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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 6, 2015 13:18:23 GMT -5
My point is Alan Moore has built his career using characters that aren't his...but doesn't act graciously when his own creations are used. Lewis Carroll, L. Frank Baum and J.M. Barrie were all very gracious about Lost Girls, were they? And I read Before Watchmen. I can see why Moore wasn't very gracious about it. A cynical cash grab that produced a buttload of terrible comics. (I admit I liked Silk Spectre quit a bit.)
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Dec 6, 2015 13:22:07 GMT -5
My point is Alan Moore has built his career using characters that aren't his...but doesn't act graciously when his own creations are used. Which of his creation are you refering to? He had no objection in the original Hellblazer title, he actually helped pick Jamie Delano as its writer. Which of his Watchmen characters has he actually created, and which one of htose was used in a creative way in Before Watchmen? Which of his self unapproved cinematographic adaptation added anything interesting to the original material?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 13:22:17 GMT -5
Lewis Carroll, L. Frank Baum and J.M. Barrie were all very gracious about Lost Girls, were they? They're all long dead. What's your point? Should people wait for Alan Moore to expire before they use his material?
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Dec 6, 2015 13:24:15 GMT -5
His point is there's a good chance they would have disapproved of it if still alive, yet Lost Girls is an absolute masterpiece, while however pleasant Before Watchmen is, it isn't.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 13:30:19 GMT -5
His point is there's a good chance they would have disapproved of it if still alive, yet Lost Girls is an absolute masterpiece, while however pleasant Before Watchmen is, it isn't. Hard to describe it as a masterpiece when its very contents can't be detailed here along with sample pages. It is positively revolting to some. Again, my point is, while Before Watchmen was in its planning stages, Moore was spitting vitriol, he disagreed with the very concept of 'his creation' being used that way. He didn't care if it was done well, he didn't want it done at all. Yet, he happily writes a 'masterpiece' about anal sex, rape, bestiality...using characters that aren't his but he availed himself to all the same.
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 6, 2015 13:46:16 GMT -5
Lewis Carroll, L. Frank Baum and J.M. Barrie were all very gracious about Lost Girls, were they? They're all long dead. What's your point? That they are long dead. You need to go back and re-read what you wrote where you criticized Moore for not being gracious. That would be a good point if you had an example of Carroll, Baum and Barrie being gracious about the later use of their characters.
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 6, 2015 13:47:31 GMT -5
So, Jez, what was your favorite Before Watchmen series?
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Dec 6, 2015 13:49:14 GMT -5
His point is there's a good chance they would have disapproved of it if still alive, yet Lost Girls is an absolute masterpiece, while however pleasant Before Watchmen is, it isn't. Hard to describe it as a masterpiece when it's very contents can't be detailed here along with sample pages. It is positively revolting to some. Again, my point is, while Before Watchmen was in its planning stages, Moore was spitting vitriol, he disagreed with the very concept of 'his creation' being used that way. He didn't care if it was done well, he didn't want it done at all. Yet, he happily writes a 'masterpiece' about anal sex, rape, bestiality...using characters that aren't his but he availed himself to all the same. There's no cause and effect between it not being available here because of our posting rules and it not being the lauded masterpiece it is. But aren't you the hypocrite finding revolting such topics here while self admiting enjoying it elsewhere : Again you miss the point about his using of said characters : it is the dexterity and novelty of its use that is exciting. However enjoyable Befor Watchmen might have been, Moore's bjection to it is perfectly understandable since Wtachmen's trade publication screwed him over and is the begining of his ire towards DC. He accepted to work with them again, and then they screwed him over again with ABC. I'd like to see you rejoice over the publication by your nemesis of material cashing on your past success, when asked the question!
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 6, 2015 13:58:16 GMT -5
Just off hand, The only creator that I can think of that created something new and exciting was Mike Baron. He came up with original concepts like the Badger and Nexus. Other than him, I only see Spider-girl, The Image guys with carbon copies of well known teams and other blatant rip off concepts. ... That's borderline insulting, especially considering your avatar picture. Or maybe it's just because you didn't specify any context to that statement and meant one very restricted. "Something new" also should have scales : Alan Moore's Lost Girls using 24 different innovative comic book storytelling techniques, that's a huge accomplishement (he only too 15 year or more to create the damn thing, go figure), Acme Novelty Library, Bone, all great accomplishements, different scales. EDIT : Oops... I forgot in which thread I was, hahaha! Good one Icctrombone Allow me to retort- 1.Please notice the words I put in bold print. 2. Borderline insulting- why would it be? You didn't create anything that I'm aware of. 3.Alan Moore , while a great writer didn't create Alice, Dorothy or most of the characters he is famous for writing. 4. The "something new" is a response to the comment made about copying Kirby's characters instead of creating new ones. 5. Why does it matter what thread you're in? Maybe it's better for you to be less abrasive in your posts. Now Mrp has named a few good examples of new books that are original.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Dec 6, 2015 14:02:12 GMT -5
Hey, ICC, it mattered in what thread because I forgot it was about characters : as debated above, Moore's main merits lies in his storytelling, be it with OG or not characters. It also matters as it is the purpose of this thread to voice your feelings blutly, without need for criticism, therefore I was not in tone with it, hence the EDIT and apology
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 14:04:02 GMT -5
There's no cause and effect between it not being available here because of our posting rules and it not being the lauded masterpiece it is. But aren't you the hypocrite finding revolting such topics here while self admiting enjoying it elsewhere : Apparently you don't understand that what I found revolting is Moore's double standards when it comes to use of characters. Others don't like Moore's work. In case you didn't know, the book isn't carried everywhere and I've heard it's been banned in certain countries. Carrie the Queen of Escapology does have disturbing themes like snuff murders, indecent assault etc...but its creator, Artdude, doesn't go on tantrums like Moore does. I'm also a fan of the 3d rendering that is employed...usually only in stories like this. If you are trying to embarass me by scraping the bottom of the barrel with a screencap, you are clearly wasting time. I admit to like adult comics, but doing something with a horse is not my cup of tea. Neither is rape. Something pervasive in Moore's stories.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Dec 6, 2015 14:12:57 GMT -5
Have you actually read Lost Girls??? There's no problem in liking adult material, but there is in dismissing it without having read it. Oh, and Carrie TQOE features rape...
Again, there's no double standards : he gets asked the question "what do you think about the publisher who has screwed you over and over publishing new watchmen comics?", how the hell would you answer??? Of course he's not gonna see it from the sunny side, put yourself in his shoes for a second. History has proven him right in his suspicions as well, over and over. Before he got screwed over, he actually supported DC doing Hellblazer, then they divorced. If you divorced your husband because he screwed you over, would you still get him a recommandation letter for a job or hype him to single friends?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 14:14:44 GMT -5
Have you actually read Lost Girls??? There's no problem in liking adult material, but there is in dismissing it without having read it. Oh, and Carrie TQOE features rape... Yes I have, dealer owns it.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Dec 6, 2015 14:23:00 GMT -5
oh, so you added an edits suggesting I'm trying to embarass you with quote of you enjoying pornography? Are you for real? I'm the one who started professing my appreciation of pornography with Lost Girls, how could I embarass you for likeing porn when I start advocating a porn comic?! I was just asking you about your double standards critiquing Lost Girls' pronography when you profess love for the genre yourself. Then you specified the borders of your tolerance within the genre, fine, even if not consistant on the rape theme as Carrie has rapes featured.
You also edited with some people not liking Moore... So? Some people also don't like Kirby or the Mona Lisa, what does it say. Of course Lost Girls is banned in some countries : some countries have pornography still illegal! Yet, is the mere pornographic condition of some work preventing it from being a masterpiece? If you think so, I strongly disagree, with Lost Girls as evidence. Again, have you read it?
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 6, 2015 14:23:37 GMT -5
My point is Alan Moore has built his career using characters that aren't his...but doesn't act graciously when his own creations are used. Yes. Or better yet not screw him out of his creations by using legal tricks.
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