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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2021 9:39:30 GMT -5
It’s very inconsistent, and often contradictory.
I don’t mind change at all. Again, Peter David’s Hulk. But Byrne, particularly during a discussion with Dan Slott, seemed to say that his She-Hulk was not a different character. As someone who has tracked down a LOT of She-Hulk stories from her own title and FF run, I never saw her as quirky in those books, nor did she break the fourth wall. It’s fine that Byrne changed it and did something different, but he can hardly complain about others doing the same with characters.
I don’t like excessive or really profound change. I’ve no desire to see Spidey become a cyborg who travels the galaxy as a bounty hunter. Too far. But Parker being a CEO for a while or Ben Reilly taking over for a period, well I’m fine with that.
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Post by kirby101 on Nov 27, 2021 10:04:38 GMT -5
Now I want cosmic, cyborg Spider-Man stories.
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Post by badwolf on Nov 27, 2021 18:09:53 GMT -5
It’s very inconsistent, and often contradictory. I don’t mind change at all. Again, Peter David’s Hulk. But Byrne, particularly during a discussion with Dan Slott, seemed to say that his She-Hulk was not a different character. As someone who has tracked down a LOT of She-Hulk stories from her own title and FF run, I never saw her as quirky in those books, nor did she break the fourth wall. It’s fine that Byrne changed it and did something different, but he can hardly complain about others doing the same with characters. I don't see the meta thing as being part of her character, just the central concept of that particular series. It could be done with anyone, but since She-Hulk wasn't busy at the time and he liked her, she was used.
Otherwise I don't think he really changed her. He has a different writing style than Roger Stern or David Anthony Kraft, that's all.
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Post by impulse on Nov 27, 2021 23:28:54 GMT -5
I didn't even know John Byrne was still alive. That says more about my ignorance on the current status of comics than anything else, mind you, but this was a surprising discussion to me.
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 28, 2021 0:54:02 GMT -5
I didn't even know John Byrne was still alive. That says more about my ignorance on the current status of comics than anything else, mind you, but this was a surprising discussion to me. He’s alive but has apparently burned bridges ( no pun intended) with todays publishers. I heard that he’s drawing his own X-men book continuing from when he left and posting the pages on his website.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Nov 28, 2021 2:07:29 GMT -5
I'm enjoying Batman 89, in some ways more than the movies it follows from, but it doesn't feel like the same universe at all to me. The Burton movies are pure fantasy, where a 5-foot nothing guy can kick people through walls and intimidate hardened criminals with a stare and where a meek secretary with no training whatsoever can suddenly become an Olympic-level gymnast just from having a near-death experience. The attempts to make it more grounded, to deal with real-world issues, or to treat Keaton's Batman as anything other than a sociopath make it feel disconnected from the movies and not part of the same universe at all.
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Post by Duragizer on Nov 28, 2021 2:22:44 GMT -5
I'm enjoying Batman 89, in some ways more than the movies it follows from, but it doesn't feel like the same universe at all to me. The Burton movies are pure fantasy, where a 5-foot nothing guy can kick people through walls and intimidate hardened criminals with a stare and where a meek secretary with no training whatsoever can suddenly become an Olympic-level gymnast just from having a near-death experience. The attempts to make it more grounded, to deal with real-world issues, or to treat Keaton's Batman as anything other than a sociopath make it feel disconnected from the movies and not part of the same universe at all. Not to mention the B:TAS imagery.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2021 5:46:59 GMT -5
It’s very inconsistent, and often contradictory. I don’t mind change at all. Again, Peter David’s Hulk. But Byrne, particularly during a discussion with Dan Slott, seemed to say that his She-Hulk was not a different character. As someone who has tracked down a LOT of She-Hulk stories from her own title and FF run, I never saw her as quirky in those books, nor did she break the fourth wall. It’s fine that Byrne changed it and did something different, but he can hardly complain about others doing the same with characters. I don't see the meta thing as being part of her character, just the central concept of that particular series. It could be done with anyone, but since She-Hulk wasn't busy at the time and he liked her, she was used.
Otherwise I don't think he really changed her. He has a different writing style than Roger Stern or David Anthony Kraft, that's all.
A different writing style is fine. But in the She-Hulk stories I’ve read (such as the Marvel Masterworks volumes), she was a tortured soul who had a difficult relationship with her father, a sheriff. She was torn between her time as She-Hulk and her legal career. Byrne made her quirky, as if she actually enjoyed being She-Hulk. Which is fine. A different interpretation. But then he shouldn’t pick holes in others who might change a character or take them in a different direction.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2021 5:48:15 GMT -5
I didn't even know John Byrne was still alive. That says more about my ignorance on the current status of comics than anything else, mind you, but this was a surprising discussion to me. He’s alive but has apparently burned bridges ( no pun intended) with todays publishers. I heard that he’s drawing his own X-men book continuing from when he left and posting the pages on his website. Yes, he’s doing something called X-Men: Elsewhen. That’s fine. A “fanboy” project in my view, hence why his use of that term to describe Batman ‘89 and Superman ‘78 irked me.
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Post by Cei-U! on Nov 28, 2021 6:01:46 GMT -5
I don't see the meta thing as being part of her character, just the central concept of that particular series. It could be done with anyone, but since She-Hulk wasn't busy at the time and he liked her, she was used.
Otherwise I don't think he really changed her. He has a different writing style than Roger Stern or David Anthony Kraft, that's all.
A different writing style is fine. But in the She-Hulk stories I’ve read (such as the Marvel Masterworks volumes), she was a tortured soul who had a difficult relationship with her father, a sheriff. She was torn between her time as She-Hulk and her legal career. Byrne made her quirky, as if she actually enjoyed being She-Hulk. Which is fine. A different interpretation. But then he shouldn’t pick holes in others who might change a character or take them in a different direction. But that was her personality by them. Jen not only enjoyed being Shulkie, she reveled in it, rarely changing back to her human form unless she absolutely had to. That was how she was portrayed in both Stern's Avengers and Byrne's FF. So Byrne didn't change the character's persona in her later series, he just exagerrated it a bit.
Cei-U! I summon the ch-ch-ch-chamges!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2021 8:26:00 GMT -5
Exaggerated is a better term, I admit. I did think his She-Hulk was more quirky than she’d ever been.
It’s just that he often put out this purist view about not changing the characters, often in an absolute way. Seems to be no grey areas with Byrne. An exaggeration, which is a good choice of words, is a change for me. Some people changed things a lot less, yet he had an issue with them (I’m not even sure why he turned the Vision white and rather “unemotional”).
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 28, 2021 8:32:01 GMT -5
Exaggerated is a better term, I admit. I did think his She-Hulk was more quirky than she’d ever been. It’s just that he often put out this purist view about not changing the characters, often in an absolute way. Seems to be no grey areas with Byrne. An exaggeration, which is a good choice of words, is a change for me. Some people changed things a lot less, yet he had an issue with them (I’m not even sure why he turned the Vision white and rather “unemotional”). Sometimes I wonder about the change to the Vision by Byrne. Generally, you're supposed to put " the toys" back the way you found them when you leave a book. He was rushed off the book before he wanted to go, leaving Roy Thomas to complete the story around Wanda and Immortus. Vision wasn't really restored into his classic look until Busiek did his late 90's run. The marriage was totally dissolved by that point.
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Post by badwolf on Nov 28, 2021 17:42:32 GMT -5
A different writing style is fine. But in the She-Hulk stories I’ve read (such as the Marvel Masterworks volumes), she was a tortured soul who had a difficult relationship with her father, a sheriff. She was torn between her time as She-Hulk and her legal career. Byrne made her quirky, as if she actually enjoyed being She-Hulk. Which is fine. A different interpretation. But then he shouldn’t pick holes in others who might change a character or take them in a different direction. But that was her personality by them. Jen not only enjoyed being Shulkie, she reveled in it, rarely changing back to her human form unless she absolutely had to. That was how she was portrayed in both Stern's Avengers and Byrne's FF. So Byrne didn't change the character's persona in her later series, he just exagerrated it a bit.
Cei-U! I summon the ch-ch-ch-chamges!
Yep, at the end of her first series she announced that she was staying She-Hulk. She wasn't even fussed when Reed told her she wouldn't be able to change back again in the She-Hulk graphic novel.
The only time I can remember her changing voluntarily was in that FF issue where they were hiding their identities in a suburban home. Their nosy neighbor saw Jen change, became convinced they were witches, and it all went to hell...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2021 22:58:48 GMT -5
So....I left the comic book store at 2am on a bitter cold night and I was suddenly attacked by 2 Rob Liefeld fans....they put a noose around my neck, called me fat, poured juice on me and said this is Liefeld country.
This is really a ploy to sell more comics....hope it works.
There, I said it.
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Post by tartanphantom on Dec 11, 2021 0:30:15 GMT -5
I can't believe that they didn't stick a rolled up copy of Youngblood #1 in your back pocket...
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