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Post by MDG on Oct 23, 2018 8:56:08 GMT -5
Isn't it really a question of how the art was intended to be presented?
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 23, 2018 9:35:57 GMT -5
I’m not going back to b&w TV.
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Post by brutalis on Oct 23, 2018 10:30:17 GMT -5
I’m not going back to b&w TV. Then you are missing out on some great television series! Have Gun will Travel. Rawhide. Dragnet. 1st seasons of Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Lost in Space, Wild Wild West, Twilight Zone, F Troop, Bewitched, the Munsters, Addams Family, The Avengers, Dick Van Dyke, the Honeymooners, I love Lucy, the Lone Ranger just to mention a handful. Not to mention all the great classic movies like the universal Horror, Marx Bros, 3 Stooges, Abbott and Costello and so many more. If color television's everywhere were to suddenly break I could and would still watch in black and white. Color helps but it isn't what makes a show or movie watchable. IMO
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Post by rberman on Oct 23, 2018 10:53:43 GMT -5
I’m not going back to b&w TV. Then you are missing out on some great television series! Have Gun will Travel. Rawhide. Dragnet. 1st seasons of Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Lost in Space, Wild Wild West, Twilight Zone, F Troop, Bewitched, the Munsters, Addams Family, The Avengers, Dick Van Dyke, the Honeymooners, I love Lucy, the Lone Ranger just to mention a handful. Not to mention all the great classic movies like the universal Horror, Marx Bros, 3 Stooges, Abbott and Costello and so many more. If color television's everywhere were to suddenly break I could and would still watch in black and white. Color helps but it isn't what makes a show or movie watchable. IMO The question is whether, if forced to choose, you'd go with "the set of B&W movies and TV" or "the set of color movies and TV." I'd have to go with color despite all the notable material lost with that choice. YMMV.
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 23, 2018 17:28:34 GMT -5
They still show b&w movies on regular color Tv's. I always stop to watch Casablanca when it's on.
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Post by Duragizer on Oct 23, 2018 17:54:40 GMT -5
Then you are missing out on some great television series! Have Gun will Travel. Rawhide. Dragnet. 1st seasons of Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Lost in Space, Wild Wild West, Twilight Zone, F Troop, Bewitched, the Munsters, Addams Family, The Avengers, Dick Van Dyke, the Honeymooners, I love Lucy, the Lone Ranger just to mention a handful. Not to mention all the great classic movies like the universal Horror, Marx Bros, 3 Stooges, Abbott and Costello and so many more. If color television's everywhere were to suddenly break I could and would still watch in black and white. Color helps but it isn't what makes a show or movie watchable. IMO The question is whether, if forced to choose, you'd go with "the set of B&W movies and TV" or "the set of color movies and TV."
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Post by Phil Maurice on Oct 23, 2018 19:46:06 GMT -5
They still show b&w movies on regular color Tv's. And they still make them as well. I literally just finished watching Control (2007), the Ian Curtis biopic, and the decision to shoot it in stark B&W was ingenious. I can't imagine it working nearly as well in color.
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Post by beccabear67 on Oct 23, 2018 19:55:05 GMT -5
Control, Raging Bull, Rumble Fish and The Last Picture Show... four great modern movies made in b&w for good reason.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Oct 24, 2018 6:56:23 GMT -5
Grew up in Hertfordshire, England where there were boxes upon boxes of comics lying around, including the weekly black & white UK reprints of the time. Had a number of these, this was the first one I remember rifling through.
Can't imagine my Marvel Team-Up 65 & 66 which featured Captain Britain... in b&w As you know, I grew up not far from you in Buckinghamshire, and my earliest comic reading experiences were black and white reprints of Marvel and DC like that too. However, they featured artwork that was drawn for colour comics, but presented in black & white. Comics that are intended to remain black & white are a very different thing and the art utilises spot blacks, hatching and shading in a very different way to colour comics. Drawing in black & white really is a different kind of skill. That's why colourised black & white art often looks murky and kind of wrong (a la V for Vendetta or From Hell).
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Post by rberman on Oct 24, 2018 8:06:16 GMT -5
Control, Raging Bull, Rumble Fish and The Last Picture Show... four great modern movies made in b&w for good reason. Also Schindler's List and The Hustler.
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Post by kirby101 on Oct 24, 2018 8:12:39 GMT -5
The Academy Award winning The Artist was also B&W.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 24, 2018 18:17:10 GMT -5
Black & white was the true test of any cartoonist or comic artist. If you looked good without the colors, you had something. Coloring enhanced mood and made things pop out; but, the underlying structure was a big deal. Coloring could save bad art. Just look at Liefeld and some of the other Image guys in black & white and see how much work the colorist did to give dimension to their work (Liefeld especially). Then compare to a Toth or Kubert or Heath.
The Filipino community looked fantastic in black & white; same with the Argentines and Spanish artists.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Oct 24, 2018 18:58:42 GMT -5
As you know, I grew up not far from you in Buckinghamshire, and my earliest comic reading experiences were black and white reprints of Marvel and DC like that too. However, they featured artwork that was drawn for colour comics, but presented in black & white. Yep, and that ruined them somewhat...I didn't understand why they needed to be reprinted in weekly B&W editions when the actual colour versions were also available...I have loads with cover prices of 9d straight up to 20p. Dave Stevens looks good either way. Well, in the 40s, 50s and early 60s, the proper U.S. comics weren't officially available in the UK. It's my understanding that they used to be brought over as ballast sometimes on container ships and sold cheaply to a few independent British newsagent shops who would stock them. You wouldn't find them in most newsagents though and supply was very spotty. Marvel and DC therefore began publishing their own comics in Britain (as in, printed in Britain and created in Britain, even if they were using American stories). These were, like almost all UK comics in the 60s, 70s and 80s, black and white and of a much larger, magazine-type size. I don't know much about why Marvel in particular printed copies of U.S. comics with UK pricing on them. They were clearly intended for the UK marketplace, but that marketplace already had its own ongoing and very successful reprint series going on. I'm sure tingramretro would be able to shed a lot more light on this subject than I can. All I will say is that, original, colour American comics -- even with UK prices printed on them -- were much, much rarer than the regular UK black & white reprints well into the 80s. None of the major newsagent chains or magazine stockists of the era, like WHSmiths, Woolworths, or Martins, carried them; they only stocked the official British reprints. In my experience, it was only the dingey, out of the way newsagents, up some back street somewhere, that stocked real, colour American comics (and even then, it was always alongside the much more common British reprints).
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 25, 2018 18:18:49 GMT -5
Black & white was the true test of any cartoonist or comic artist. If you looked good without the colors, you had something. Coloring enhanced mood and made things pop out; but, the underlying structure was a big deal. Coloring could save bad art. Just look at Liefeld and some of the other Image guys in black & white and see how much work the colorist did to give dimension to their work (Liefeld especially). Then compare to a Toth or Kubert or Heath. The Filipino community looked fantastic in black & white; same with the Argentines and Spanish artists.Couldmt agree more with this. One of the highlights of House of Mystery, House of Secrets, Tales of the Zombie, Vampirella.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Oct 26, 2018 7:13:31 GMT -5
All I will say is that, original, colour American comics -- even with UK prices printed on them -- were much, much rarer than the regular UK black & white reprints well into the 80s. None of the major newsagent chains or magazine stockists of the era, like WHSmiths, Woolworths, or Martins, carried them; they only stocked the official British reprints. In my experience, it was only the dingey, out of the way newsagents, up some back street somewhere, that stocked real, colour American comics (and even then, it was always alongside the much more common British reprints). My uncles were the big buyers in the 70s and 80s before my brother joined in. Their main stomping ground was an area that spanned several blocks in Edmonton in the London Borough of Enfield. There were several newsagents that stocked US comics so between them, it was possible to get a generous helping. I think Chuck at Mile High estimated England got about 3%-4% of an average print run...and he's one of the few dealers who sells UK variants at higher prices. I've seen current UK dealers do quite the opposite...so I quite enjoy picking up 40 year old books with 12p on them, as recent as last month.
Yeah, somewhere like Enfield or central London probably had much better availability of U.S. comics than we did out in the sticks in Buckinghamshire. But I'm pretty sure it would've only been independent newsagent shops that stocked them, and not the big majors like WHSmiths or Martins.
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