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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 7, 2022 12:15:42 GMT -5
This is how I think continuity should be dealt with. There. I said it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2022 13:17:58 GMT -5
Marvel's strategy seems to not be keep it available so people can buy it, but rerelease the same material so the completists keep rebuying it. If you're a Marvel zombie completist and you want to have ASM 1-10, (sometimes just AF 15 and 1-10, sometimes with more issues in the product as well, sometimes less) Marvel will sell it to you as a Hardcover Masterwork, a softcover masterwork, an Essential, an omnibus, an omnibus with a variant cover, an Essential, a $250 Taschen edition
Yeah, they did get me with that Taschen edition but it looks marvellous on a coffee table and cost me closer to $140 with a store discount....
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Post by tarkintino on Apr 7, 2022 14:23:03 GMT -5
Thanks @mrp , fascinating. Interesting how Marvel doesn’t tend to do evergreen. Marvel's strategy seems to not be keep it available so people can buy it, but rerelease the same material so the completists keep rebuying it. If you're a Marvel zombie completist and you want to have ASM 1-10, (sometimes just AF 15 and 1-10, sometimes with more issues in the product as well, sometimes less) Marvel will sell it to you as a Hardcover Masterwork, a softcover masterwork, an Essential, an omnibus, an omnibus with a variant cover, an Essential, a $250 Taschen edition, a new version of Masterworks in hardcover with new covers and trade dress, a new edition of the omnibus with variations, and now a new softcover Masterworks edition with 2 different covers one for the direct market one for the mass market. Yet even with all that, none of those editions have stayed in print, or been kept in print and there were times you had to go to the secondary market to get it. And it seems to work as there is a certain segment of the customer base who buy it over and over again in each version as it is released. It's a strategy that almost seems exploitive of the existing audience rather than one that is intended to broaden the audience. -M Sounds about right. This is likely due to Marvel knowing their new, printed content (i.e., monthlies) are rotting garbage the longtime collectors do not read, and the untapped, MCU fans have not been interested in exploring it at all (some are of the "why read?" mentality and just want to see a "spectacle"), so they keep reprinting the classics in one expensive format after another for the truly obsessed fans. Personally, I collected Marvel Masterworks when they were first released because I believed they would be a final, durable "answer" to not handling my original books too much (just as some TPB served that purpose in the 70s and 80s). But I was never suckered in to double and triple-dip on more recent collections, other than the random artist-centric book. Oh, and about Taschen...some of their books (e.g., The Jamee Bond and Star Wars archives) are so unwieldy that it makes me wonder why the publisher believed anyone would enjoy lugging those stone tablets around. Not the most comforting reading experience, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2022 14:43:57 GMT -5
Sounds about right. This is likely due to Marvel knowing their new, printed content (i.e., monthlies) are rotting garbage the longtime collectors do not read, and the untapped
I won't go so far as to call the new material 'rotting garbage'....it still sells to current day audiences and they know collectors buy multiple copies where variants are concerned. They don't need the disparaging long time collector to help those sales...
I like the current Black Widow series
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 7, 2022 15:02:43 GMT -5
Marvel's strategy seems to not be keep it available so people can buy it, but rerelease the same material so the completists keep rebuying it. If you're a Marvel zombie completist and you want to have ASM 1-10, (sometimes just AF 15 and 1-10, sometimes with more issues in the product as well, sometimes less) Marvel will sell it to you as a Hardcover Masterwork, a softcover masterwork, an Essential, an omnibus, an omnibus with a variant cover, an Essential, a $250 Taschen edition, a new version of Masterworks in hardcover with new covers and trade dress, a new edition of the omnibus with variations, and now a new softcover Masterworks edition with 2 different covers one for the direct market one for the mass market. Yet even with all that, none of those editions have stayed in print, or been kept in print and there were times you had to go to the secondary market to get it. And it seems to work as there is a certain segment of the customer base who buy it over and over again in each version as it is released. It's a strategy that almost seems exploitive of the existing audience rather than one that is intended to broaden the audience. -M Sounds about right. This is likely due to Marvel knowing their new, printed content (i.e., monthlies) are rotting garbage the longtime collectors do not read, and the untapped, MCU fans have not been interested in exploring it at all (some are of the "why read?" mentality and just want to see a "spectacle"), so they keep reprinting the classics in one expensive format after another for the truly obsessed fans. Personally, I collected Marvel Masterworks when they were first released because I believed they would be a final, durable "answer" to not handling my original books too much (just as some TPB served that purpose in the 70s and 80s). But I was never suckered in to double and triple-dip on more recent collections, other than the random artist-centric book. Oh, and about Taschen...some of their books (e.g., The Jamee Bond and Star Wars archives) are so unwieldy that it makes me wonder why the publisher believed anyone would enjoy lugging those stone tablets around. Not the most comforting reading experience, IMO. Taschen is all about making art and pop culture books available to a wider audience. Founder Benedikt Taschen loved art, architecture and photography; but, books on the subject were often prohibitively expensive. He started a publishing company to make them more affordable to a general audience. They are usually done in multiple languages, in the same book, to reduce the amount of reprinting for other markets. They also treat the actual book as a piece of art, with some limited stunt publishing, like Helmut Newton's Sumo, which was a literal coffee table book (before Seinfeld swiped it for a gag), where the enormous book came with a metal stand, that turned it into a table.... They did a similar thing with GOAT, about Muhammad Ali and a David Hockney work. Those are limited pieces. Their usual editions are more standard, but cover a pretty wide range of topics. They did a great collection about the old men's adventure pulp magazines of the 50s and 60s, which B&N picked up, for a time..... To my mind, their stunts are no different from some of the packaging concepts Chip Kidd has done.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,057
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Post by Confessor on Apr 7, 2022 15:11:42 GMT -5
On the subject of books that are unwieldy, the Marvel omnibus collections, while often being things of beauty, are also inconveniently heavy to read.
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Post by MDG on Apr 7, 2022 15:12:37 GMT -5
The other "affordability" thing Taschen will do is put out a big book, then condense a smaller version. As far as art objects, I picked up this set cheap solely because it looks real neat on a shelf.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2022 15:13:09 GMT -5
Marvel's strategy seems to not be keep it available so people can buy it, but rerelease the same material so the completists keep rebuying it. If you're a Marvel zombie completist and you want to have ASM 1-10, (sometimes just AF 15 and 1-10, sometimes with more issues in the product as well, sometimes less) Marvel will sell it to you as a Hardcover Masterwork, a softcover masterwork, an Essential, an omnibus, an omnibus with a variant cover, an Essential, a $250 Taschen edition, a new version of Masterworks in hardcover with new covers and trade dress, a new edition of the omnibus with variations, and now a new softcover Masterworks edition with 2 different covers one for the direct market one for the mass market. Yet even with all that, none of those editions have stayed in print, or been kept in print and there were times you had to go to the secondary market to get it. And it seems to work as there is a certain segment of the customer base who buy it over and over again in each version as it is released. It's a strategy that almost seems exploitive of the existing audience rather than one that is intended to broaden the audience. -M Sounds about right. This is likely due to Marvel knowing their new, printed content (i.e., monthlies) are rotting garbage the longtime collectors do not read, and the untapped, MCU fans have not been interested in exploring it at all (some are of the "why read?" mentality and just want to see a "spectacle"), so they keep reprinting the classics in one expensive format after another for the truly obsessed fans. Personally, I collected Marvel Masterworks when they were first released because I believed they would be a final, durable "answer" to not handling my original books too much (just as some TPB served that purpose in the 70s and 80s). But I was never suckered in to double and triple-dip on more recent collections, other than the random artist-centric book. Oh, and about Taschen...some of their books (e.g., The Jamee Bond and Star Wars archives) are so unwieldy that it makes me wonder why the publisher believed anyone would enjoy lugging those stone tablets around. Not the most comforting reading experience, IMO. Yeah collected editions of newer stuff have higher print runs and sell out faster than collected editions of older material. They also sell better in digital and get more clicks on Marvel Unlimited. The strategy for keeping books in print has nothing to do with how well received the new material is vs older material, and more likely to do with the younger demographics more widely adapting digital models for reading comics than print, and having an aversion to accumulating stuff so are less likely to buy printed collections, while fans of the older material still cling to print models and still have completist tendencies. There has been a cultural shift in the way people view and interact with stuff. Younger generations prefer experiences over stuff and prefer to have fewer possessions-this includes media-stream rather than own DVDs, ebooks rather than regular books, and digital comics rather than physical. The norm for younger collectors has moved away form completist collecting to totem collecting. The goal is not to have every appearance, every story, everything about a character, series, property, etc. but to own a few select representative pieces that are a totem of your fandom. So younger fans, who do read, like, enjoy and resonate with the newer material re not as likely to buy collected editions of it (or even initial print offerings of it). It doesn't mean the material is hot garbage, it means there is a new norm in the way consumers interact and consume that material that makes comparing old to new in terms of sales akin to apples and oranges. Some content producers have adapted to the new zeitgeist (as have some older fans), many have not (including many older fans who cling to their outdated perspective on what constitutes success). The industry is changing. Peoples tastes have changed. The way people interact with content has changed. It's all part of the natural process of time passing. The norms for one generation go by the wayside as they get older. Happened to our parents and grandparents generations when we rejected their norms for our own. It's happening to us as the generations of "our" children and grandchildren reject our norms and adapt their own. The only constant is change. Comics are not the way they were when we first bought in, and that' a good thing, because if they were, they would be dead, not thriving in different formats and genres as it is now. Marvel's strategy for print, for good or ill, is to appeal to the older norms and double down on the direct market. However, they have moved towards newer norms with things like Marvel Unlimited and the an increasing number o digital first and digital only content. It's the nature of things. We seem to stand still and the world changes around us. -M
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Post by Batflunkie on Apr 7, 2022 15:55:31 GMT -5
On the subject of books that are unwieldy, the Marvel omnibus collections, while often being things of beauty, are also inconveniently heavy to read. Which is why I'm glad that the only Omnibus I ever bought was the one for Howard. I'd stick with Epic Collections if they weren't so irregularly produced or didn't take literal years to go back into print
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2022 16:13:28 GMT -5
On the subject of books that are unwieldy, the Marvel omnibus collections, while often being things of beauty, are also inconveniently heavy to read.
Weighs almost 20 pounds, 13 x 20 inches and 3.5 inches thick....but I couldn't resist
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Apr 7, 2022 16:14:24 GMT -5
The other "affordability" thing Taschen will do is put out a big book, then condense a smaller version. As far as art objects, I picked up this set cheap solely because it looks real neat on a shelf. I bought this on amazon some years back because it seemed like an interesting read, after reading about it's history on wikipedia. And it was. Though the subject of older erotic and fetish magazines interest me in general. I've always been fascinated with them since discovering Bettie Page. Might to get it out and put it on my night stand and give it another read. I mean it couldn't be a bad thing for that material to the last thing on your mind before you go to sleep ... lol
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,057
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Post by Confessor on Apr 7, 2022 16:38:37 GMT -5
On the subject of books that are unwieldy, the Marvel omnibus collections, while often being things of beauty, are also inconveniently heavy to read. Weighs almost 20 pounds, 13 x 20 inches and 3.5 inches thick....but I couldn't resist I can feel the arm pain from here!
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 7, 2022 18:04:13 GMT -5
On the subject of books that are unwieldy, the Marvel omnibus collections, while often being things of beauty, are also inconveniently heavy to read. Omnibuses (Omnibi?) are generally pretty hard to read... I got a few Silver Age DC ones cheap a couple years back, but I only dip into them now and then, they're just a pain. The Marvel Epic collections are about as big as I like. That's quite a random set of stuff in that X-Men hardcover! X-Men (1963) 1, 57-59, 141; Uncanny X-Men (1981) 142, 500; Marvel Graphic Novel 5: X-Men - God Loves, Man Kills; X-Men (1991) 1-3, 30; New X-Men (2001) 114-116; Astonishing X-Men (2004) 1-6; All -New X-Men 1-5
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Post by badwolf on Apr 7, 2022 18:08:15 GMT -5
The omnibuses can be awkward but I still love them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2022 18:22:02 GMT -5
Omnibus are generally place the book on the table while I read type of books not hold the book while I am reading it type of book. Reminds me of some of the massive tomes I had to use while researching my master's thesis in the rare book collection of the university.
-M
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