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Post by truertothecore on Dec 3, 2015 9:31:57 GMT -5
 Yes, it is coming. A review thread for Chaykin's indie classics, that is now obscure but has inspired without any doubt other works that are now considered legendary, like "Watchmen" and "The Dark Knight Returns". Perhaps this review thread is a way to bring the character back into the spotlight! So... I have no review ready yet but I am posting this to put me under pressure to start reading and reviewing for I have wanted to do this for a long time. Some random stuff: - I didn't read this when it came out originally, was too young, I discovered it in the early 90s, I think. - I found it to be pretty awesome back then - I think and fear that it will seem horribly dated! So, let's see...  |
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Post by MDG on Dec 3, 2015 9:59:09 GMT -5
I'll be interested in seeing this--American Flagg was one of the series that drew me back into comics in the 80s. Interesting characters and concepts, good art, some smart writing--back in those days when indie comics meant a chance for something besides superheroes, it presaged what a lot of fans were hoping the market would become.
I read it through the 30s or so--left with the Badger run, and don't remember if I came back when Chaykin returned (with V0sburg doing a good imitation of Chaykin's art).
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 3, 2015 10:26:49 GMT -5
I read the first trade not that long ago.. it's a bit dated, but still pretty entertaining.. looking forward to it!
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Post by Nowhere Man on Dec 3, 2015 12:47:57 GMT -5
I bought the trades and loved the first volume. Very smart, and often very funny, writing. I didn't like the second nearly as much and quit reading in protest once Chaykin stopped doing the art. I need to at least finish Vol.2 one of these days...
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 3, 2015 17:47:38 GMT -5
Oh cool. I've only read the very early issues (when they were released in trade a few years back) but liked them a lot! Excited for this thread.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2015 18:44:44 GMT -5
I'm intrigued by this character and maybe I might start reading it ... Count me in!
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Post by fanboystranger on Dec 4, 2015 3:01:56 GMT -5
I just took a month off talking about comics, and I come back to this?  ? Holy underwear, I NEED this thread.... TrueToTheCore, get ready, 'cause once you've posted your thoughts about the first issue, I'm going to gush about how the sequence between Reuben's arrival on Earth and the first showdown with the Go-Gang is the single best sequence in comics of all-time... The first year/14 issues of American Flagg! are, quite frankly, the best series of comics ever made. Lots of comics would try to duplicate them to more fanfare-- cough, cough, Dark Knight Returns-- but none hit that seemless marriage between idea and depiction (or writing and art, if you will.) This is where comics grew up, but unlike most of the work that followed, it was smart, it was witty, and it wasn't afraid to both try new things (narratively) and offend people. It also saw the future so clearly-- both the '90s and today's political situations (30 years later)-- that I have to wonder what Chaykin was on... well, we know that... |
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Post by fanboystranger on Dec 4, 2015 3:11:14 GMT -5
One further thing I would consider is the idea of storytelling vs the story. The story is kinda dated-- although I'd argue we're still very much in the same world now politically as far as the United States-- but the storytelling completely revolutionized how comics told their tales on a structural level. AF! is, in my opinion, the ur-point of contemporary comics storytelling-- the how a story is told-- for better or for worse. It is a cinematic comic, but it understands the conceits of the comics medium better than any other comic I've ever read. On a functional/structural level, I don't think there is any other comic that shows you how to tell a story better than the first year of AF!. (I'd actually go first 14 issues, but 13-14 aren't drawn by Chaykin and basically mop up loose ends, significant to the story as those loose ends might be.)
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Post by fanboystranger on Dec 4, 2015 3:25:41 GMT -5
The character of Reuben Flagg is interesting-- he prefigured the idea of a reality tv star years before other media caught on-- but it's the depth of ideas and the incredibly rich supporting cast that sticks with you. Reuben's great on his own, but Reuben having to deal with Luther Ironheart (TM) is so goddamn inspired that you wonder why no one ran with that kind of relationship before. Or Reuben's relationship with Titania Weis, simultaneously the most shocking yet true-to-life romantic encounter you're ever going to see in comics. Basically, this is the Coen Brothers applied to comics before the Coen Brothers were a thing. This is one of the funniest comics you're ever going to read, and this is one of the most profound comics you're going to read. This is one of the first action comics that treats its cast like real people, but those real people (and cat) are perhaps the most neurotic bunch you're ever going to see. I'm never surprised when people don't like it because it defintely doesn't want to be liked. It's cynical, it's often offensive, and it may be too clever for its own good, but it's also inspired, brilliant, and way ahead of its time. It's an unconditional, unrestrained statement in a medium that likes to play it safe. (It's also really, really, really funny while being prescient in a scary way.)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2015 3:34:58 GMT -5
I just took a month off talking about comics, and I come back to this? ? Holy underwear, I NEED this thread.... TrueToTheCore, get ready, 'cause once you've posted your thoughts about the first issue, I'm going to gush about how the sequence between Reuben's arrival on Earth and the first showdown with the Go-Gang is the single best sequence in comics of all-time... The first year/14 issues of American Flagg! are, quite frankly, the best series of comics ever made. Lots of comics would try to duplicate them to more fanfare-- cough, cough, Dark Knight Returns-- but none hit that seemless marriage between idea and depiction (or writing and art, if you will.) This is where comics grew up, but unlike most of the work that followed, it was smart, it was witty, and it wasn't afraid to both try new things (narratively) and offend people. It also saw the future so clearly-- both the '90s and today's political situations (30 years later)-- that I have to wonder what Chaykin was on... well, we know that... I was just thinking I hadn't seen you around in a while, welcome back, hope all is well. Flagg is a series that intrigues me. Chaykin is a creator I admire (and a very interesting fellow to talk to the one time I had the chance to meet him at a con), but I've not read this yet. I am still assembling the run (I had near the whole run lined up to get from alocal buyer last summer but he disappeared from the face of the earth it seemed before we could get it done (his stall at a local antique market went bye bye and his contact info was no good). So I am interested in this thread, but I may not read too closely until I get my hands on what I am missing from the series to read it myself. -M |
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Post by fanboystranger on Dec 4, 2015 3:43:52 GMT -5
I bought the trades and loved the first volume. Very smart, and often very funny, writing. I didn't like the second nearly as much and quit reading in protest once Chaykin stopped doing the art. I need to at least finish Vol.2 one of these days... Volume 2-- or Amerikan Flagg! is interesting in that it's one of those comics where you can see a creator coming into their own. The first few issues aren't very good-- although perhaps the best work of Mike Vosberg's career up to that point (sorry, Sisterhood of Steel)-- but when John Francis Moore finds his own voice, it's a great comic. I'm not sure I've ever seen such a great turnaround in quality from a single, unmolested (meaning no changes) creative team. (*) No one really wanted to read the comic at that point, though. (*Maybe Brubaker/Pleece on Deadenders or Azzerello/Risso on 100 Bullets. They didn't have to deal with the pressure of relaunching a massively critically acclaimed series, though.) |
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Post by fanboystranger on Dec 4, 2015 4:07:05 GMT -5
I just took a month off talking about comics, and I come back to this? ? Holy underwear, I NEED this thread.... TrueToTheCore, get ready, 'cause once you've posted your thoughts about the first issue, I'm going to gush about how the sequence between Reuben's arrival on Earth and the first showdown with the Go-Gang is the single best sequence in comics of all-time... The first year/14 issues of American Flagg! are, quite frankly, the best series of comics ever made. Lots of comics would try to duplicate them to more fanfare-- cough, cough, Dark Knight Returns-- but none hit that seemless marriage between idea and depiction (or writing and art, if you will.) This is where comics grew up, but unlike most of the work that followed, it was smart, it was witty, and it wasn't afraid to both try new things (narratively) and offend people. It also saw the future so clearly-- both the '90s and today's political situations (30 years later)-- that I have to wonder what Chaykin was on... well, we know that... I was just thinking I hadn't seen you around in a while, welcome back, hope all is well. Flagg is a series that intrigues me. Chaykin is a creator I admire (and a very interesting fellow to talk to the one time I had the chance to meet him at a con), but I've not read this yet. I am still assembling the run (I had near the whole run lined up to get from alocal buyer last summer but he disappeared from the face of the earth it seemed before we could get it done (his stall at a local antique market went bye bye and his contact info was no good). So I am interested in this thread, but I may not read too closely until I get my hands on what I am missing from the series to read it myself. -M Everything is good. Just crazy busy over the past few weeks, and didn't feel much like talking about comics. Not so much because anything specific-- certainly nothing here, which I've always found an oasis of appreciation and knowledge in a desert of negativity (basically Moorcock's Tanelorn but applied to comics)-- but just sorta tired of trying to intellectualize a medium that I love on an emotional level. I was basically tired of explaining why I love comics (or at least what I feel are good comics) to people who seemed like they hate them but can't walk away. (Again, not here.) The funny thing is that I've probably bought more new comics and enjoyed them in the past two months than I have in years. I think the catalyst for me coming back was that my brothers had watched the Batman vs Superman trailer today, and wanted to know what I thought about it. I mentioned all the obvious homages, and they didn't get it. I mean, Batman hanging from a building while lightning crashes-- c'mon, one of the most famous covers in comics. I wanted to discuss things with people who actually knew what they were talking about again. Of course, it doesn't hurt that there's an American Flagg! thread now!  (Speaking of not wanting to intellectualize something that I love on a emotional level...) |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 4, 2015 8:54:31 GMT -5
Very smart, and often very funny, writing. "Very smart" are words I often associate with Chaykin's writing. Irreverent, too. He's like the Harlan Ellison of comics. |
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Post by hondobrode on Dec 4, 2015 21:17:11 GMT -5
I have the both entire runs of Flagg and love all of it even though it's not as strong later on.
This cemented Chaykin's true creative genius in my mind. There's been lots of other entertaining, if similar toned, characters and storylines later, but none have matched Flagg.
I even bought the digital collection recently and re-read and loved it again.
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Post by berkley on Dec 5, 2015 1:07:21 GMT -5
I missed this series when it first came out but I do have the first 12 issues, which I heard somewhere are the essential ones. I read the first 3 or 4 about a year ago and was very impressed but became distracted by other things and still haven't gotten back to it, so this might be a good opportunity for me to start over again from the beginning.
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? Holy underwear, I NEED this thread....
(Speaking of not wanting to intellectualize something that I love on a emotional level...)
