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Post by Trevor on Sept 23, 2015 17:42:03 GMT -5
Great reviews, thanks! And btw, today is Mr. David's birthday.
I only read a couple of his Supergirl issues so far, but like everything else PAD has written, it was good enough to buy it all and read eventually.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Sept 24, 2015 5:49:03 GMT -5
There is one more thing in the Kara vs Linda/Matrix/anyone else as Supergirl debate I'd like to touch on.
On the CBR board, I got into a discussion with someone who was complaining about the Batman family having more books than the Superman family, and how the Superman family also has very few characters compared to the Batman family. At the same time there was another discussion going on about 'how many Kryptonians' people wanted. with the 'last son' idea being ridiculed by he majority as too limiting. But I don't see it that way at all.
In the post-crisis DCU there was no room for Kara not because Matrix had the role, but because of an editorial edict that would eventually be reversed. Likewise, after Kara was brought back in 2004, it was an edict that kept Linda/Matrix in limbo rater than something inherent in Kara. Even Cir-El's replacement of Linda in 2003 was because of an editorial edict instead of being because the two couldn't coexist. The multiple Supergirls can coexist so easily that DC would have evolved the PAD series into one that revolved around that very concept if not for the Cir El experiment.
This is because with legacy/sidekick characters the roles are supposed to be grown out of eventually. Eventually Dick grows up and someone else becomes Robin. Eventually Barbara gets too old to keep calling herself 'Batgirl.' Then Cass or Steph takes up the mantle until they outgrow it as well. In theory Supergirl should work the same way. Eventually the person with the mantle should 'graduate' to Superwoman or another name and then there'd be an opening for someone else to use the title. Cir-El in particular probably would have gone over better with fans if they never called her Supergirl in the first place.
Kara is an exception, however, for two reasons, both of which apply specifically to when she is the 'first' Supergirl of a given continuity. One is that she is not going to outgrow the Supergirl name, probably ever. Before or after the reboot, the only foreseeable way for Kara to give the title to someone else is to either have her quit being a superhero altogether or die, because Kara is never going to grow beyond the role of Superman's younger cousin.
Being Superman's cousin presents its own strengths and weaknesses. Being a blood relative makes it easy to establish a relationship between her and Superman at any point, which is why she can afford to be introduced after other Supergirls. No matter how many 'step-siblings' Superman has, there is always room for 'real' cousins. On the other hand, if Kara is introduced first, like in the Nu52, that makes it harder for other characters to establish a family relationship with Superman, because everyone involved, Superman, the other superhero(es) being introduced, and the writer, will have a much harder time establishing that sort of relationship. It's like having Damien be the first Robin and then trying to establish a father/son relationship between Bruce and Dick or Jason or Tim. You're just fulfilling a need that's already been filled.
This means that when Kara is introduced, especially if she is introduced before any other character, it becomes much harder to expand the female side of the Superman family. Even on the male side, storywise it works better to have male characters who aren't human like Steel put on the shield before other Kryptonians show up.
What options does that leave a character like Matrix/Linda in the Nu52? From 2005-2011, they could have brought Linda back at any time, given a small explanation of where she'd been, and there'd have been no problems with Kara giving up the name because Linda would have just gone by Superwoman or another name with her history intact. Now, in order to stay in the Superman family, there are only two options. One is to retcon her into having a history with Superman from before Kara arrived, which is feasible but cuts into Kara's brand and perhaps goes against the 'reboot' grain too much. Just keeping the stepsister angle would require her to be raised by the Kents during Clark's teenage years because in this continuity they're dead.
The other scenario where she could stay in the Superman family is to make her Superman's romantic interest, which given her history isn't as ridiculous as it sounds at first, but would almost definitely not go over well. That way she can be introduced as a fresh character without either being even more green than Kara or taking away from Kara's status.
The only other way to have her come back at this point would be to separate her from the Superman family altogether. This is probably the best option, especially without the Kents around. Losing the relationships with Clark and Ma/Pa, plus her big sister relationship with Kon-El, would be hard, but they're already gone and between no Kents and Kara, too difficult to reestablish.
I'm actually doing just that. In the DC New Dawn fanfiction universe I'm starting a series about Linda Danvers. I was given an editorial mandate not to call the character 'super'-anything so as not to dilute the 'female super-character' brand, but even if I hadn't been given that mandate, I wouldn't have done so. I decided to not associate with the Superman line at all and put the character in the universe's supernatural line. With the strong supporting cast and unique power set I think she'd work just fine on her own.
That is creatively. How much could such a books sell in the current market when even books associated with the Superman line don't sell well and get cancelled? Probably not well. Saleswise I think the best option would be to use option 1, retconning her into having a history before Kara, to revive the 'Supergirls' concept. With Kara's titles repeatedly failing a new direction is needed for the Supergirl brand, and multiple protagonists may be the way to go.
So going back to the original issue, the relatively small size of the Superman family and line, I think that Kara's presence is one of the factors limiting the size of both. It may be counterintuitive, but it seems to me that including more Kryptonians actually reduces the size of the Superman family. In the late 90s there were 3 Superman spin-off ongoings, Steel, Superboy, and Supergirl. None of them had a Kryptonian, and all 3 were relatively successful. And in theory they could have had 2 more with Strange Visitor and the Eradicator, who was a human in a Kryptonian body. With the introduction of more Kryptonians in the mid-2000s, that was gone. In 2009, the only spin-off was Supergirl, and now there are no spin-offs at all. There were other issues at play, to be sure, such as Didio's unilaterally declaring Matrix erased from canon and the needless darkening of Kon-El's story. But why has there been so little effort put into creating new characters since then when before it seemed that DC had hit new character after hit new character? Why did Batman get to keep all of his male Robins, get back his female sidekicks, and an entirely new sidekick in Harper Row when Superman was reduced to just Kara and sometimes Superboy? Batman has the benefit of his side-characters not working the exclusion of each other except for maybe Damian. But with Kara, it is harder to then make new non-Kryptonian characters, and there's only so many Kryptonian sidekicks even the biggest fans of the silver age will accept. 'Team Superman' as it existed in the 90s is dead and going to stay dead.
Oddly enough though, Cir-El could still coexist with Kara even under these circumstances. Forgetting the reveal at the end of her story, Superman's daughter from the future also has the benefit of being a blood relative, and in theory can work at pretty much any point in his timeline. Which I suppose works if you want to take the term 'Superman family' literally.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Sept 24, 2015 7:17:13 GMT -5
Issue 4 Belly of the BeastThe world is ending, the town is going crazy, and Buzz has quit smoking, so he's happy. Grodd is also happy, declaring himself to be the Beast of the New Testament and having his 'followers' throw the church benches into a large bonfire. He then has Supergirl, who is dressed in a biker getup, throw her mother into the fire. However, Buzz distracts her with a lighter so that she unconsciously uses her tk to knock her mother clear and out of the church. Buzz then picks Sylvia up and takes her home, pretending to be a good Samaritan. Grodd basically declares 'first Leesburg, and then the world!" Supergirl points out that the world is ending and Leesburg is hardly an auspiciously place to start a campaign of world conquest. But Grodd doesn't care. He's been waiting for a moment like this where he can lord over humans and he's gonna live it up. Mattie finds her slain brother hanging in the window of the store he was shot in as a warning to everyone else to stay away. Enraged, she attacks the store owner who killed him. They start fighting over his shotgun. At the same time, Fred and the police are trying to stop a gang of looters who chant Grodd's name. Fred beats one up when another grabs his gun. Mattie shoots the store owner at the same time the looter shoots Fred. Grodd's new followers are carrying him through the streets on a makeshift throne, with Grodd remarking that he finally has a use for humans. Supergirl robbed a local bank (of just one sack of coins and bills, so not very much). She is distracted by a young boy with a baseball bat who looks at her funny. When she goes after him he disappears, leaving behind a bloodstained nametag she recognizes as part of her father's uniform. This shocks Supergirl out of her ape-form and back to normal. She tries to fly off to help her father, but Grodd knocks her down with a mind blast. They fight hand to hand, with Supergirl clearly the stronger of the two. Supergirl says that Grodd, for all his talk about representing the beast within humanity, is just 'a museum piece with an attitude.' Grodd's protestations that he is indeed within all humans seems to shake her, as she says that if that's true than humanity doesn't deserve to live. At that moment, the sun comes back, which restores hope to everyone who sees it, including Supergirl. Grodd is incensed, however, because with the sun back the talisman is powerless and everyone who was affected will go back to normal. He lashes out at Supergirl and hits her with a mind blast so powerful it knocks her into Linda's form. Grodd taunts her for having Linda's evil inside her and they fight some more, this time relying more on their mental based powers. Grodd's telepathy proves to be stronger than her tk, but he accidentally dislodges a large icicle that impales him in the chest, killing him. The battle over, Supergirl is able to find her father and get him to the hospital in time off-panel. Later, Linda is in his room, asking the doctor if he feels he's actually accomplishing anything with the people he helps. She notices that everyone in the hospital looks ashamed of themselves. She also finds Mattie in grief over losing her brother. The man who killed him is brought in for treatment for having been shot in the chest with a shotgun at point blank range, and Mattie goes to help, but with a look of rage on her face. My thoughts: For an issue where the sun comes out and restores hope, this is actually a pessimistic issue. The good guys win in the end, but not before most of the town is forced to confront the 'beast within' and live with the guilt of what they've done. I'm actually surprised that Fred doesn't go ape at some point. The more you believe in good the less the talisman seems to affect you, and he is the most cynical character featured so far, plus his temper almost brought him to hit his own daughter. I guess panic also has something to do it, and as a cop he's had more experience dealing with fear than most people. If she wasn't Linda, seeing Fred's nametag wouldn't have freed Supergirl from Grodd's control, but then again, if she wasn't Linda she'd have never fallen under his control in the first place. Both are evidence of her being human. Looks like she might love her father more though, since Sylvia's being in danger at the beginning didn't have much affect on her. Right now the little boy is a plot device, not a character. He doesn't do anything but stand there. Buzz and Sylvia-Nooooo! Keep away! Don't trust ugly men in trench coats! We get more of the really creepy looking Grodd, which I like. I don't remember there being these religious undertones to his actions before. He got a little too caught up in armageddon. In his next appearance, did they even bother to explain why he was still alive, cause he's both shown and stated to be dead here. This was the darkest issue yet because of what the people of Leesburg, especially Mattie, did. Thankfully the next couple of issue will be lighter. If you like issues that are pessimistic, then it's another B+, because I don't have any complaints and I really like the scene where Supergirl finds the nametag. If you want a more optimistic story then lower the score a little.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Sept 24, 2015 20:26:50 GMT -5
Well, I disagree with a lot of this. I'm putting SoD's quotes in italics, because I can't work the quote system on these freaking boards. What do I think of Matrix/Linda vs Kara Zor-E There's really no contest. I prefer Superman's stepsister to his cousin by a huge margin.Oddly, I really have no really strong opinion here. But I have a couple hundred words of commentary anyway! To me Kara is a product of the Silver Age that, like Kandor, Krypto and the other pets, and bat-shark repellent, should have stayed there.I certainly agree that the writers of such deathless classics as Extreme Justice, X-Force and Team Youngblood would probably be laughed out of Julie Schwartz or Robert Kanigher's office, and probably more forcefully expelled from Weissinger's. The Silver Age Superman required a delicate balance of writing talents... superheroes were treated as goofy kid-stuff, but their emotional problems (exclusion, loneliness, unrequited love) had to be treated with utmost seriousness. I honestly don't see many writers in the extremely shallow '90s superhero pool that could pull that off... Although Peter David would be at the top of the list! He's always been good mixing goofy comedy with a solid emotional core. Luckily, some of the higher tier writers (Moore, Morrison, Kurt Busiek) have given us some great Krypto stories over the last couple decades. (And lesser writers some... not so great Krypto stories. I love Krypto, but he's hard to write.) The problems I have are numerous. The first is Krypton itself. When a race of people can become godlike just by going to another planet, and then gets wiped out because they refuse to do so, there has to be a serious problem with their society that causes them to commit this collective suicide.Yep. Krypton-as-parable-about-unchecked-hubris has been true across every version. Say what you will about Byrne's reboot, but his version of Krypton makes the most sense by far, is also the most alien version, and was nicely expanded upon by later writers with the Eradicator concept. In order to bring Kara back in the first place they had to retcon Byrne's Krypton out of existence in favor of the sillier Silver Age version first, thereby making many it impossible for many good stories from the triangle era to have happened. Superman being the only survivor is relatively easy to make work. The more Kryptonian survivors that are added the harder it is to explain Krypton in a non-silver age context.
Why? Honestly I'm not completely up on the minutea of early '90s Superman - although I agree that Byrne's Krypton was much stronger visually than the Silver Age version, and I personally liked it better. But why couldn't they have just said "Hey, here's another survivor from John Byrne's Krypton! Side Note: And it's worth noting that the '00s retcon certainly wasn't a return to the Silver Age Krypton - it might be slightly closer to the Silver Age version than Byrne's but it was a militaristic, classist society that really didn't bare much relation to any previous interpretations. This wouldn't matter if it was the only problem I had with Kara as a concept. Silly origins can be worked around or ignored as need be.
As the Peter David version proves. However, there is yet another issue with having a second Kryptonian hero-the powers. Superman's godlike powers already make it more difficult to tell compelling stories about him. But when he's unique it is again easier to work around. He is the alpha and the omega.
That's never been true. Just Superman's vulnerability's are more emotional than physical, and his stories (at best) deal with moral/emotional stakes rather than the physical violence of, say, Batman. Or Marvel. Adding another character with the exact same powers creates the exact same problems, only worse. Now there are two godlike beings for whom it is hard to write decent challenges.If you're a terrible writer, sure. And since there have been plenty of terrible writers, Superman and Supergirl aren't like Batman and Robin. They have their own supporting casts and status quos, and don't really interact that much.
And the threats Kara is going to face are automatically going to be lesser in general than the threats Superman will face, because she is never going to be the 'greatest hero on earth' or one of the leaders of the JLA.
That hasn't really proven itself to be true, though. Superman has the Prankser, Terra Man, Toyman, Lois Lane's freaking eight year old niece. The Pre-Crisis Supergirl's villains were generally more powerful. Even the Luthor scientist types generally at least had Kryptonian tech on their sides. Supergirl really didn't have much in the way of iconic villains, though. I'm not incredibly well read on the '70s and '80s Supergirl, but I can't think of any enemies who had more than a handful of appearances. And that really is a problem. And when she teams up with Superman to fight a greater threat than one of them can handle alone, what does she add? Heat vision? Strength? Flying around the world to make it go back in time? How interesting can a teamup between two godlike beings who have no differences in their powers be?So have 'em go out for coffee. or have 'em fight a threat that can match their powers.* Here's the thing - in current comic writing, personality's matter more than powers. The powers are window dressing for fight scenes and can change the stakes of conflict a little bit, but they're not important to the characterization or story beats. In the orignal Justice League stories Superman and John J'onzz were basically identical, power-wise, (and there was a lot of overlap with the rest of the team) but that didn't make the concept a creative or financial failure. Or take Marvel's the Champions. The Black Widow, Hercules (?), Iceman, the Angel (??), and the Ghost Rider ( ??! ?) Were completely different in powers, but didn't have anything to say to each other. So the book tanked. (Although the New X-men, launched about the same time, didn't have much power overlap and they did okay for themselves!) * Speaking as the World's Leading Expert on Team-Up books, I proclaim the above to be the fourth greatest issue of DC Comics Presents, and the Jim Starlin run to be, overall, the best the series has ever been. Team-ups between the two can, and have, worked just fine. They're just not very common, mostly due to the reasons you cited. (Their other team-up in DCCP fell on the good side of mediocre, however. They're not all A + winners.) She is not unique, and by making Superman less unique she makes him less interesting.Not to the comic buying audience, though. The original Captain Marvel was the most widely superhero perodical of all time, and he had Captain Marvel Jr., Mary Marvel, and Hoppy the freaking Marvel Bunny also on the stands while he was selling a million and a half copies a month. The She-Hulk, Toro, Impulse, Aqualad, Speedy (twice), the Blue Boys, Kid Devil, the entire cast of Mark Waid's Flash run and Namora all disagree with you. Anyone who doesn't like Bill Everett's Namora is a bad person. Heck, Ms. Marvel ended up being more popular than the spearside* hero she was derived from. And stealing his name, poor guy. Now I don't see that happening with Superman and Supergirl... but then again, Supes doesn't have a TV show coming up. So maybe. * It's the opposite of distaff. Look it up.
This is why I feel no one seems to be able to figure out how to write her. When she was introduced Superman's reaction was to drop her at an orphanage and make her his 'secret weapon.' Either they were ridiculously misogynistic or they had no plan.
To set her up with her own supporting cast and a status quo that was highly different from Superman's - and a call-back to Captain Marvel, because everyone back then was trying to hit Captain Marvel level sales - doesn't sound like "no plan" to me. And, God, I can't believe I'm saying this about a Mort Weissinger comic, but I... actually.... don't see how this set-up was particulzrly misogynistic. (Now there's a sentence I never thought I'd use!) Incredibly depressing and indicative of some pent-up anger against the world, sure, but no worse than poor Superboy, Jimmy, or Krypto got. Poor, poor, poor Krypto. When she finally came out, her solos floundered because she was just Superman-lite and people were already getting that from Superboy. When they brought her back in 2004, they 'updated' her by making her whiny teenager #4765, then turned her happy-go-lucky for some reason, and by the reboot her series was selling sub-20k. I admittedly haven't been following the Nu52 version at all, but I have to wonder what went so wrong that her solo got itself cancelled right when the hype for the first Supergirl tv series was supposed to be starting. She had to be written out of Smallville. And her tv show is already reminding people of the SNL Black Widow skit before it officially starts, and the supporting cast, with the exception of her sister, is not Kara's but Clark's. Jimmy Olsen, Cat Grant, Lucy Lane, Sam Lane? It's Superman's world and Kara just lives in it.
Oddly, I don't particularly disagree with any of this. I don't think the problem was "Superman-lite" though, as that comic company's had trouble marketing female heroes. I hear over and over how Kara is the 'real' Supergirl, the 'iconic' Supergirl, the Supegirl 'everyone knows.' But neither the sales nor the fandom seem to support that. The longest running Supergirl series only featured her in a couple of issues. Her own series start out selling well, but so did the PAD series and they relatively quickly deteriorate to the same sales the PAD series ended with or even lower. And if you check on places like Fanfiction.net, the Supergirl fandom is pretty much dead. Exactly one story has been updated since July, and 0 have been published since then.
No fictional characters are real! I don't spend a lot of time on fan-fiction.net, so I'll take your word for it. But you're absolutely right that the Peter David series was the longest running Supergirl title - and you can tack on another fifty-odd issues if you count Fallen Angel - and that the Kryptonian Supergirl has never been a particualrly strong seller. But see below... In truth I'm not as against Kara as I'm making it seem. In a silver age context I can accept her and even occasionally enjoy her stories. In Elseworlds stories I have no problem with her at all. And I liked her guest appearances in the BQM Batgirl series. But none of that makes me want to read stories about her, either by herself or especially alongside Superman. I guess in theory someone like BQM could make her work, but in my opinion to date no one has.
I can't help but feel that the reason for Kara's place in DC since 2004 is not her own merit or popularity, but the same Silver Age nostalgia that I feel played a big part in ruining DC over the past decade.I don't see it. Stuff does gets reverted/recycled all the time in superhero comics, but I don't see the current cycle of reversions reflecting the '55-70 era, particularly. Grant Morrisn's Action comics was (supposedly) based on updating the '40s version of the character. The Bat-Family of titles have nothing to do with their Silver Age versions, which were detective stories first and foremost. The Silver Age version of the Flash is the Flash again, as opposed to the Silver Age Flash's sidekick being the Flash so if you realllllllly stretch it I guess that might be a point? Hal Jordan is Green Lantern again, which sucks. (He's never been one of my top 3,598 favorite Green Lanterns.) But his status quo is completely different than any Pre-Crisis version. The angsty teenage Supergirl - which, side note, I thought was awful - doesn't have much to do with any of the Pre-Crisis versions, and her Krypton is not the Silver Age Krypton. Speaking as someone who would LOVE to see a return to Silver Age values like a diversity of genres and greater variety of tone and story structure, I wish we'd have far more Silver Age nostalgia. Here's the thing. It's not nostalgia. It's money. Her comics don't matter. The original Supergirl was created to secure a trademark and to expand the demographic reach of the Superman family. (The Peter David version, sadly, was created because he had a strong idea for a character and wanted to discuss some religious ideas which aren't generally touched on in mainstream comics. Sadly, in corporate land, that's a strike against him.) And she was very successful at that. The fact that her comics haven't done so well is irrelevant. She's still a useful trademark that can sell lunchboxes, pajamas, and halloween costumes. Merchandising brings in vastly more money than comic sales. And the financial side is much more important to DC Time Warner. "Superman's girl cousin" is an easy concept to grasp, and an easier concept to slap on a pair of underoos than.... cult member who is also an alternate reality clone? Or something? God, I read your review yesterday and I'm still not clear what this version of Supergirl's origin is. Now, I'd agree with you that this version of Supergirl was the most creatively successful. But she's not as good for merchandising, so she's not as useful from a corporate perspective. It's not nostalgia. It's money. (It's always money.)
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Sept 25, 2015 4:54:37 GMT -5
But why couldn't they have just said "Hey, here's another survivor from John Byrne's Krypton!
With the Eradicator storyline they explained that the only reason Kal El could leave Krypton is because Jor El altered his DNA before he was born. Many generations earlier the xenophobic leaders of Krypton genetically bound the entire species to the planet in order to ensure the 'purity' of the culture and gene pool and to prevent interbreeding with other races. Any Kryptonian who left the planet after that would die.
Under those circumstances her arriving inside a giant kryptonite meteor would actually make more sense, as she wouldn't have 'left Krypton.' But by then the retcon had already been done.
You're right that a great writer can make pretty much any character work. The question is how good a writer is necessary for the character in question, and whether the writers even want to work that hard. When the likes of Denny O'Neal complain about how hard it is to write Superman when they are at their creative peak there's a problem, and that's not even factoring in Supergirl.
The question of other heroes who have similar powers, especially sidekicks. It is an issue, to be sure. But it is more serious when dealing with the godlike powers of Superman as opposed to characters with lesser powers, and it's barely an issue when dealing with non-powered heroes like the bat-family.
With the 'return to the silver age,' dc had a very funny way of going about it. The introduction to the Identity Crisis trade, which featured major characters being raped and murdered, and the JLA deliberately altering the memories not only of criminals but of fellow heroes, describes it as 'a love letter to the silver age.' For whatever reason, DC decided about 10 years ago to be 'the silver age, but grittier!' and ultimately that led to them having to reboot again.
While marketing is a large factor, it doesn't explain things like the lack of John Stewart in the comics when JLU was on tv, why there's no Supergirl ongoing to go with the tv show, why Kara doesn't sell better than Matrix/Linda, or why it was Matrix and Linda-and never Kara in the comics-who wore the 2 costumes that are the most well known and marketable for Supergirl, the 'classic' red mini-skirt and the one with the white t-shirt. The general public may have some idea that Supergirl is Superman's cousin, they really don't care whether she is or isn't any more than they care if Robin is Tim Drake or Damian Wayne. DC has a serious problem with marketing, and if they think that Kara sells better than other versions because she's more 'iconic' and marketable at this point then they're blind to the actual sales.
It's also not like they stopped selling merchandise based on other versions, even after the reboot. www.google.co.il/imgres?imgurl=https://www.figurerealm.com/userimages/customs/52000/51923-1.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.figurerealm.com/customfigure?action%3Dview%26id%3D51923&h=600&w=450&tbnid=6VPWh8ag868L2M:&docid=0P449D13Yzq3RM&ei=UxMFVolf0Y_sBoePn9AK&tbm=isch&ved=0CBsQMygAMABqFQoTCMnU9ZDvkcgCFdEH2wodh8cHqg
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Sept 25, 2015 6:20:19 GMT -5
I just wrote a full-sized review of issue 5, only to have the page not load and lose the whole thing. Since I don't have time to do it all again, here's an abridged version. Supergirl in Chemical ImbalanceSupergirl visits her other parents' the Kents (Yay!) who notice that she's changed even though she doesn't tell them what happened. Leesburg hasn't gotten over the events of Final Night and is going through a heatwave. Chemo, a kaiju-sized walking slime monster, wakes up and starts causing destruction just by existing. Supergirl tries and fails to fight him, but he sense that she is different from regular people and telepathically asks if he is alive or can be alive. Panicking because Chemo absorbed her into his slime body and she has no air, plus the danger to the town, Supergirl says that he can't ever be alive even though she doesn't know if it is true or not. Despairing, Chemo self-destructs, turning into rainwater that relieves the heatwave. The Kents are always a plus for me, and I like that even in a 'lighter' issue they still deal with the consequences of what happened before. Not covered in the brief summary, Supergirl is getting into Linda's old habits like skateboarding not because she has to do it to keep her cover, but because she feels like it. The first full-fledged A-
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Post by dupersuper on Sept 25, 2015 17:05:36 GMT -5
Between PADs Supergirl, Priests Steel and Kessels Superboy, the Superman triangle era supporting/spin-off books were a real treat back in the day.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Sept 25, 2015 19:39:22 GMT -5
I just wrote a full-sized review of issue 5, only to have the page not load and lose the whole thing. Since I don't have time to do it all again, here's an abridged version. Supergirl in Chemical ImbalanceSupergirl visits her other parents' the Kents (Yay!) who notice that she's changed even though she doesn't tell them what happened. Leesburg hasn't gotten over the events of Final Night and is going through a heatwave. Chemo, a kaiju-sized walking slime monster, wakes up and starts causing destruction just by existing. Supergirl tries and fails to fight him, but he sense that she is different from regular people and telepathically asks if he is alive or can be alive. Panicking because Chemo absorbed her into his slime body and she has no air, plus the danger to the town, Supergirl says that he can't ever be alive even though she doesn't know if it is true or not. Despairing, Chemo self-destructs, turning into rainwater that relieves the heatwave. The Kents are always a plus for me, and I like that even in a 'lighter' issue they still deal with the consequences of what happened before. Not covered in the brief summary, Supergirl is getting into Linda's old habits like skateboarding not because she has to do it to keep her cover, but because she feels like it. The first full-fledged A- Make sure you click on "My Profile" "Profile" "Edit Settings" "Save Drafts." That will keep the stuff you're working on from With the 'return to the silver age,' dc had a very funny way of going about it. The introduction to the Identity Crisis trade, which featured major characters being raped and murdered, and the JLA deliberately altering the memories not only of criminals but of fellow heroes, describes it as 'a love letter to the silver age.' For whatever reason, DC decided about 10 years ago to be 'the silver age, but grittier!' and ultimately that led to them having to reboot again. Identity Crisis was a love letter to the late bronze age, at best. It was a direct sequel to the story in Justice League # 166 from 1979. That's the late bronze age, not the Silver Age. And it featured Deathstroke, a character created in 1982. I've heard the "DC is going back to the Silver Age!" thing before, and it seems like a combination of ignorance (like the Kandor thing), selective reading, and just plain 'ol pissy-assed fan outrage by people who enjoy being offended by stupid things. Scanning though the New 52 Titles: Wonder Woman is a completely new take on the character. Hawkman is still based on the Golden Age version, right? I haven't been keeping up. Superman is a weird mix of everything from the last 50 years. Hawk and Dove are based on their '80s versions. Flash actually does seem fairly close to his Silver Age incarnation. Swamp Thing reverted back to his bronze age version, but still every story reflects what Alan Moore was doing in the '80s, with the Parliament of Trees as major players. Green Lantern is most rooted in the early '80s Green Lantern Corps stuff. Earth Two is a new take on Golden Age characters. Batgirl is closest to her early bronze age version. The Teen Titans are closest in membership to the Peter David and Geoff Johns versions from the '90s and '00s. Superboy is... I'm not sure. Not really his '90s version. The Luthor clone stuff is from the mid '00s, right? Nightwing... has Nightwing ever been centered in Gotham before? I'd count that as a new take on the character. Aquaman does seem a little bit Silver Agey. Superman in Action Comics was supposedly a call-back to his Golden Age roots. Batman is... well, everything but Silver Age. A little bit of '40s, a little bit of '70s, still quite a bit of Dark Knight Returns, and still a lot of '00s. Suicide Squad is a grimmer, grittier, and stupider call-back to the '8os John Ostrander series. Supergirl is closer to her Silver Age version than the '90s version, but still having her fly around without a secret identity leads to a very, very different take on the character than the Silver Age version. Green Arrow is closest to his Golden Age/early Silver Age version. Stormwatch is basically the late '90s Authority. "DC is going back to the Silver Age" might be convenient short-hand for fans who don't care about terminology and are mad that comics aren't catering to their personal chidhood nostalgia. (Instead catering to someone else's childhood nostalgia! How terrible! What an awful, awful insult!) But the term Silver Age means something, - generally '55-70, give or take a year. (Although I only use it as an adjective, and I think the term is overly superhero-centric and, therefore, or limited use. If I'm writing professionally about comics history I generally used specific decades "The 60s Superman" or "50s War Cotmics" rather than the ages.) Mainstream comics are based on a constant cycle of experimentation and reversion. But it doesn't focus on the Silver Age per se, and I don't see it being based on the creator's nostalgia as much as bean counters cynically trying to manipulate adult fans nostalgia. (This can totally work on me, though. I am all in for the Sugar and Spike relaunch.) So I assume the Matrix version will be back at some point - Simply because the Superman books were incredibly popular when she was a major player, and DC will figure that plenty of people will have fond memories of that time period. Letting a property lie fallow for a bit and then bringing it back can (Often!) result in huge returns over a long time (ala Green Lantern) or at least huge short-term sales (Like the Superman's cousin version of Supergirl, which was a huge hit in the mid '00s.... for a year or so.)
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Sept 26, 2015 15:44:39 GMT -5
It isn't 'convenient short-hand' or anything else to say that Identity Crisis is a tribute to the Silver Age. That is outright stated in the introduction. No one means the tone when they talk about going back to the Silver Age. They mean unnecessarily bringing back elements or characters that may not fit in a modern context. What DC was doing before the reboot was largely trying to be a gritty version of the Silver Age. That they completely misunderstood the era and even failed to realize that certain things weren't even from that period just compounded the problem. Thankfully just from the fact that the reboot was supposed to get rid of things that weren't working that particular issue isn't as big a deal as it was during the previous decade, but it won't go away completely until the current batch of editors is replaced.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Sept 26, 2015 16:24:30 GMT -5
Issue 6 Trust FundWe open in the middle of a fight between Supergirl and Rampage. Throwing punches while flying is apparently disorienting for Supergirl, because she flies them into a river and passes out underwater. Rampage, looking a little worse for wear, so Supergirl must have put up a fight, climbs out of the water with no concern for Supergirl's well being and starts chasing a woman driving down the highway. In Leesburg, Superman arrives and starts repairing some of the damage the fight had been causing. Dick Malvern, who was introduced the previous issue, is impressed but soon convulses in pain from an unknown condition while Buzz watches him. We cut to the past in the Danvers' home. Linda is helping with the dishes, but she and her mother are arguing over Sylvia's desire to set her up on a blind date. Fred starts complaining that Linda is going back to her old confrontational ways after being the 'perfect daughter' since being saved by Supergirl, and it devolves into a shouting contest with Linda storming out before she accidentally blurts out her secret. Elsewhere, Kitty Faulkner, a minor character from STAR LABS, is going over business with her colleague Christine Bruckner. It quickly becomes apparent that the two women are romantically involved. At the Daily Planet, Clark discovers that Kitty is under investigation for stealing funds from STAR and decides that Superman had better warn her. Linda sulks in a park after the fight with her parents, and the boy from issue 4 comes over to her and starts talking about strangers and how even people in the same family can be strangers. Linda agrees and mentions how keeping secrets can do that before she realizes that she's talking to a stranger herself. Then the boy disappears and Dick Malvern shows up. They talk and bond a little before Dick starts complaining about his father and about how people can do horrible things with the best of intentions, giving killing in the name of god as an example. Back at the plot, Kitty finds out about the investigation and quickly realizes that it was Chris who stole the money and used her private information to frame her. Unfortunately for Chris, Kitty has a super-powered alias, Rampage. We finally return to where we were at the beginning with Supergirl waking up and flying out of the river before she drowns. Superman catches up with Rampage and tries to reason with her, but she hits him so hard he lands back in town. Rampage catches up to Chris' car and forces her to jump out of it before Supergirl arrives. However she does no better than Superman did. Rampage is about to smash Chris when Superman grabs her arms. After reasoning fails again Superman decides to just let Rampage at Chris, to everyone's shock. He reasons that since they can't protect her 24/7 Rampage will get her eventually and this is more merciful. In the end Rampage can't go through with murder, which is what Superman prayed would happen. Later, Kitty is still in trouble because of after it became clear that she wouldn't kill Chris any chance of a confession went out the window, but Supergirl decides to pull a Batman to force a confession and all's well that end's well. Superman and Supergirl have a heart to heart. Both used questionable methods in ending this issue's conflict, her interrogation and his 'she's all yours' line, but Supergirl reveals that she saw Superman shield Chris at superspeed, confirming her faith in him. He is worried and asks why she chose to base herself in Leesburg, and she brushes him off. Back at her apartment, Linda tells her mother that she trusts her and that she can set up the blind date, but also that she should wait because there might be another guy she likes. Dick is taking pills to help with his condition when Buzz comes to offer help. My thoughts: We come to a turning point with this issue, where the personal life of Linda Danvers becomes more interesting than the battles Supergirl fights in. The merger and the possibility that Supergirl may have stolen Linda's life add an intriguing layer of tension to the family squabbles. While nothing about it was bad, and after Buzz and Luthor Supergirl can empathize with what Kitty was going through, even the 'trying to kill your ex-lover' part, that connection wasn't explored enough. It looks to me like this story largely served as an excuse to feature Superman with his classic powers once in the series before the electic powers thing started. It's good that they went 5 issues without him, but it's still nice to see the Superman/Supergirl friendship. Overall, great side-stuff, and an ok main plot. B-
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Sept 26, 2015 17:37:02 GMT -5
Since I'm likely not going to be able to post for about a week, here's another review, though not of the next issue. At Mary Fawcett's house, her disappearances when she becomes Mary Marvel have become too much for her parents and she is effectively grounded. In response she runs away from home and catches a train to Leesburg. In Leesburg, Fred and his cop-buddies are leaving a bar at 2 AM when Supergirl shows up and reprimands them. Sylvia had called Linda because she was worried about Fred being out so late, not knowing that she had called 1-800 Supergirl. Fred and the others are drunk, but Lenny,, the most responsible of the bunch, is sober. Supergirl flies Fred's car home and goes to get a good night's sleep herself. The next morning, Mary is sitting on a bench in Leesburg wondering what to do now when Linda and Mattie find her. Linda talks to her since she has experience fighting with her parents, and the three decide to go to the mall together. Back at Mary's home the police are beginning to search for her and Captain Marvel is conducting his own search. Buzz is somehow preventing someone I don't know from finding her magically. At the mall, Mary wanders off from Linda and Mattie and is admiring some displayed jewelry when Lenny, the responsible cop from earlier, demands to speak with her. Linda and Mattie have noticed her disappearance and agree that she's in some sort of trouble at home. There's a flash of lightning and Lenny is running back into the mall, fearing for his life. Mary Marvel crashes through a window, screaming at him. He shoots her, only for the bullts to bounce off her and force Linda to catch them before they hit Mattie. Linda disappears and soon Supergirl enters the mall to restrain Mary. She convinces the younger hero to bring the matter to the local police. At the police station, Mary explains how she 'saw' Lenny attempting to sexually assault her civilian self and how after the girl escaped she intervened. Because she can't reveal her secret identity her story isn't very convincing. Lenny explains that he saw a girl Mary's size shoplifting, though he doesn't know if it was the same girl because he only saw her from the back. When he started to pat her down to see if she had any stolen merchandise she reacted like he as groping her, kicked him, and ran away. Then Mary Marvel attacked him. He wants Marvel in jail for assaulting an officer. Fred explains that because there are a lot of witnesses to Mary attacking Lenny but no witnesses to what he did, the case seems open and shut against her. Supergirl is torn. On the one hand she is sure that Mary isn't lying. On the other hand she knows that Lenny is a god cop who once took a bunch of bullets for her father. Mary is furious that Supergirl insists on her going through 'procedures' and flies through another closed window (she's gonna owe Leesburg a lot of money at this rate). Supergirl flies after her, saying a terrible line about how everything is subjective, and they start fighting, breaking the window at the mall yet again. Eventually, through their dialogue, they realize that they're both fighting the girl they met earlier in the day. This time, instead of Supergirl bringing Mary Marvel to the police station, Linda brings Mary Fawcett. We get a brief aside about how Mattie was stuck waiting at the mall for 2 hours when Linda disappeared, before Fred comes back to explain the situation. He wants it all settled quietly, since this sort of charge can ruin a person even if it isn't true. Now that she's in her civilian form, her case against Lenny is stronger, but since they now know that she ran away from home it might be possible that she misinterpreted what Lenny was doing because of stress. And perhaps Lenny was overly aggressive because of the stress of his divorce. Neither side is willing to back down. Mary's parents pick her up, and Lenny keeps telling himself that he would never do such a thing until he starts crying. My thoughts: This was an 'after-school special' story, which are usually pretty bad. I liked seeing more of Supergirl's growing relationship with the police, and the multiple point of view angle adds a bit more depth than there would have been if it was just a story about a superhero getting sexually assaulted. The thing is, neither hero comes out well here. While her actions are understandable, Mary Marvel still comes across as an irresponsible hothead between the running away, the assault, and all the property damage she causes. An Supergirl has that one line about 'everything being subjective' that makes her look like a stooge of the authorities when otherwise she's being perfectly reasonable. This story gets a C A Life in the DayIn this backup we start with Linda finishing the painting of a Supergirl lamp she sculpted when Mattie bursts in, causing Linda to have to react fast to catch the lamp before it falls and breaks. Mattie has a day off to go to a concert, but Linda has no money to pay for it and refuses to borrow more from Mattie. Mattie agrees to drive Linda to the mall so she can have her sculptures sold. At the church the reverend offers Sylvia the chance to join the clergy herself. Sylvi is flattered but isn't seriously considering it. Mattie gets pulled over for speeding by Fred while on the way to the mall. At the mall, Cutter is bored covering non-supervillain related assignments and is delighted to see Linda there, as she's 'his favorite loonie-magnet.' The person running the art sale doesn't want Linda's scuptures, since they are usually demonic and don't sell. But this time Linda has brought more upbeat ones that are more marketable. Cutter comes up to the girls, and they agree to let him buy them burgers. Buzz is also at the mall, and he notices them. He remarks to himself that it is nice to see Linda out and about like normal people, before forcing a dog that barked at him to 'play' dead with his magic. Sylvia runs into him and he says that he saw Linda and that shelooked just like the pictures Sylvia showed him. At the burger place, Mattie finds Cutter cute 'in a freak sort of way.' They go back to see how Linda's sculpture's sold. When they see that they're all gone Linda assumes they were shoplifted, but in reality one woman bought them all and suddenly Linda has a lot of spending money. The woman who bought them all turns out to be Sylvia, who gives them as gifts to her husband and friends. Even Buzz ends up with the Supergirl lamp. My thoughts: This was much better than the main story. I said in the last review that Linda's everyday life was becoming more interesting than the Supergirl fights, and the same month that issue came out they also released this story that was nothing but her everyday life. Resuming the sculpting business we were previously only told about. Connecting with Mattie and Cutter. Dealing with paying her bills. You'd never know that the main character even had a secret identity just from this story. And Buzz's presence adds tension. His conversation with Sylvia leaves no doubt that he's the 'blind date.' I know he saved your life, but can't you see how creepy he is? To me the big weakness of comics is how short they are. It means we have to get to the action so quickly that we don't get enough moments like these, of the protagonists just being themselves so we can see what they fight for when they do go into action. My verdict for this short backup-A
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Post by Hoosier X on Sept 27, 2015 17:17:36 GMT -5
Identity Crisis is "a tribute to the Silver Age" only for people who either 1) don't know when the Silver Age was; or 2) don't know what a tribute is.
Or possibly both.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Sept 27, 2015 19:21:12 GMT -5
It isn't 'convenient short-hand' or anything else to say that Identity Crisis is a tribute to the Silver Age. That is outright stated in the introduction. The introduction is wrong, then. Whoever wrote it doesn't have even a basic, working knowledge of comics history. What edition was the introduction in? I might start writing for Comics Should Be Good again pretty soon, and I'm sure I can get a good blog post out of mocking whoever wrote that little gem in public. Honestly, that's true of a lot of people who work in comics. If it ain't Kurt Busiek or Mark Waid talking, make sure you double check anything that any writer, artist, or editor says about comics. I don't think you NEED to know this stuff to work in comics, though... but if you're writing an introduction to a company product, you should spend 30 second and do some $%^&ing research. Edit: And I actually have that Supergirl/Mary Marvel issue! It counts as a team-up book for my collection. I'll read it when I get home. Most of those '90s PLUS books were surprisingly good. I also have a Supergirl/Prysm Double Shot from a couple years later.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Sept 29, 2015 20:28:21 GMT -5
On the upside, I quite liked Blevins cartoony-yet-illustrative style. I need to read the non-Bill Sienkiewicz New Mutants some day. And there were some cool design choices, and quite a few effective "page turns" On the downside... Yeah, this is the one where Mary Marvel gets molested-in-passing by a cop. Back when I first joined the CBR boards, there was a big to-do when Joe Rice threatened to push Peter David on the ground (or something) because of this issue. Peter David freaked out - note that several members of this community have had negative online interaction with Mr. David - there was a big back and forth... I'm not saying you should threaten physical violence, but this story really does blow. I appreciate CoD restraint in only giving it a "C". The major problems: 1) It is extremely hard not to trivialize sexual assualt when it's part of a story about women parading around in their 'jammies and shooting lasers out of their eyes. "Abuse of power by authority figures" is a fine topic, but some things are best approached at a distance with symbolism and metaphor rather than having a dude try to touch Mary Marvel in the swimsuit area. Superhero comics should work on a bigger canvas than the ABC Afterschool special. 2) Moreover, superhero books do not deal well with moral ambiguity. IF your going to tell this story, it's much better to end with the perp punched in the face and thrown in jail, rather than play it as "He said, she said" and end with no real ending. 3) If you're going to write a story about sexual assualt in comics (which is probably a mistake) in an ambiguous manner (hereby compounding the mistake) you should at least make it actually ambiguous, and not have a character with the wisdom of Athena - right? S I forget? Hera, Artemis, Z I forget?, Athena, Minvera - on one side plus make it clear that the cop did "bad touch" her AND GOT AWAY WITH IT in the last panel. 4) Mary Marvel is a terrible choice for this story - The Marvel's Universe have always been more comedically stylized than realistic - David is trying to tell stories with them that they are (to put in mildly) not designed for. in his defense of this issue Peter David calls her "so Silver Agey" which is, obviously, part of a conspiracy to drive me nuts since Mary Marvel made exactly 0 appearances between 1953 and 1973. Conversely, I didn't have as much problem with how Mary was acting - Although I suspect I've just built up a tolerance to "superheros act stupid and fight" scenes... And I don't think I can defend it as good writing. But I think the root problem is that the story shouldn't have been told at all, so the characters had to be made damn near unrecognisable to make them fit. But I liked the back-up story, too! I'm not too familiar with Jennifer Graves but she has a cool kind of Becky Cloonan-ish style. And I'm always tickled when corporate creators stick in plugs for indy comics. "Gray Bullets!" Heh! It was a nice, upbeat, character piece after the terrible, downbeat, should-not-have-been-editorially-approved-what-the-HELL-were-they-thinking main story. Still, I'm glad I reread it. When I make my list of the the worst team-up books ever, this is a strong contender.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Oct 5, 2015 16:44:32 GMT -5
Issue 7 Art HistorySupergirl is in Linda's studio, trying to find out more about the girl she merged with by studying her freaky sculptures. Her parents knock on the door, and she switches to Linda's form to open it. However, she forgets to button her shirt to cover her costume. Fortunately the Danvers assume that it's just a t-shirt since Linda was always a Supergirl fan. Sylvia wants to invite Linda to dinner. Fred finds an old sculpture of Linda's, and it jogs her memory. Years ago that statue had won her a contest at the local church, and she had given it to the reverend's wife, Mrs. Meeke afterwards. The next day Linda went to the reverend's house to visit Mrs. Meeke, but instead witnessed the reverend beating her (it is implied to death) while screaming that he has had enough of her lies. Linda ran away in horror. Afterwards the town was under the impression that Mrs. Meeke just ran out on her husband and Sylvia in particular feels bad for the reverend. Linda wanted to confront him, but he has gotten rid of all blood-stained items that could serve as evidence against him. Back in the present, Fred mentions how proud he and Sylvia were of Linda when she won that contest. Linda says she'll be happy to come and asks if she can bring a guy along. Sylvia is disappointed because she wanted it to be a private family dinner and because she really wants to set Linda up with Buzz, but Fred is happy that Linda is thinking about dating as long as it isn't 'one of those weirdos' she used to hang out with. When they leave Supergirl is relieved to switch back to her blonde form, and wonders why Linda never told anyone about what she had seen. She then comes across a sculpture of Buzz's head and has another flashback. Linda was going through a crisis of faith after seeing the reverend probably murder his wife. This is when Buzz found her. He played on her anger at the reverend to attack religion in general. Though at first she defended her faith and was frightened of him, eventually he was able to convince her to give his group a chance. In her vulnerable mental state she eventually came to embrace his worldview, abandoning the religion of her mother for the rebelliousness of the chaos cult. Linda's anger at the reverend only grew, and when, at least a year later, Buzz brings up how the town continues to worship the reverend despite his being as bad as any other criminal, Linda yelled out that someone should kill him. Back in the present, Supergirl thinks to herself that Linda never had a chance. In a rage she throws Buzz's head out of the studio. As they drive away, Sylvia is still disappointed that Linda won't give Buzz a chance, and Fred wants her to be happy that Linda's even giving them the time of day. Supergirl is about to leave herself when she finds a statue of demons writhing in agony, triggering yet another flashback. Buzz had brought a van into the forest with a surprise for Linda. She was horrified to see that the surprise is two people bound and in their underwear, apparently having been caught sleeping together. One is the reverend and the other is a woman who had bullied Linda in the past. The woman threatened Linda, but Buzz, to Linda's horror, pulled out knives. Supergirl flies over the ocean and throws the statue to the bottom of the sea, crying and thinking that the evil of Linda's past should rest there forever. She then goes home and calls Dick Malverne to invite him to dinner with her parents. Except Buzz causes his car to break down and his phone to stop working, so he can't get there and can't call to explain. The Danvers are less than impressed. A package arrives for Linda. Buzz sent her back the demon statue from the bottom of the ocean. My thoughts: An action-lite issue, but pretty dense with information. We learn that Linda didn't join up with Buzz for the kicks. Once she was like a little Sylvia who could sculpt. Seeing authority figures do horrible things is tough for anyone, let alone a child or teenager who often feels that there is no one to turn to afterwards. Linda turned to Buzz because she thought he was the only one who would listen to her. It also explains why she fell out with her parents. As she lost faith she couldn't stand that they couldn't see what Reverend Meeke really was and also lost faith in their judgment. It's really sad to realize that when Fred takes out the contest statue, what he's really doing is trying to recapture the last moment he, Sylvia, and Linda were a happy family. This is the first time in the series he makes a genuine effort to reconcile with his daughter. We also see that even outside of her crumbling family Linda had problems. The woman that was with the reverend at the end threatened that the 'next time' will be much worse. She definitely bullied Linda, and I think her dialogue means that she would beat Linda up, probably at school. Again giving Linda more reason to hang with Buzz's cult. The question is, who killed Meeke and the bully, because the murders weren't shown? Linda was horrified at both the sight of them bound and a the sight of the knives, but now it is clear that in issue 2 we saw the immediate aftermath of the murders, where she was thrilled. I'd rather believe that Buzz did the deed and Linda just got a sense of relief from watching the people she hated the most die. Though the scene in issue 2 might imply that it was sex and not murder that got her excited. This issue was about showing that Linda was a victim too and that therefore there is room for redemption. Making her a murderer would undercut that, and at no point in the rest of the series does Linda ever think of herself as a murderer during this period even when beating herself up about her actions. Since by this point I prefer the everyday stuff to the fights, I don't mind the lack of action. After a couple of lighter issues this one not only goes dark again but pulls no emotional punches. Linda was a seriously messed up person before Supergirl came along, and now has to live with the guilt. Is it any wonder that she would prefer to identify as Supergirl? A-
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