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Post by berkley on Apr 12, 2016 2:32:28 GMT -5
I've been steadily making my way through that biiiiiiiiig East Of West HC collecting the first fifteen issues. Great stuff! I've tried twice to get into East of West and have failed both times. It seems like it should be up my alley, but I cannot get into it. I really don't know what I'm missing in it. On the other hand, I appear to be the only SF fan who has ever hated Dune. So what do I know? Dune the book, or the movie or tv series? As far as the book is concerned, it might be one of those things best encountered during adolescence. The ideas are interesting, the basic plot of course follows a classic adventure story pattern, skilfully managed, IMO. I thought it was great back then and still do, though I haven't re-read it. As for Hickman, I read a lot of the previews when he first started on the Avengers and thought he showed some potential so I decided to read one of his solo things - which I still haven't gotten round to, ridiculously. But I have Pax Romana and Nightly News here somewhere, and I think I'll get to one or both of them pretty soon.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 12, 2016 9:25:30 GMT -5
I've tried twice to get into East of West and have failed both times. It seems like it should be up my alley, but I cannot get into it. I really don't know what I'm missing in it. On the other hand, I appear to be the only SF fan who has ever hated Dune. So what do I know? Dune the book, or the movie or tv series? As far as the book is concerned, it might be one of those things best encountered during adolescence. The ideas are interesting, the basic plot of course follows a classic adventure story pattern, skilfully managed, IMO. I thought it was great back then and still do, though I haven't re-read it. As for Hickman, I read a lot of the previews when he first started on the Avengers and thought he showed some potential so I decided to read one of his solo things - which I still haven't gotten round to, ridiculously. But I have Pax Romana and Nightly News here somewhere, and I think I'll get to one or both of them pretty soon. Dune the book. And my first attempt I was probably 14.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 12, 2016 9:40:02 GMT -5
On the other hand, I appear to be the only SF fan who has ever hated Dune. So what do I know? While I like the ideas that Dune presents, let's be honest, it's too horrendously long and drawn out for it's own good I summon the dissenting opinion! I was disappointed with God Emperor, Heretics and Chapterhouse when they came out, mostly because none of them managed to recapture the epic feel of the original novel. However, re-reading them years later, I was more ready to take them for what they were: independent novels set thousands of years after Dune, and perforce dealing with different themes. I can't say I enjoyed them as much as Dune, because that's a fairly tall order; however, I nevertheless see them as very, very good SF books. The Dune Encyclopedia is a very good read too. Much better than the prequels-sequels-inbetweenquels that tried to milk the franchise for all it's worth, and turned the Dune series into a bad parody of itself.
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Post by berkley on Apr 12, 2016 22:57:28 GMT -5
While I like the ideas that Dune presents, let's be honest, it's too horrendously long and drawn out for it's own good I summon the dissenting opinion! I was disappointed with God Emperor, Heretics and Chapterhouse when they came out, mostly because none of them managed to recapture the epic feel of the original novel. However, re-reading them years later, I was more ready to take them for what they were: independent novels set thousands of years after Dune, and perforce dealing with different themes. I can't say I enjoyed them as much as Dune, because that's a fairly tall order; however, I nevertheless see them as very, very good SF books. The Dune Encyclopedia is a very good read too. Much better than the prequels-sequels-inbetweenquels that tried to milk the franchise for all it's worth, and turned the Dune series into a bad parody of itself. I can't think how I missed buying the Dune Encyclopedia when it was first published. Hope I can find a cheap used copy one of these days. I like the first three a lot, and God Emperor, which I got for Christmas (by my own request) in hardcover when it came out, was intriguing, though, as you say, kind of its own thing. The last two I didn't take to as much but they have their merits.
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Post by Batflunkie on Apr 13, 2016 10:37:01 GMT -5
The new Moon Knight volume is already off to a fantastic start with #1. Not only is the art breathtaking, but the writing is incredibly strong
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Post by berkley on Apr 13, 2016 10:45:13 GMT -5
That MK artwork looks fantastic but I'm more than a little sceptical about the premise. Focusing on Spector's supposed mental health problems is almost always the wrong approach for this character, IMO.
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Post by Batflunkie on Apr 13, 2016 10:49:02 GMT -5
That MK artwork looks fantastic but I'm more than a little sceptical about the premise. Focusing on Spector's supposed mental health problems is almost always the wrong approach for this character, IMO. Spector's "mental health" problems are really no different that than of Bruce Wayne's, but unlike Batman, Moon Knight's multiple personality disorder has always been a central and vital element of the character's mythos and motives right from the beginning.
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Post by berkley on Apr 13, 2016 15:53:38 GMT -5
That MK artwork looks fantastic but I'm more than a little sceptical about the premise. Focusing on Spector's supposed mental health problems is almost always the wrong approach for this character, IMO. Spector's "mental health" problems are really no different that than of Bruce Wayne's, but unlike Batman, Moon Knight's multiple personality disorder has always been a central and vital element of the character's mythos and motives right from the beginning. "Right from the beginning" would mean the character's first appearances in Werewolf by Night and the Marvel Spotlight stories, so I'd have to disagree with you there. Moench began to introduce it in the solo series, I believe, but it's become too much of a focus for writers eager to latch on to such an obvious plot-generator.
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Post by Dizzy D on Apr 14, 2016 2:01:16 GMT -5
I liked Ellis' take on it: how can anybody tell the difference between a person being crazy and a person talking to a genuine Egyptian deity?
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Post by Dizzy D on Apr 14, 2016 7:58:38 GMT -5
Mm.. forum/browser ate my previous draft.
As I said in another thread here, I discovered that Dan Abnett was doing Master of the Universe comics with Stjepan Šejić doing the covers (sadly not the internal art), so I managed to get the three trades they done so far (and preordered the next trade which was supposed to come out next week, but DC and trades...)
This is basically me being fueled by nostalgia and I quite like that they seem to combine the various continuities over the years (I see elements from the 80s and 2000s cartoons, the early mini-comics and so on) into something new, picking and dropping what they like and don't. From what I saw the other trades were by Geoff Johns and my nostalgia is not that powerful.
Having not read the first 3 trades, I can understand that the status quo at the start of Abnett's run is: 1) He-Man/Adam does not use a secret identity (unclear if this is from the start or that he has done away with it in recent issues). 2) Skeletor's past as Keldor is common knowledge to the major characters, combining his 2000s appearance with his backstory as the King's brother from the mini-comics by making him a half-brother. Skeletor himself has been banished to another dimension after a visit to Earth. 3) Hordak is a disembodied spirit, trying to become flesh again. His Horde has conquered Castle Grayskull. 4) The Sorceress is dead and with Castle Grayskull under control of the Horde, He-Man and allies are fighting a losing war. 5) Adam's sister Adora was Hordak's lieutenant Despera and was the one to conquer Castle Grayskull for him, but has been freed.
So all in all, a place with a lot of potential. This run introduces the Snakemen and I quite like the way they changed their King Hiss (or Hsss), who I always found lacking when compared to his rivals, and also the way they fit into this new world. (see below for spoilers). The series has also revealed what power is exactly at the heart of Castle Grayskull and why it is so important, while previous continuities usually just went for a rather vague cosmic power/key to the universe type of thing. I also quite like to see that with Skeletor absent and Hordak winning, most of Skeletor's minions have joined Hordak's forces.
So the longer spoilered version of the three trades:
===SPOILERS=== The first trade is basically one long story: With the Sorceress dead, King Randor and the others try to resurrect her, using the source of Grayskull's power, the remnants of the power that created the universe, worshipped by Eternians as a Goddess. A quest which takes them through various danger to arrive at the center of Eternia. It turns out that Randor has been replaced by King Hsss who wants to resurrect his Snakemen instead, but in the end Teela is chosen to replace her mother, now using a snake motif (going back to her original toy/mini-comics) instead of the eagle her mother used) and seen by the Snakemen as the high priestess of their goddess Serpos. Hsss tries to take control but is thrown into an abyss (though not dead as we see at the end) and Adam now has an army to oppose the Horde, but it has cost him his father and maybe his friend (he's not sure what Teela has become).
The second trade is mostly focused on Adora redeeming herself after being Hordak's lieutenant for years and finding the Sword of Protection and receiving the power of She-Ra, but also has some flashbacks to the time of King Grayskull. As is the case in trade 1, the heroes have some victories but losses as well; Adora is no longer burdened by her past, but Hordak's minions gain He-Man's blood which allows them to resurrect Hordak and access the center of Castle Grayskull.
The final trade, the first part of the Eternity War has He-Man leading the Snakemen in battle against the Horde. The Snakemen who previously just followed their priestess orders, are won over by Adam's leadership and things are looking good, but Hordak has become flesh again and forged his own sword at the center of Castle Grayskull, claiming its power for his own. Teela reveals that Hordak is searching for two crystals, the Eyes of Grayskull, that can turn the castle itself into a deadly weapon. The search ends with She-Ra facing the empowered Hordak, but in the end being saved by Skeletor who has returned. During his trip to different dimensions Skeletor has observed many alternate versions of himself and they all had 1 thing in common: they lost, so he offers his assistance in return for She-Ra using her power to restore him back to his old self. A good idea, but it turns one of his remaining minions against him, fearing abandonement and she delivers the two crystals to Hordak. Meanwhile Teela has given Adam a vision of the future where he has beaten Hordak, but at the cost of becoming a corrupt despot himself. She offers him a third choice: rejecting Grayskull's power and using his own inate power to defeat Hordak. Adam complies, using his strength to break his own sword and returns to his non-He-Man form for the first time in this series.
===END SPOILERS===
Overall it's an enjoyable trip for fans of the series. Especially fun to see some really minor characters suddenly get a part (Vultak?, Dylamug?) and some previous one-note characters like Grizzlor made more interesting (he used to be a savage beast, but now he's one of Hordak's generals, more an Atilla the Hun like figure; barbaric, but tactically brilliant). So far the Masters themselves are mostly ignored (the first trade only has Adam, Teela, Mossman and Stratos as heroes. Later issues show some cameos from other heroes and Man-At-Arms of course has to react to the changes in his daughter, but the story is mainly Adam, Adora and Teela vs. Hordak's forces. The stories have victories for the heroes, but for the villains as well so neither side becomes incompetent. It's quite a bit more violent than the cartoon and 80s comics, but it's an entertaining sword&sorcery with bits of sci-fi mixed in.
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Post by Batflunkie on Apr 14, 2016 8:33:17 GMT -5
He-Man was always one of those series that I was absolutely sure that Time Warner would eventually pawn off to an indie publisher like IDW or Boom!, which seems to be happening a lot lately
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Post by berkley on Apr 14, 2016 23:20:05 GMT -5
I liked Ellis' take on it: how can anybody tell the difference between a person being crazy and a person talking to a genuine Egyptian deity? Ellis pretty much nailed the character, for me. Or, to put it another way, his take on Moon Knight was very close to how I see the character and how I would like to see him written, as far as I could tell from Ellis's all too brief six issue run. I'll still give the new series a chance. I haven't read anything of Lemire's - which of his independent series is a good place get an idea of what he can do?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 23:41:25 GMT -5
I liked Ellis' take on it: how can anybody tell the difference between a person being crazy and a person talking to a genuine Egyptian deity? Ellis pretty much nailed the character, for me. Or, to put it another way, his take on Moon Knight was very close to how I see the character and how I would like to see him written, as far as I could tell from Ellis's all too brief six issue run. I'll still give the new series a chance. I haven't read anything of Lemire's - which of his independent series is a good place get an idea of what he can do? My favorite thing by Lemire is Trillium, which he wrote and painted, and was put out by Vertigo. I also quite like Descender from Image (he is writer only on that). Sweet Tooth (also from Vertigo) is one I have heard great things on but haven't sampled. I've intended to check out his other indy stuff, but haven't gotten around to it. Essex County and Plutona get high marks form people's whose tastes are similar to mine, so they are on my radar. For his more mainstream work-for-hire stuff, I liked his Green Arrow and The Valiant mini he co-wrote with Matt Kindt with art by Paolo Rivera. I was mostly meh on his other DC stuff, Animal Man had potential but got subsumed into the murky mess that was Snyder's Swamp Thing and the rest was utterly forgettable standard fare. I haven't read any of his Marvel stuff yet. -M
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Post by berkley on Apr 14, 2016 23:57:17 GMT -5
Ellis pretty much nailed the character, for me. Or, to put it another way, his take on Moon Knight was very close to how I see the character and how I would like to see him written, as far as I could tell from Ellis's all too brief six issue run. I'll still give the new series a chance. I haven't read anything of Lemire's - which of his independent series is a good place get an idea of what he can do? My favorite thing by Lemire is Trillium, which he wrote and painted, and was put out by Vertigo. I also quite like Descender from Image (he is writer only on that). Sweet Tooth (also from Vertigo) is one I have heard great things on but haven't sampled. I've intended to check out his other indy stuff, but haven't gotten around to it. Essex County and Plutona get high marks form people's whose tastes are similar to mine, so they are on my radar. For his more mainstream work-for-hire stuff, I liked his Green Arrow and The Valiant mini he co-wrote with Matt Kindt with art by Paolo Rivera. I was mostly meh on his other DC stuff, Animal Man had potential but got subsumed into the murky mess that was Snyder's Swamp Thing and the rest was utterly forgettable standard fare. I haven't read any of his Marvel stuff yet. -M After a quick image-search Trillium looks like the one to start with for me; or maybe Essex County. Not that interested in his DC stuff, or rather the series he's worked on so far.
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Post by Spike-X on Apr 15, 2016 1:57:36 GMT -5
Sweet Tooth is great. It's not a DC book, it's just a book that happens to be published by DC.
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