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Post by brutalis on May 8, 2021 7:24:03 GMT -5
The Defenders will always be Doctor Strange, Namor , the Hulk and Valkrie, for me. You forgot Nighthawk brudder of mine. It ain't worth Defending without some poorly written mis-characterization of Bat-lite on the team by Marvel writers! And no Surfer in Silver zipping in and out guest starring to making Defenders a ridiculously powerful team of individual's who function best as solo rather than as a team? It was Val and Kyle who started making them a valid "team" united in a common good for working together. Before they joined, the founding members were more likely to have bigger fights amongst themselves than the villains they confronted.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 8, 2021 7:43:03 GMT -5
The Defenders will always be Doctor Strange, Namor , the Hulk and Valkrie, for me. You forgot Nighthawk brudder of mine. It ain't worth Defending without some poorly written mis-characterization of Bat-lite on the team by Marvel writers! And no Surfer in Silver zipping in and out guest starring to making Defenders a ridiculously powerful team of individual's who function best as solo rather than as a team? It was Val and Kyle who started making them a valid "team" united in a common good for working together. Before they joined, the founding members were more likely to have bigger fights amongst themselves than the villains they confronted. The infighting was what made it fun. Sorry, we have to agree to disagree. Nhawk is a sucky character. His appearance could never sell a book.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on May 8, 2021 9:12:20 GMT -5
If the name of the comic was “Green Arrow’s Pal, Jimmy Olsen,” Jimmy would be dead by the second or third page of the first issue. Just sayin’. I would have liked a Green Arrow’s Pal Rick Jones crossover with those results early on. Would have saved him soiling many Marvel comic titles later on.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 8, 2021 10:27:19 GMT -5
Some silly opinions on the Defenders being expressed here; the core team consists of: Hulk Sword Girl Dumb Magician Birdnose and Cat-Girl Sometimes it was Smart-Friend Magician
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Post by badwolf on May 8, 2021 20:32:37 GMT -5
I'm going to start reading the Defenders Omnibus tonight.
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Post by berkley on May 9, 2021 17:33:18 GMT -5
I could have done without the Hulk, to be honest and even Doctor Strange, who, though a favourite character, I always preferred in his own "universe", away from the superhero world. But really it was more the concept and especially the writers that made The Defenders a special book through much of the 70s: Englehart, then Gerber, and finally Kraft. So I could probably be pretty flexible about which characters were on the team at any given time as long as the writing was to my taste.
I kind of wish Kraft had kept Moon Knight on as a member or perhaps just as a recurring guest-member: even though not really cut out to be a team character, Kraft did a good job with him, especially in conjunction with the Giffen/Royer artwork. OTOH, he totally wasted a good character in Red Guardian, of whom better use should have been made after Gerber did such a good job with her.
Which is of course a long-standing problem with ongoing superhero comics: I can say my favourite Defenders characters are such and such but what's the point of wishing they were on the team if the writer doesn't "get" them (i.e. see them exactly the same way I do!)? Red Guardian is a good example - Gerber brought her in and made her interesting and a strong addition to the book, but Kraft obviously didn't know what to do with her and promptly wrote her out of the series.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 9, 2021 17:55:25 GMT -5
I could have done without the Hulk, to be honest and even Doctor Strange, who, though a favourite character, I always preferred in his own "universe", away from the superhero world. But really it was more the concept and especially the writers that made The Defenders a special book through much of the 70s: Englehart, then Gerber, and finally Kraft. So I could probably be pretty flexible about which characters were on the team at any given time as long as the writing was to my taste. I kind of wish Kraft had kept Moon Knight on as a member or perhaps just as a recurring guest-member: even though not really cut out to be a team character, Kraft did a good job with him, especially in conjunction with the Giffen/Royer artwork. OTOH, he totally wasted a good character in Red Guardian, of whom better use should have been made after Gerber did such a good job with her. Which is of course a long-standing problem with ongoing superhero comics: I can say my favourite Defenders characters are such and such but what's the point of wishing they were on the team if the writer doesn't "get" them (i.e. see them exactly the same way I do!)? Red Guardian is a good example - Gerber brought her in and made her interesting and a strong addition to the book, but Kraft obviously didn't know what to do with her and promptly wrote her out of the series. I'd go along with that, except this was the only place I enjoyed the Hulk. With Dr Strange, due to his power level, he always seemed to be isolated, absent or somehow neutralized, so that the others had to save the day. Even in the early appearances, like Night on Bald Mountain, Doc is taken out of the picture and Namor, Hulk and Clea (and Wong) have to rescue him, so he can block Dormammu from coming through. With the Guardians of the galaxy storyline, he is on the space ship, projecting his astral self, while the rest deal with the Badoon. I agree about Moon Knight, as he mixed well and was a quirky character that fit right in. Same with Red Guardian, which helped increased the female presence in the team, plus a different perspective on the culture.
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Post by Calidore on May 9, 2021 18:34:35 GMT -5
Given his issues, Moon Knight is pretty much a team all by himself.
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Post by berkley on May 9, 2021 20:30:19 GMT -5
Given his issues, Moon Knight is pretty much a team all by himself.
And if you believe Brian Bendis, that team is called the Avengers.
Personally I've never liked the idea that MK's multiple alter egos are a manifestation of mental illness - even though I think it was Doug Moench himself who first hinted at this, is that right?. Whoever it was, I still think it was a bad idea and a wrong turn for the character, who was much more interesting when the various personas were deliberately created and utilised for specific reasons.
I have no idea what's going on with the MK character now, though i assume that some drastic changes must have been made as he's apparently taken over the world, or something.
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Post by badwolf on May 10, 2021 9:37:50 GMT -5
I know Marlene was sometimes worried about it, but it seemed more like a character quirk than hE's tOtAllY cRaZy.
I'm well into the omnibus now. Even though neither Thomas nor Englehart are favorites of mine, it's pretty fun. I agree about Strange not quite fitting in and also think the Surfer doesn't belong. This guy is massively powerful but he's always reduced to generic "shoot energy bolts" and little else.
The book ends just before Gerber takes over, so I'm really looking forward to Vol. 2.
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Post by dbutler69 on May 10, 2021 18:18:21 GMT -5
The Defenders will always be Doctor Strange, Namor , the Hulk and Valkrie, for me. I like to think of the Silver Surfer in there, though I know that wasn't really the case because Stan the Man didn't want anyone but himself writing the Surfer.
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Post by dbutler69 on May 10, 2021 18:19:50 GMT -5
I could have done without the Hulk, to be honest and even Doctor Strange, who, though a favourite character, I always preferred in his own "universe", away from the superhero world. But really it was more the concept and especially the writers that made The Defenders a special book through much of the 70s: Englehart, then Gerber, and finally Kraft. So I could probably be pretty flexible about which characters were on the team at any given time as long as the writing was to my taste. I kind of wish Kraft had kept Moon Knight on as a member or perhaps just as a recurring guest-member: even though not really cut out to be a team character, Kraft did a good job with him, especially in conjunction with the Giffen/Royer artwork. OTOH, he totally wasted a good character in Red Guardian, of whom better use should have been made after Gerber did such a good job with her. Which is of course a long-standing problem with ongoing superhero comics: I can say my favourite Defenders characters are such and such but what's the point of wishing they were on the team if the writer doesn't "get" them (i.e. see them exactly the same way I do!)? Red Guardian is a good example - Gerber brought her in and made her interesting and a strong addition to the book, but Kraft obviously didn't know what to do with her and promptly wrote her out of the series.That's the thing. When someone asks who my favorite character is, I have to say "it depends on who's writing him".
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Post by Calidore on May 10, 2021 19:20:10 GMT -5
Given his issues, Moon Knight is pretty much a team all by himself.
Personally I've never liked the idea that MK's multiple alter egos are a manifestation of mental illness - even though I think it was Doug Moench himself who first hinted at this, is that right?. Whoever it was, I still think it was a bad idea and a wrong turn for the character, who was much more interesting when the various personas were deliberately created and utilised for specific reasons.
Different strokes there. He's not the only hero that has useful third (or more) identities, but having those identities actually be independently functioning personalities that may act unpredictably, that have to deal with each other in his mindspace, etc. is a unique and brilliant (IMO) wrinkle that opens up lots more possibilities.
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Post by badwolf on May 10, 2021 19:44:11 GMT -5
The Defenders will always be Doctor Strange, Namor , the Hulk and Valkrie, for me. I like to think of the Silver Surfer in there, though I know that wasn't really the case because Stan the Man didn't want anyone but himself writing the Surfer. I think Stan was right.
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Post by berkley on May 10, 2021 20:18:54 GMT -5
I could have done without the Hulk, to be honest and even Doctor Strange, who, though a favourite character, I always preferred in his own "universe", away from the superhero world. But really it was more the concept and especially the writers that made The Defenders a special book through much of the 70s: Englehart, then Gerber, and finally Kraft. So I could probably be pretty flexible about which characters were on the team at any given time as long as the writing was to my taste. I kind of wish Kraft had kept Moon Knight on as a member or perhaps just as a recurring guest-member: even though not really cut out to be a team character, Kraft did a good job with him, especially in conjunction with the Giffen/Royer artwork. OTOH, he totally wasted a good character in Red Guardian, of whom better use should have been made after Gerber did such a good job with her. Which is of course a long-standing problem with ongoing superhero comics: I can say my favourite Defenders characters are such and such but what's the point of wishing they were on the team if the writer doesn't "get" them (i.e. see them exactly the same way I do!)? Red Guardian is a good example - Gerber brought her in and made her interesting and a strong addition to the book, but Kraft obviously didn't know what to do with her and promptly wrote her out of the series.That's the thing. When someone asks who my favorite character is, I have to say "it depends on who's writing him".
Yeah, it's really an unspoken qualifying statement that accompanies every declaration I make about favourite comics characters or series, etc. I always say Crystal is my favourite FF character - but I'm speaking mainly of the Kirby/Lee run, along with perhaps the first 10 or 20 issues of the post-Kirby era. Moondragon, I'm speaking mainly of the Englehart Avengers. Thena, and the Eternals concept in general, strictly the Kirby series; and so on.
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