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Post by Warmonger on Sept 6, 2015 15:30:26 GMT -5
Batman
He's just always been a far more interesting character to me.
I guess I always found Superman to be a bit dull. He's the perfect, goody two-shoes boyscout who is essentially indestructible.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not nearly as educated on his background as many here are, but from the main Superman stuff I have read (late 70's-early 80's), he didn't really seem to have any moral grey area. He never wrestled with tough decisions much. There was never any real weighing of the pros and cons of each side of the coin.
It just made for a mostly boring experience IMO.
Superman once again saves the day, turns and smiles, and flies off into the sunset.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Sept 6, 2015 15:55:17 GMT -5
A couple more notes for the S defense:
1) Superman is the ultimate immigrant myth - or at least the ultimate America immigrant myth. This gives him a lot of thematic and emotional weight that Batman - who's never really been ABOUT anything - can't equal. And "being stuck between two worlds" is something that everyone can relate to in some way.
2) Superman has a better secret identity. This is not even debatable. Batman is a superhero half the time and the rest of the time he's Richie Rich. Clark Kent is a better vehicle for telling humorous and dramatic stories than Lois Lane, and the struggle to maintain the Clark Kent identity adds emotional weight to Superman's stories.
3) Superman wants to make stuff better and he achieves his goal. Batman wants to stop crime and is fighting an unwinnable battle. Superman is inherently optimistic while - over the last 40 years - Batman has become increasingly pessimistic. And the former is simply a better approach in the genre of goofy spandex power fantasies.
4) Superman's moral code makes for more complex and satisfying stories. Batman has to beat up the Joker or solve the Riddler's riddles. Batman has to win. Even the Adam West Batman was about competetion. Conversely, Superman has to find the most morally correct solution to every problem. He can't simply win, he has to do the right thing. (As I said earlier, I contend that this was true even during the Weissinger years, at least from Mort's..... unique point of view.)
5) Superman has a better supporting cast, and this has been proved by their consistency. How many Robin's have their been? How many Batgirls and Bat-girls? How many times has Alfred been sent away or re-booted into a completely different character? (Fat Alfred is still the best. Screw you, last 60 years of comics!) Meanwhile, Jimmy Olsen, Perry While, and Supergirl have stayed surprisingly consistent, and Lois Land had one major character shift - Weissinger again - before defaulting back to her original personality.
6) Miracle Monday is better than any Batman story, ever.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Sept 6, 2015 16:05:19 GMT -5
Wayne's Batman identity is a choice, while Kal El's Kent identity is a necessity, which makes for a more dramatic setting. Even f I probably much more Batman issues then Superman, I have to give my vote to Supes.
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Post by dupersuper on Sept 8, 2015 9:54:46 GMT -5
Despite being super-strong and able to do amazing things, he's still vulnerable to emotion and constraints on those around him. That's the beauty of SUPERMAN 2 - Of where Superman was battling not just 1 villain but 3 in that movie and what you said here hit me like a ton of bricks. But, he managed to out-think (With the help of Luthor) them at the end and restore order. His emotions was running high and faced many odds/problems (constraints) and that's made him more human and that's makes him more attractive hero than Batman. The inadvertent help of Luthor...who he manipulated. |
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Post by dupersuper on Sept 8, 2015 9:55:06 GMT -5
Superman once again saves the day, turns and smiles, and flies off into the sunset. He says as if it's a bad thing... |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Sept 8, 2015 10:09:41 GMT -5
5) Superman has a better supporting cast, and this has been proved by their consistency. How many Robin's have their been? How many Batgirls and Bat-girls? How many times has Alfred been sent away or re-booted into a completely different character? (Fat Alfred is still the best. Screw you, last 60 years of comics!) Meanwhile, Jimmy Olsen, Perry While, and Supergirl have stayed surprisingly consistent, and Lois Land had one major character shift - Weissinger again - before defaulting back to her original personality. Ok, this one's a little weak. Commissioner Gordon has been with Batman since the beginning and has basically served the same purpose without an Alfred style total reboot. And Supergirl was a whole different character TWICE (at least!) in the '90s, which I had forgotten about. But the current Supergirl really isn't that far off from the Jim Mooney version. I stand by the rest of them, though! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 15:27:12 GMT -5
Superman. At least the pre 52 version of Superman. To me, Superman represents trying to do what is right, hope, and optimism. I like Batman too, but Superman is my choice. His story appeals to me as he can all these great things and has to keep them to himself.The way the Kents raised him and instilled kindness, humbleness, and humility is a great contrast to his out of this world abilities. Thank goodness he was raised by the Kents and not some terrible people.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 9, 2015 18:23:34 GMT -5
Somewhere, as we speak, Action Ace and dupersuper are doing the happy dance.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,865
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Post by shaxper on Sept 9, 2015 19:22:48 GMT -5
Somewhere, as we speak, Action Ace and dupersuper are doing the happy dance. Awfully close, though! |
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Post by Action Ace on Sept 10, 2015 19:01:25 GMT -5
Somewhere, as we speak, Action Ace and dupersuper are doing the happy dance. We kept it close in the cities and then ran up the vote in the rural areas. I think the average age of the posters here accounts for the lack of a Bat blowout. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,865
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Post by shaxper on Sept 10, 2015 19:09:45 GMT -5
I think the average age of the posters here accounts for the lack of a Bat blowout. Age range of users who access this site: 33.5% 25-34 yrs old 27.5% 18-24 yrs old 15.5% 35-44 yrs old 12.5% 45-54 yrs old 5.5% 55-64 yrs old 5.5% 65+ yrs old (figures from Google Analytics. Note that it tracks all people who access the site, not just those who join or actively participate). So, despite most folks' assumptions, we're a pretty young community, albeit with mature tastes. Batman really took over as the fan favorite in the late 1980s. 61% of folks accessing the CCF were still very young (or not even born yet) when this happened. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 10, 2015 19:19:42 GMT -5
I think the average age of the posters here accounts for the lack of a Bat blowout. Age range of users who access this site: 33.5% 25-34 yrs old 27.5% 18-24 yrs old 15.5% 35-44 yrs old 12.5% 45-54 yrs old 5.5% 55-64 yrs old 5.5% 65+ yrs old (figures from Google Analytics. Note that it tracks all people who access the site, not just those who join or actively participate). So, despite most folks' assumptions, we're a pretty young community, albeit with mature tastes. Batman really took over as the fan favorite in the late 1980s. 61% of folks accessing the CCF were still very young (or not even born yet) when this happened. That's impressive that you have those stats. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 10, 2015 19:20:19 GMT -5
Superman should win. He's the first and the greatest hero of them all.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,865
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Post by shaxper on Sept 10, 2015 19:20:46 GMT -5
Age range of users who access this site: 33.5% 25-34 yrs old 27.5% 18-24 yrs old 15.5% 35-44 yrs old 12.5% 45-54 yrs old 5.5% 55-64 yrs old 5.5% 65+ yrs old (figures from Google Analytics. Note that it tracks all people who access the site, not just those who join or actively participate). So, despite most folks' assumptions, we're a pretty young community, albeit with mature tastes. Batman really took over as the fan favorite in the late 1980s. 61% of folks accessing the CCF were still very young (or not even born yet) when this happened. That's impressive that you have those stats. I care about this community and do what I can to keep it rolling. Keeping track of who is coming here and who is not factors in as an important piece of that puzzle. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 20:01:34 GMT -5
I think the average age of the posters here accounts for the lack of a Bat blowout. Age range of users who access this site: 33.5% 25-34 yrs old 27.5% 18-24 yrs old 15.5% 35-44 yrs old 12.5% 45-54 yrs old 5.5% 55-64 yrs old 5.5% 65+ yrs old (figures from Google Analytics. Note that it tracks all people who access the site, not just those who join or actively participate). So, despite most folks' assumptions, we're a pretty young community, albeit with mature tastes. Batman really took over as the fan favorite in the late 1980s. 61% of folks accessing the CCF were still very young (or not even born yet) when this happened. This data really surprised me. Maybe the members would be on the older end of the spectrum? |
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