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Post by tartanphantom on May 3, 2023 19:58:31 GMT -5
I love Tombstone, but I 100% have to turn my brain off before I watch it. All the various Earp movies are just soooo bad at the history. But Tombstone has so many great performances.
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Post by berkley on May 3, 2023 21:31:06 GMT -5
I haven't seen Tombstone or Clementine but I did watch Gunfight at the OK Corral around a year or two back. I thought it was mostly carried by Kirk Douglas's and Burt Lancaster's star power, especially the latter. I like Rhonda Fleming but felt she wasn't given much to work with in her part. This is a failing with a lot of westerns, actually, IMO: not many good female roles, with a few obvious exceptions. I think if I'd been an agent back in the day I'd have told all my actress clients, "No westerns!", unless they were offered an astronomical paycheque.
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Post by Prince Hal on May 3, 2023 21:48:57 GMT -5
I haven't seen Tombstone or Clementine but I did watch Gunfight at the OK Corral around a year or two back. I thought it was mostly carried by Kirk Douglas's and Burt Lancaster's star power, especially the latter. I like Rhonda Fleming but felt she wasn't given much to work with in her part. This is a failing with a lot of westerns, actually, IMO: not many good female roles, with a few obvious exceptions. I think if I'd been an agent back in the day I'd have told all my actress clients, "No westerns!", unless they were offered an astronomical paycheque. Both “Tombstone” and “Clementine” are well worth watching when you get a chance. As for women in Westerns, you’re right, but there have been some exceptions. I’d give the Netflix series “Godless” a look. Over the top at times, but much to like. Even better perhaps, is the Prime series “The English,” with Emily Blount. One more, a 1950 Western, stars Barbara Stanwyck, who almost always plays an independent woman with a steel backbone, is just that in Anthony Mann’s “The Furies,“ a noirish Western. Stanwyck. Is also good as a white captive with a son sired by an Apache chief in a solid 1957 B Western, “Trooper Hook” with Joel McCrea.
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Post by tartanphantom on May 3, 2023 22:05:49 GMT -5
I haven't seen Tombstone or Clementine but I did watch Gunfight at the OK Corral around a year or two back. I thought it was mostly carried by Kirk Douglas's and Burt Lancaster's star power, especially the latter. I like Rhonda Fleming but felt she wasn't given much to work with in her part. This is a failing with a lot of westerns, actually, IMO: not many good female roles, with a few obvious exceptions. I think if I'd been an agent back in the day I'd have told all my actress clients, "No westerns!", unless they were offered an astronomical paycheque. Both “Tombstone” and “Clementine” are well worth watching when you get a chance. As for women in Westerns, you’re right, but there have been some exceptions. I’d give the Netflix series “Godless” a look. Over the top at times, but much to like. Even better perhaps, is the Prime series “The English,” with Emily Blount. One more, a 1950 Western, stars Barbara Stanwyck, who almost always plays an independent woman with a steel backbone, is just that in Anthony Mann’s “The Furies,“ a noirish Western. Stanwyck. Is also good as a white captive with a son sired by an Apache chief in a solid 1957 B Western, “Trooper Hook” with Joel McCrea.
Add Racquel Welch's role in 100 Rifles. Not exactly a bit part.
Also Maureen O'Hara in Big Jake, McClintock! (comedic, but a fully fleshed-out character), and The Rare Breed; And an obvious one, Katherine Hepburn in Rooster Cogburn. Many people consider it an inferior sequel to True Grit, but I think the screenplay was saved by Kate's character performance.
And the true scene stealer of The Cheyenne Social Club was Shirley Jones.
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Post by Prince Hal on May 3, 2023 22:16:03 GMT -5
Both “Tombstone” and “Clementine” are well worth watching when you get a chance. As for women in Westerns, you’re right, but there have been some exceptions. I’d give the Netflix series “Godless” a look. Over the top at times, but much to like. Even better perhaps, is the Prime series “The English,” with Emily Blount. One more, a 1950 Western, stars Barbara Stanwyck, who almost always plays an independent woman with a steel backbone, is just that in Anthony Mann’s “The Furies,“ a noirish Western. Stanwyck. Is also good as a white captive with a son sired by an Apache chief in a solid 1957 B Western, “Trooper Hook” with Joel McCrea.
Add Racquel Welch's role in 100 Rifles. Not exactly a bit part.
Also Maureen O'Hara in Big Jake, McClintock! (comedic, but a fully fleshed-out character), and The Rare Breed; And an obvious one, Katherine Hepburn in Rooster Cogburn. Many people consider it an inferior sequel to True Grit, but I think the screenplay was saved by Kate's character performance.
And the true scene stealer of Cheyenne Social Club was Shirley Jones.
Yes to O'Hara in McLintock and Breed, but she barely makes a cameo in Big Jake; she should have gone on the hunt to Mexico with Jake, but the part was written to be small, unfortunately. In fact, some of O'Hara's scenes were cut b/c the film was running long, and she was none too pleased. Shirley Jones was born to steal scenes, q.v. Elmer Gantry. She sizzles.
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Post by tartanphantom on May 3, 2023 22:24:49 GMT -5
Add Racquel Welch's role in 100 Rifles. Not exactly a bit part.
Also Maureen O'Hara in Big Jake, McClintock! (comedic, but a fully fleshed-out character), and The Rare Breed; And an obvious one, Katherine Hepburn in Rooster Cogburn. Many people consider it an inferior sequel to True Grit, but I think the screenplay was saved by Kate's character performance.
And the true scene stealer of Cheyenne Social Club was Shirley Jones.
Yes to O'Hara in McLintock and Breed, but she barely makes a cameo in Big Jake; she should have gone on the hunt to Mexico with Jake, but the part was written to be small, unfortunately. In fact, some of O'Hara's scenes were cut b/c the film was running long, and she was none too pleased. Shirley Jones was born to steal scenes, q.v. Elmer Gantry. She sizzles. O'Hara possibly got the short end of screen time in Big Jake due to the quid-pro-quo Wayne had with Robert Mitchum for Christopher's role... Chris' level of delivery was barely above high school drama class in that film. Patrick Wayne was marginally better and slightly more convincing. But par for the course, Richard Boone makes for one mean and ugly outlaw!
And yes, Jones was off the chain in Elmer Gantry.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 4, 2023 9:54:37 GMT -5
Some westerns with good roles for women ...
Shelley Winters in Winchester ’73
Janet Leigh in The Naked Spur
Joan Crawford in Johnny Guitar
Barbara Stanwyck in Forty Guns
Doris Day in Calamity Jane
The Harvey Girls with Judy Garland, Cyd Charisse, Angela Lansbury and Virginia O’Brien
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Post by Prince Hal on May 4, 2023 10:44:31 GMT -5
Some westerns with good roles for women ... Shelley Winters in Winchester ’73 Janet Leigh in The Naked Spur Joan Crawford in Johnny Guitar Barbara Stanwyck in Forty Guns Doris Day in Calamity Jane The Harvey Girls with Judy Garland, Cyd Charisse, Angela Lansbury and Virginia O’Brien All good choices! Just remembered how good Hailee Steinfeld was in the Coen Brothers' take on True Grit. and Anne Baxter in Yellow Sky with Gregory Peck. A far cry from Eve Harrington.
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Post by Rob Allen on May 4, 2023 10:57:05 GMT -5
My wife decided to try more movies directed by Michael Curtiz. We watched Yankee Doodle Dandy and are now watching We're No Angels.
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Post by berkley on May 4, 2023 11:38:35 GMT -5
Some westerns with good roles for women ... Shelley Winters in Winchester ’73 Janet Leigh in The Naked Spur Joan Crawford in Johnny Guitar Barbara Stanwyck in Forty Guns Doris Day in Calamity Jane The Harvey Girls with Judy Garland, Cyd Charisse, Angela Lansbury and Virginia O’Brien
I was going to mention Johnny Guitar as a prominent exception but for me the result was spoiled a little by the casting of Joan Crawford, who I found stiff and unconvincing. But I admit that that might be just a personal dislike of her screen persona - at least at this stage of her career: a few weeks ago I watched Grand Hotel (1932) and was surprised at how good she was in that one, so maybe I need to see more of her earlier career in the '30s.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 4, 2023 11:38:43 GMT -5
My wife decided to try more movies directed by Michael Curtiz. We watched Yankee Doodle Dandy and are now watching We're No Angels. Michael Curtiz is one of my favorite directors. He directed one great movie after another. Yankee Doodle Dandy is one that I like a lot. I’m not so keen on We’re No Angels. It has its moments.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 4, 2023 11:42:17 GMT -5
Some westerns with good roles for women ... Shelley Winters in Winchester ’73 Janet Leigh in The Naked Spur Joan Crawford in Johnny Guitar Barbara Stanwyck in Forty Guns Doris Day in Calamity Jane The Harvey Girls with Judy Garland, Cyd Charisse, Angela Lansbury and Virginia O’Brien All good choices! Just remembered how good Hailee Steinfeld was in the Coen Brothers' take on True Grit. and Anne Baxter in Yellow Sky with Gregory Peck. A far cry from Eve Harrington. I’ve never seen Yellow Sky. I‘ll have to see if I can find it somewhere. I definitely thought of Hailee Steinfeld, but I were thought we were talking more about classic Hollywood westerns. I would also add Sharon Stone in The Quick and the Dead. As well as Jane Fonda in Cat Ballou.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 4, 2023 11:43:55 GMT -5
Some westerns with good roles for women ... Shelley Winters in Winchester ’73 Janet Leigh in The Naked Spur Joan Crawford in Johnny Guitar Barbara Stanwyck in Forty Guns Doris Day in Calamity Jane The Harvey Girls with Judy Garland, Cyd Charisse, Angela Lansbury and Virginia O’Brien
I was going to mention Johnny Guitar as a prominent exception but for me the result was spoiled a little by the casting of Joan Crawford, who I found stiff and unconvincing. But I admit that that might be just a personal dislike of her screen persona - at least at this stage of her career: a few weeks ago I watched Grand Hotel (1932) and was surprised at how good she was in that one, so maybe I need to see more of her earlier career in the '30s.
See if you can find a film called Dancing Lady. Joan Crawford is pretty good in it. And it’s absolutely crazy!
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Post by Hoosier X on May 4, 2023 11:47:21 GMT -5
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Post by Prince Hal on May 4, 2023 12:21:46 GMT -5
Curtiz is the Jack Kirby of film directors. There's no genre he couldn't do. Name a genre and he has directed films in it. Crime, musical, Westerns, foreign intrigue, melodrama, horror, swashbuckler, drama, comedy, social commentary, adventure, historical, noir, war, prison, biography, mystery, sports, epic, and permutations of all of them, too. And that's not counting the dozens of movies he made in Europe before he came to America. Keep watching the Mad Hungarian's movies...
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