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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 28, 2023 9:09:41 GMT -5
Besides Bucky, what other characters should have stayed dead?
Now here's my perverse twist on the question: What character should've been killed off and left dead long ago?
Cei-U! I summon the hit list!
. I'm well aware of Slam Bradley's Law of Super-hero Comics. But it should be impossible to rationalize a normal, aging, dude with every cop and criminal gunning for him being planted six feet under long ago. Add in that he's now become a sex fetish for every incel white supremacist and it's long since time that he went away. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2023 10:40:12 GMT -5
It would be fun I think to try to make a timeline for some of the major Marvel characters... it would be such a big project though. That's something I'm slowly working towards with my own indexing projects: establishing a timeline for all the events between Fantastic Four #1 and, maybe, Shooter's departure from the EiC position. But it's gonna be a looong time coming. And I'm with 'bone: Bucky is dead and always will be (though I really dig the MCU's Winter Soldier). Cei-U! I summon the intransigence!
That's pretty much what the Grand Design books have been-X-Men by Ed Piskor, Hulk by Jim Rugg and I believe FF by Tom Scioli. They pretty much tell the story of their topic for ish #1 until a predetermined point. I've read X-Men and Hulk and they're good, as long os you enjoy that kind of stylistic art, but they do exactly what you are mentioning here and taking all those stories and trying to make a coherent chronological story for it. -M |
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Post by tarkintino on Apr 28, 2023 10:54:27 GMT -5
I think it's more that every writer picks and chooses what things they care about and makes their own canon, there's no real continuity anymore. If you don't like the story (and I agree that sounds terrible) just ignore it.. there's a good chance the next writer will as well. I pretty much ignore the Winter Soldier retcon. Bucky’s dead. I've always leaned in that direction; part of making the revived Captain America a compelling character was the guilt and horror of Bucky dying. His PTSD was a running narrative in many of his 1960s / early 70s stories, with much of it caused by Bucky's death (and the industry-for-villains it spawned with Bucky impostors, robots, androids, et al.). I've also disagreed with with selective memory the Winter Soldier's creator employed with the argument that Bucky--in his published history--was some sort of weapons-free kid running around, when Golden Age and Silver Age flashback stories featured a Bucky who killed on a regular basis, with all manner of firearms, grenades, and any other deadly weapon. He was in a world war, so slugging it out in every fight was not going to cut it, and he was not written that way. |
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Post by impulse on Apr 28, 2023 11:05:08 GMT -5
Yeah, after a point, it's very difficult if not impossible to settle on a plausible single timeline for serialized ongoing fiction. There is one certain technique that seems to help.
Just fudge it.
Or I like the idea that with the infinite amount of different realities, over time we just shift to watching similar but different realities of the characters. That's why Spider Man has been in his 20s for 60 years or why Magneto is always a Holocaust survivor but the Holocaust was about 20 years in the past from what we are reading.
Or just fudge it.
Side note, taboo as it was, the Winter Soldier story was REALLY good.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2023 11:39:24 GMT -5
Yeah, after a point, it's very difficult if not impossible to settle on a plausible single timeline for serialized ongoing fiction. There is one certain technique that seems to help. Just fudge it. Or I like the idea that with the infinite amount of different realities, over time we just shift to watching similar but different realities of the characters. That's why Spider Man has been in his 20s for 60 years or why Magneto is always a Holocaust survivor but the Holocaust was about 20 years in the past from what we are reading. Or just fudge it. Side note, taboo as it was, the Winter Soldier story was REALLY good. I can’t remember who said it (most likely, a reader on social media), but someone claimed there’d been 17,000 Spider-Man stories published - and counting. Now, I did the maths - and not perfectly. We’d have to presume Spidey has daily adventures, ignoring something like Maximum Carnage, which no doubt lasted months. Now, if there are 17,000 Spidey stories, and we play along with the whole daily adventure thing, then by my count, he’d have to have been Spidey for 46+ years (ignoring leap years). Or something. I divided 17,000 by 365 - and while not precise, my maths led me to the 46 figure, give or take (and you really must give or take). And he doesn’t have the benefit of us saying, “But early Spidey adventures took place on Earth 2.” So, when you be pedantic about it, as I am, and work it out, ongoing fiction doesn’t work after all this time. There’s no way Spidey could have had all of those adventures in 8-9 years, not if there are 17,000+ Spidey stories. |
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Post by impulse on Apr 28, 2023 12:26:21 GMT -5
Yeah, after a point, it's very difficult if not impossible to settle on a plausible single timeline for serialized ongoing fiction. There is one certain technique that seems to help. Just fudge it. Or I like the idea that with the infinite amount of different realities, over time we just shift to watching similar but different realities of the characters. That's why Spider Man has been in his 20s for 60 years or why Magneto is always a Holocaust survivor but the Holocaust was about 20 years in the past from what we are reading. Or just fudge it. Side note, taboo as it was, the Winter Soldier story was REALLY good. I can’t remember who said it (most likely, a reader on social media), but someone claimed there’d been 17,000 Spider-Man stories published - and counting. Now, I did the maths - and not perfectly. We’d have to presume Spidey has daily adventures, ignoring something like Maximum Carnage, which no doubt lasted months. Now, if there are 17,000 Spidey stories, and we play along with the whole daily adventure thing, then by my count, he’d have to have been Spidey for 46+ years (ignoring leap years). Or something. I divided 17,000 by 365 - and while not precise, my maths led me to the 46 figure, give or take (and you really must give or take). And he doesn’t have the benefit of us saying, “But early Spidey adventures took place on Earth 2.” So, when you be pedantic about it, as I am, and work it out, ongoing fiction doesn’t work after all this time. There’s no way Spidey could have had all of those adventures in 8-9 years, not if there are 17,000+ Spidey stories. Exactly! Thus we aren't watching the same Spidey, but one of the nearly identical infinite universes out there. Or their reality has a sliding timescale. Or just fudge it berceuse it's all made up. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 28, 2023 12:53:31 GMT -5
Yeah, after a point, it's very difficult if not impossible to settle on a plausible single timeline for serialized ongoing fiction. There is one certain technique that seems to help. Just fudge it. Or I like the idea that with the infinite amount of different realities, over time we just shift to watching similar but different realities of the characters. That's why Spider Man has been in his 20s for 60 years or why Magneto is always a Holocaust survivor but the Holocaust was about 20 years in the past from what we are reading. Or just fudge it. Side note, taboo as it was, the Winter Soldier story was REALLY good. I can’t remember who said it (most likely, a reader on social media), but someone claimed there’d been 17,000 Spider-Man stories published - and counting. Now, I did the maths - and not perfectly. We’d have to presume Spidey has daily adventures, ignoring something like Maximum Carnage, which no doubt lasted months. Now, if there are 17,000 Spidey stories, and we play along with the whole daily adventure thing, then by my count, he’d have to have been Spidey for 46+ years (ignoring leap years). Or something. I divided 17,000 by 365 - and while not precise, my maths led me to the 46 figure, give or take (and you really must give or take). And he doesn’t have the benefit of us saying, “But early Spidey adventures took place on Earth 2.” So, when you be pedantic about it, as I am, and work it out, ongoing fiction doesn’t work after all this time. There’s no way Spidey could have had all of those adventures in 8-9 years, not if there are 17,000+ Spidey stories. That's one of the reasons that Philip Jose Farmer didn't like letting comic book superheroes in to the Wold Newton family. Because it was simply impossible for them to have had the number of adventures that were chronicled. And that was 50 years ago. Even when he let them in it was with the idea they were powered closer to the pulp heroes and most of their stories didn't actually happen but were the fiction of that universe. Shared universes that go on for decades without a reboot will inevitably collapse on themselves like a black hole. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2023 13:39:23 GMT -5
Sometimes, creepy covers don't have monsters or ghosts on them, just scary looking people.
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Post by Mormel on Apr 28, 2023 13:56:57 GMT -5
Yeah, after a point, it's very difficult if not impossible to settle on a plausible single timeline for serialized ongoing fiction. There is one certain technique that seems to help. Just fudge it. Or I like the idea that with the infinite amount of different realities, over time we just shift to watching similar but different realities of the characters. That's why Spider Man has been in his 20s for 60 years or why Magneto is always a Holocaust survivor but the Holocaust was about 20 years in the past from what we are reading. Or just fudge it. Side note, taboo as it was, the Winter Soldier story was REALLY good. I can’t remember who said it (most likely, a reader on social media), but someone claimed there’d been 17,000 Spider-Man stories published - and counting. Now, I did the maths - and not perfectly. We’d have to presume Spidey has daily adventures, ignoring something like Maximum Carnage, which no doubt lasted months. Now, if there are 17,000 Spidey stories, and we play along with the whole daily adventure thing, then by my count, he’d have to have been Spidey for 46+ years (ignoring leap years). Or something. I divided 17,000 by 365 - and while not precise, my maths led me to the 46 figure, give or take (and you really must give or take). And he doesn’t have the benefit of us saying, “But early Spidey adventures took place on Earth 2.” So, when you be pedantic about it, as I am, and work it out, ongoing fiction doesn’t work after all this time. There’s no way Spidey could have had all of those adventures in 8-9 years, not if there are 17,000+ Spidey stories. "Spider-Man couldn't have possibly fought all those crimes! The Slingers did some of that stuff!" |
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Post by Chris on Apr 28, 2023 14:09:13 GMT -5
"Spider-Man couldn't have possibly fought all those crimes! The Slingers did some of that stuff!" There are no X-Men in the Danger Room. ...what? |
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Post by Cei-U! on Apr 29, 2023 7:58:48 GMT -5
It's not just super-heroes. Sgts. Rock and Fury couldn't possibly have had all those missions crammed into the three-and-a-half years of America's involvement in WW2. No way did Western heroes like Rawhide Kid and Lone Ranger cram all that action into the relatively small post-civil War era that constituted the Wild West. Hell, Hawkeye Pierce and company spent eleven years mired in the 3-year-long Korean War. Suspension of disbelief is required in all sorts of fiction in all sorts of media. Get the f over it!
Cei-U!
I summon the cranky connosieur (sp?)!
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Post by tarkintino on Apr 29, 2023 10:56:55 GMT -5
It's not just super-heroes. Sgts. Rock and Fury couldn't possibly have had all those missions crammed into the three-and-a-half years of America's involvement in WW2. No way did Western heroes like Rawhide Kid and Lone Ranger cram all that action into the relatively small post-civil War era that constituted the Wild West. Hell, Hawkeye Pierce and company spent eleven years mired in the 3-year-long Korean War. Suspension of disbelief is required in all sorts of fiction in all sorts of media. Get the f over it! Cei-U! I summon the cranky connosieur (sp?)! I have not read Sgt. Rock or Fury stories in some time, so I wonder how many of their individual "missions" extended across several issues, or were said to have lasted for several days or weeks? If they were not having new adventures in every issue, it could address the time issue compressed within WW2's actual length. |
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Post by kirby101 on Apr 29, 2023 11:19:45 GMT -5
Do you know how many shoot outs the average cop is involved in over their career? Zero.
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Post by Prince Hal on Apr 29, 2023 12:49:07 GMT -5
It's not just super-heroes. Sgts. Rock and Fury couldn't possibly have had all those missions crammed into the three-and-a-half years of America's involvement in WW2. No way did Western heroes like Rawhide Kid and Lone Ranger cram all that action into the relatively small post-civil War era that constituted the Wild West. Hell, Hawkeye Pierce and company spent eleven years mired in the 3-year-long Korean War. Suspension of disbelief is required in all sorts of fiction in all sorts of media. Get the f over it! Cei-U! I summon the cranky connosieur (sp?)! I have not read Sgt. Rock or Fury stories in some time, so I wonder how many of their individual "missions" extended across several issues, or were said to have lasted for several days or weeks? If they were not having new adventures in every issue, it could address the time issue compressed within WW2's actual length. Few continued stories in the Rock series, and with Kanigher at the helm, continuity wasn't exactly a priority. Rock and Easy fought in Africa, Italy and France from issue to issue, and I'm sure in other locations as well. Rock himself even went to the Pacific for the one real continued story I recall. Fury also fought wherever the writers wanted him to be; hell, he even went to Berlin to capture or kill Hitler, IIRC. Rock was at least somewhat realistic at times; Fury and the Howlers were essentially super-heroes in military uniforms for most of their run. |
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Post by jason on Apr 29, 2023 15:18:45 GMT -5
Team books should only feature characters who arent in their own book. As much as I love the Avengers books, once you realize that Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, etc also have individual stories, it makes you wonder when those stories are taking place in relation to the story going on in the team book.
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