinda insulting to people who've been put in similar situations but didn't crack. This isn't to say it should be a matter of course. But in the case of people like Zod, Darkseid, or Brainiac I can see killing be on the table (hell Supes DOES kill Darkseid in final crisis). I think the theme of killing in comics, in self-defense or not, is a topic that deserves a separate thread. Of course writers can come up with the most absurd situations where our hero manages to save the day without killing anyone, but when someone decides to use violence as a method of problem solving they have to take into account that he may one day kill someone, accidentally or not . To say, it's absurd that Batman never manages to kill anyone, not even accidentally. Quite simply, a criminal with a heart disease who suddenly collapses because a giant bat suddenly appears in front of him at night.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 19, 2023 1:17:11 GMT -5
Some things from Byrne's run worked well; Luthor as a corporate shark was brilliant. Yes, but that concept came from Wolfman, not Byrne. It's been a while since I've read it (and, being a Byrne story, it isn't one I'm excited to return to), but I thought I remembered the issue being that Superman didn't need to kill them. The crime was already done. Killing them was something he did out of a desire for revenge.
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