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Post by impulse on Jun 9, 2021 12:18:50 GMT -5
Yeah, I can't say for sure. I can say new Kirkman stuff tends to do well. I got one of his new # 1s a while back in the heyday of TWD in my pull list. Sold it right away for like $40. Not sure if it would have done more slabbed, but I don't have time or energy for all that.
Quick Google suggests I could have gotten double+ if I had a graded copy, but again, I am too lazy to deal with that.
Also yeah, I agree CGC probably directly impacts back issues way more than new, but that may be beneficial to the LCS who own them. More money and attention comics is better than less I hope.
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Post by tarkintino on Jun 9, 2021 13:37:12 GMT -5
Are you referring to the original X-Factor title from 1986? Yes.
The later title by Peter David was rather good (at least the first arc that I read.)
I believed the creative intentions for X-Factor were very good in re-grouping the original X-Men team (my favorite version of any X-team, which was so refreshing in that era). It started off strong, but for some reason, the quality could not be maintained.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 14:27:16 GMT -5
I understand that the sale of slabbed books does not directly go into the pockets of creators
The sale of back-issue 'raw' books does not directly go into their pockets either.
Some of the smarter creators charge more for signatures now, when they know the signing is being witnessed by CGC.
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Post by impulse on Jun 9, 2021 15:28:24 GMT -5
I understand that the sale of slabbed books does not directly go into the pockets of creators The sale of back-issue 'raw' books does not directly go into their pockets either. Some of the smarter creators charge more for signatures now, when they know the signing is being witnessed by CGC.
Right, but LCS getting paid a lot for back issues have more money to stay afloat and keep selling books. A rising tide lifts all ships or something. And rightly so! Might as well get a piece of the pie if people want to pay for it.
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Post by Batflunkie on Jun 11, 2021 9:30:37 GMT -5
Are you referring to the original X-Factor title from 1986? Yes.
The later title by Peter David was rather good (at least the first arc that I read.)
It's a good read, yes, but I wonder if a lot of the humor in the book is kind of dated (much like MST3K). Like for instance, the manager for the new X-Factor team is supposedly Dale Cooper's sister from Twin Peaks
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Post by brutalis on Jun 11, 2021 9:42:13 GMT -5
People can slab and pay outrageous prices for those comics all they like. I just don't want or like the idea that because someone chose to overpay for their slab of plastic means unslabbed prices rise higher. Seeing prices skyrocket across the board will destroy the fun for those who search out fairly priced issues for reading.
Hearing and seeing horror stories of $1 bin and marked down issues being "changed" at checkout and cover less copies going way up in pricing is ridiculous. You can ASK any price you like but I am NOT going to pay it. Once upon a teen I was willing to pay premium prices to fill in my collection but these days I care more about the reading and not just the owning.
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Post by impulse on Jun 11, 2021 9:45:25 GMT -5
People can slab and pay outrageous prices for those comics all they like. I just don't want or like the idea that because someone chose to overpay for their slab of plastic means unslabbed prices rise higher. Seeing prices skyrocket across the board will destroy the fun for those who search out fairly priced issues for reading. Hearing and seeing horror stories of $1 bin and marked down issues being "changed" at checkout and cover less copies going way up in pricing is ridiculous. You can ASK any price you like but I am NOT going to pay it. Once upon a teen I was willing to pay premium prices to fill in my collection but these days I care more about the reading and not just the owning. Now that is ridiculous. I'd refuse to spend another penny at an establishment that increased the marked price at point of sale. Nuts to that. That's not because of slabbing. That is a horrible business practice.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2021 9:53:18 GMT -5
People can slab and pay outrageous prices for those comics all they like. I just don't want or like the idea that because someone chose to overpay for their slab of plastic means unslabbed prices rise higher. Seeing prices skyrocket across the board will destroy the fun for those who search out fairly priced issues for reading. Hearing and seeing horror stories of $1 bin and marked down issues being "changed" at checkout and cover less copies going way up in pricing is ridiculous. You can ASK any price you like but I am NOT going to pay it. Once upon a teen I was willing to pay premium prices to fill in my collection but these days I care more about the reading and not just the owning. I feel very much the same way. And as a result I buy a lot of collected editions these days just so I can enjoy actual reading, much as there is something so delightful about holding a vintage comic (the nostalgia, the history, the smell? yes, I said it, the smell!) And while I have a lifetime of collections to enjoy of old material, sometimes I want to read something that hasn't been properly reprinted in some form (like Sea Devils in color! very little in the way of reprints), and I still need to rely on a vintage purchase simply to enjoy reading it. If I get priced out, even if I could "technically" afford it as a larger purchase, it kills the fun.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 11, 2021 10:10:50 GMT -5
People can slab and pay outrageous prices for those comics all they like. I just don't want or like the idea that because someone chose to overpay for their slab of plastic means unslabbed prices rise higher. Seeing prices skyrocket across the board will destroy the fun for those who search out fairly priced issues for reading. Hearing and seeing horror stories of $1 bin and marked down issues being "changed" at checkout and cover less copies going way up in pricing is ridiculous. You can ASK any price you like but I am NOT going to pay it. Once upon a teen I was willing to pay premium prices to fill in my collection but these days I care more about the reading and not just the owning. I feel very much the same way. And as a result I buy a lot of collected editions these days just so I can enjoy actual reading, much as there is something so delightful about holding a vintage comic (the nostalgia, the history, the smell? yes, I said it, the smell!) Darn right!!! Nothing evokes childish happiness like the smell of old newsprint!!!
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 11, 2021 10:41:03 GMT -5
People can slab and pay outrageous prices for those comics all they like. I just don't want or like the idea that because someone chose to overpay for their slab of plastic means unslabbed prices rise higher. Seeing prices skyrocket across the board will destroy the fun for those who search out fairly priced issues for reading. Hearing and seeing horror stories of $1 bin and marked down issues being "changed" at checkout and cover less copies going way up in pricing is ridiculous. You can ASK any price you like but I am NOT going to pay it. Once upon a teen I was willing to pay premium prices to fill in my collection but these days I care more about the reading and not just the owning. Changing prices at checkout sounds illegal.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 11, 2021 11:14:03 GMT -5
People can slab and pay outrageous prices for those comics all they like. I just don't want or like the idea that because someone chose to overpay for their slab of plastic means unslabbed prices rise higher. Seeing prices skyrocket across the board will destroy the fun for those who search out fairly priced issues for reading. Hearing and seeing horror stories of $1 bin and marked down issues being "changed" at checkout and cover less copies going way up in pricing is ridiculous. You can ASK any price you like but I am NOT going to pay it. Once upon a teen I was willing to pay premium prices to fill in my collection but these days I care more about the reading and not just the owning. Changing prices at checkout sounds illegal. It is, in most states. Retail pricing is subject to Weights and Measure laws, which govern the accurate listing of goods and their pricing. Charging for prices other than displayed can result in fines and other legal action. It is randomly audited in many states, though those departments usually aren't budgeted highly; so, their reach tends to be small and they look more at bigger retailers, with greater impact on the community. When I worked for B&N, we had to be very careful about our discount stickers (special promotions, current bestseller list, etc) to make sure they were current and also that bargain and remaindered titles were properly labeled. I visited an area store, many years back, which didn't put prices on their comics (they did a large volume in mail order) and they priced them, when you brought them up. I went for lower grade copies, when possible, as long as they weren't dog-eared; but, when the clerk gave me prices on some of them that seemed out of line, I pulled them out of the stack and said no and kept doing that with each over-priced copy. Then, the prices he was giving me got more and more reasonable, the lower the stack went. I had another vendor, at a small convention, around the time of the Death of Superman. I had stopped getting the books, but, once the storyline started, and I was hearing things, I put them back on my list, but missed the first 3 installments. This guy had them, but with no pricing. I asked how much they were and he told me it depended on how much I buy. I told him that would be nothing and moved on. I got them all via mail order (2nd printing for the first installment) for reasonable prices. He had a store in town but I never shopped there because he would not price things and then quote ridiculous prices, for grade, from Wizard. he was also scamming kids with over priced Magic the Gathering cards, which he had his guys go through packs and remove valuable cards, then sell the opened packs and jacked up the prices on the rarer ones. he also would set up in vacant storefronts for a weekend for "book sales," with remaindered junk, at 2 or 3 times the price we had them at, in our bargain section. He used to come into our store and look for stuff in the bargain area, for resale, and then try to complain about condition and try to get a discount. I shut him down quickly and said bargain books are sold as-is and we know he is reselling them, so take it or leave it. He stopped trying to pull that one. Guy was a real scumbag and was pretty much boycotted by regular comic collectors, mostly scamming kids too dumb to know better and parents to lazy and overly-indulgent to protest.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2021 11:23:26 GMT -5
People can slab and pay outrageous prices for those comics all they like. I just don't want or like the idea that because someone chose to overpay for their slab of plastic means unslabbed prices rise higher. Seeing prices skyrocket across the board will destroy the fun for those who search out fairly priced issues for reading. Hearing and seeing horror stories of $1 bin and marked down issues being "changed" at checkout and cover less copies going way up in pricing is ridiculous. You can ASK any price you like but I am NOT going to pay it. Once upon a teen I was willing to pay premium prices to fill in my collection but these days I care more about the reading and not just the owning. On the flip side, you can want to pay a certain price and get a product you desire, even if that was the price you were used to paying decades ago, but if market factors have changed prices, the books are going to sell at the going rate, not what you want to pay for them. Comics have no intrinsic value, no "correct price" it is entirely a function of demand and what people are willing to pay. What people are willing to pay determines the "correct price" so if other people are willing to pay more and books sell at that price, what you think is the right price is irrelevant to everyone except you. If a book is priced at more than you want to pay for it, or were paying for it in the past, it doesn't mean it is overpriced, it means other people value it more than you and are willing to pay more and it is that which determines the market price, not the stragglers who want to pay old market prices rather than current. Trust me, I feel you, there are a lot of books being priced out of my range because of the current surge, but that's the market responding to current demand, that's the way a free market works, especially in goods that have no intrinsic or inherent value to determine pricing. Luxury goods always sell at a price people who can afford them are willing to pay for that luxury, Sometimes that prices things out of reach of some, but again, that's the nature of luxury items in a free market. Those prices aren't incorrect or unfair, they are the market at work. Could thee be a market correction down the line? Sure, but that again will be the market determining prices in response to current demand and willingness to pay by consumers, not a return to "fair" or "correct" prices. -M
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 11, 2021 11:35:43 GMT -5
Changing prices at checkout sounds illegal. It is, in most states. Retail pricing is subject to Weights and Measure laws, which govern the accurate listing of goods and their pricing. Charging for prices other than displayed can result in fines and other legal action. It is randomly audited in many states, though those departments usually aren't budgeted highly; so, their reach tends to be small and they look more at bigger retailers, with greater impact on the community. When I worked for B&N, we had to be very careful about our discount stickers (special promotions, current bestseller list, etc) to make sure they were current and also that bargain and remaindered titles were properly labeled. I visited an area store, many years back, which didn't put prices on their comics (they did a large volume in mail order) and they priced them, when you brought them up. I went for lower grade copies, when possible, as long as they weren't dog-eared; but, when the clerk gave me prices on some of them that seemed out of line, I pulled them out of the stack and said no and kept doing that with each over-priced copy. Then, the prices he was giving me got more and more reasonable, the lower the stack went. I had another vendor, at a small convention, around the time of the Death of Superman. I had stopped getting the books, but, once the storyline started, and I was hearing things, I put them back on my list, but missed the first 3 installments. This guy had them, but with no pricing. I asked how much they were and he told me it depended on how much I buy. I told him that would be nothing and moved on. I got them all via mail order (2nd printing for the first installment) for reasonable prices. He had a store in town but I never shopped there because he would not price things and then quote ridiculous prices, for grade, from Wizard. he was also scamming kids with over priced Magic the Gathering cards, which he had his guys go through packs and remove valuable cards, then sell the opened packs and jacked up the prices on the rarer ones. he also would set up in vacant storefronts for a weekend for "book sales," with remaindered junk, at 2 or 3 times the price we had them at, in our bargain section. He used to come into our store and look for stuff in the bargain area, for resale, and then try to complain about condition and try to get a discount. I shut him down quickly and said bargain books are sold as-is and we know he is reselling them, so take it or leave it. He stopped trying to pull that one. Guy was a real scumbag and was pretty much boycotted by regular comic collectors, mostly scamming kids too dumb to know better and parents to lazy and overly-indulgent to protest. If there are no prices on the book, I understand but something that has a price should not be “adjusted “ at checkout.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2021 13:04:20 GMT -5
People can slab and pay outrageous prices for those comics all they like. I just don't want or like the idea that because someone chose to overpay for their slab of plastic means unslabbed prices rise higher. Seeing prices skyrocket across the board will destroy the fun for those who search out fairly priced issues for reading. Hearing and seeing horror stories of $1 bin and marked down issues being "changed" at checkout and cover less copies going way up in pricing is ridiculous. You can ASK any price you like but I am NOT going to pay it. Once upon a teen I was willing to pay premium prices to fill in my collection but these days I care more about the reading and not just the owning. On the flip side, you can want to pay a certain price and get a product you desire, even if that was the price you were used to paying decades ago, but if market factors have changed prices, the books are going to sell at the going rate, not what you want to pay for them. Comics have no intrinsic value, no "correct price" it is entirely a function of demand and what people are willing to pay. What people are willing to pay determines the "correct price" so if other people are willing to pay more and books sell at that price, what you think is the right price is irrelevant to everyone except you. If a book is priced at more than you want to pay for it, or were paying for it in the past, it doesn't mean it is overpriced, it means other people value it more than you and are willing to pay more and it is that which determines the market price, not the stragglers who want to pay old market prices rather than current. Trust me, I feel you, there are a lot of books being priced out of my range because of the current surge, but that's the market responding to current demand, that's the way a free market works, especially in goods that have no intrinsic or inherent value to determine pricing. Luxury goods always sell at a price people who can afford them are willing to pay for that luxury, Sometimes that prices things out of reach of some, but again, that's the nature of luxury items in a free market. Those prices aren't incorrect or unfair, they are the market at work. Could thee be a market correction down the line? Sure, but that again will be the market determining prices in response to current demand and willingness to pay by consumers, not a return to "fair" or "correct" prices. -M I think the free market consideration is an important counterpoint, the flip side as you said. The differentiator to me is "it's not unfair because that's how a free market works, but I don't like it", versus "an inflated speculator market that does not have the economic fundamentals in place for the long term". Sure, there are booms and crashes. Unexpected volatility can happen at any time, and what we are experiencing with for example the MCU exposure of classic heroes to tons more people, pandemic spending, the slabbing/grading scheme over the years (sorry, there's that cynicism again)...it's a "hyper-boom". Nobody is "wrong" to buy Hulk #181 for $6K if they want to. But would you advise a family member to do so, no matter how much they were excited to drop that coin? Versus if they had an opportunity for a rare Golden Age comic with low census numbers and better condition than normally seen. While nobody can predict the future, and maybe $6K really is the new norm for Hulk #181, we all act on imperfect information and buying on the surge upwards of a boom is, if nothing else, a much bigger gamble. Which leads to the big question: do you buy as an investment? do you buy purely for enjoyment of owning and appreciating? do you buy because collector fever has made you throw caution to the wind, and there's always time to pay off the credit card? Or some combination of all of the above? Again, no "wrong" here, but I can see scenarios: "I've always wanted Hulk #181, I know I should have bought it years ago, or months ago in this environment, but life's short, I've worked hard for my money, it's a dream and I'm going to go for it. I fully know I'm buying at the worst time in the market, but I'm blessed to have the funds and I'm going to live a little and go for it." Or maybe: "I just saw some X-Men movies, and I never read the comics but I want to start collecting! I've got these rare variant edition covers on some recent new comics and I'm hoping for 9.8 when they come back, but I just read the first appearance was Hulk #181 and it's 'the' issue to get, so I'll bid whatever it takes! I've heard this book is only going to keep getting more valuable." Ok, I'm totally staging the extremes here with a "true blue collector living a dream" versus "unwashed masses dallying in a sacred market, causing untold havoc in the long run". The motivation for buyers in any market can run the spectrum. I think maybe the gist of it for some of us who don't like what the market has turned into is that, while again nobody is doing anything "wrong", this gut feeling that many driving the speculation are not as much into a love for enjoying comic book content versus a rather rabid need to fuel constructs (like slabbed 9.8's) and buying behaviors that don't feel fundamentally sound. Plus some of us are just getting cranky as we get older because the world is changing wrong (raises hand slowly).
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Post by Graphic Autist on Jun 11, 2021 13:22:59 GMT -5
9.9 or nothing for me...
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