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Post by dupersuper on Jan 4, 2016 12:00:07 GMT -5
It's tempting to see it that way, and the cast of characters was certainly rotating quickly enough to justify that interpretation, but Booster is the first character that Giffen truly seems excited about. He gives the entire issue over to Booster's introduction. I have to assume he therefore had some interest in the property. So I went back and re-read Booster Gold #1 just for fun tonight, and I was surprised to see just how much JL #4 borrows from that issue. DeMatteis seems to lift a few of Booster's lamer gags directly out of that story, we see that the only thing Booster seems to care about beyond fame and money is membership in the Justice League (a sentiment explicitly echoed in JL #4), and even the brilliant strategy he works out with Skeets to take down the bad guy by the end is closely paralleled by the last minute plan he works out with Blue Beetle in JL #4. It could all be coincidence, but it really looks like they took some care in how they approached Booster Gold. Thus, I suspect the omission of Skeets was deliberate, maybe because it would make Booster too insular and unlikely to talk to other members of the group. Booster will mention why he never brought Skeets along in the "Time & Time Again" story in the Superman books, so you'll see it addressed a couple years further into your Post-Crisis Superman thread. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 4, 2016 12:14:04 GMT -5
So I went back and re-read Booster Gold #1 just for fun tonight, and I was surprised to see just how much JL #4 borrows from that issue. DeMatteis seems to lift a few of Booster's lamer gags directly out of that story, we see that the only thing Booster seems to care about beyond fame and money is membership in the Justice League (a sentiment explicitly echoed in JL #4), and even the brilliant strategy he works out with Skeets to take down the bad guy by the end is closely paralleled by the last minute plan he works out with Blue Beetle in JL #4. It could all be coincidence, but it really looks like they took some care in how they approached Booster Gold. Thus, I suspect the omission of Skeets was deliberate, maybe because it would make Booster too insular and unlikely to talk to other members of the group. Booster will mention why he never brought Skeets along in the "Time & Time Again" story in the Superman books, so you'll see it addressed a couple years urther into your Post-Crisis Superman thread. It's been so long since I read Time & Again that I forgot Booster was even in it. Problem is, if neither Helfer, Giffen, nor DeMatteis were involved with that story, then it's just some other creator's interpretation and not "official," so to speak. Still, I'm glad it gets addressed somewhere. |
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Post by MDG on Jan 4, 2016 12:53:42 GMT -5
Justice League #5 - Ever since reading the second part of Helfer's introduction to the League I've been watching more carefully for what DeMatteis adds to Giffen's stories and breakdowns. It's often difficult to tell when DeMatteis' scripts are adding something amazingly fresh or are just reflecting what was already there in the breakdowns or in Maguire's finished art (and there's so much humor and characterization to be found there!), but here's a glaring example of DeMatteis' genius as he inserts a whole other level of comedy to the scene playing out, bringing Captain Marvel into it where he was clearly intended to be nothing more than an on-looker in this scene. This period was probably my high-water-mark interest in mainstream comics, largely due to Giffen, and I always thought DeMatteis was an odd--if not wrong--choice for the book. Nothing I'd seen from him before led me to believe he was particularly funny and I remember disliking most things his name was on (don't ask me what--also, bear in mind that I haven't read these since I bought them off the stands. What leads you to that conclusion? |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 4, 2016 17:06:39 GMT -5
Justice League #5 - Ever since reading the second part of Helfer's introduction to the League I've been watching more carefully for what DeMatteis adds to Giffen's stories and breakdowns. It's often difficult to tell when DeMatteis' scripts are adding something amazingly fresh or are just reflecting what was already there in the breakdowns or in Maguire's finished art (and there's so much humor and characterization to be found there!), but here's a glaring example of DeMatteis' genius as he inserts a whole other level of comedy to the scene playing out, bringing Captain Marvel into it where he was clearly intended to be nothing more than an on-looker in this scene. This period was probably my high-water-mark interest in mainstream comics, largely due to Giffen, and I always thought DeMatteis was an odd--if not wrong--choice for the book. Nothing I'd seen from him before led me to believe he was particularly funny and I remember disliking most things his name was on (don't ask me what--also, bear in mind that I haven't read these since I bought them off the stands. What leads you to that conclusion? The fact that the artwork in no way suggests Captain Marvel is a primary focus in those shots nor is playing an active role. Nothing Maguire is conveying, nor the arrangements laid out by Giffen's breakdowns, suggest the character holds anymore importance in the scene than Mister Miracle or Booster Gold. One thing I've come to understand about DeMatteis is he has an unexpected range. He runs the full gamut of it on Doctor Fate, for example, where the comedy is JUST as solid but the dark and serious stuff is even darker and more serious in contrast. |
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Post by Action Ace on Jan 4, 2016 17:39:08 GMT -5
COMMENTS ON #5
For all the talk about you don't need the big guns to make a Justice League comic successful, even the JLI's signature moment involves Batman punching out a Green Lantern.
The bottom panel of that page may be my favorite Maguire panel of all. He has Beetle reaching under his mask to wipe away the tears, uncommon attention to detail there. J'onn's grin passes for Joker level laughter in anyone else. Black Canary's sense of disbelief in missing out is also great.
I wonder if fictional Stone Ridge, VT, is anywhere near Rutland, VT.
The man who spotted Dr. Fate and sent the tip to Jack Ryder? He's none other than the mayor of Burlington, Vermont (and future Presidential candidate and Senator), Bernie Sanders.
Another good panel is the one where Batman states that they only have 52 hours to save the world. J'onn reminds him that they've done it before on a tighter schedule. Boosters reaction, "You have?!" Welcome to the big leagues Booster.
Sadly, it looks like Captain Marvel is on his way out. Unlike Dr. Light, I can understand why he was being pulled from the team.
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Post by Action Ace on Jan 4, 2016 17:41:24 GMT -5
Booster will mention why he never brought Skeets along in the "Time & Time Again" story in the Superman books, so you'll see it addressed a couple years urther into your Post-Crisis Superman thread. It's been so long since I read Time & Again that I forgot Booster was even in it. Problem is, if neither Helfer, Giffen, nor DeMatteis were involved with that story, then it's just some other creator's interpretation and not "official," so to speak. Still, I'm glad it gets addressed somewhere. The lead creator of that Superman arc is Booster's ...uh...creator, Dan Jurgens. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 4, 2016 18:02:58 GMT -5
Yeah that makes sense. It's hard to tell 'cause Giffen is also a pretty great humor writer.
I *really* like J.M.D.'s stuff - He's really the only American, mainstream writer in the '80s who was both doing the big superhero books (not Thriller or Strikeforce Moritaru or stuff for Epic) and aiming for the kind of thematic depth that Gerber, Englehart, Monech and Kirby (among others) strived for in the '70s.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 4, 2016 20:31:19 GMT -5
It's been so long since I read Time & Again that I forgot Booster was even in it. Problem is, if neither Helfer, Giffen, nor DeMatteis were involved with that story, then it's just some other creator's interpretation and not "official," so to speak. Still, I'm glad it gets addressed somewhere. The lead creator of that Superman arc is Booster's ...uh...creator, Dan Jurgens. Yup. But Jergens had no involvement in the Justice League, as far as I know. Thus, it's just one man's opinion of why that team did what they did, even if they were doing it with his character. |
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Post by shaxper on Jan 4, 2016 20:32:24 GMT -5
The man who spotted Dr. Fate and sent the tip to Jack Ryder? He's none other than the mayor of Burlington, Vermont (and future Presidential candidate and Senator), Bernie Sanders. wha...what?? I went back to look, and the guy who tips off Ryder is a young Letterman.   We never actually see the informant (referred to as "Chauncy"). This guy, from page one, vaguely resembles Sanders,  but I'm not really convinced it's supposed to be him.  (Sanders, as he appeared at the time) Assuming you were right though, in this age of ridiculous comic speculation over appearances in other media, I wonder if the first appearance of Bernie Sanders would be worth something right now... |
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Post by Action Ace on Jan 4, 2016 20:41:22 GMT -5
The man who spotted Dr. Fate and sent the tip to Jack Ryder? He's none other than the mayor of Burlington, Vermont (and future Presidential candidate and Senator), Bernie Sanders. wha...what?? I went back to look, and the guy who tips off Ryder is a young Letterman. To quote Wayne Campbell, "Fished in! Fished In!"  |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 4, 2016 20:43:52 GMT -5
wha...what?? I went back to look, and the guy who tips off Ryder is a young Letterman. To quote Wayne Campbell, "Fished in! Fished In!" You're an evil, evil man  |
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Post by tingramretro on Jan 5, 2016 2:36:14 GMT -5
The man who spotted Dr. Fate and sent the tip to Jack Ryder? He's none other than the mayor of Burlington, Vermont (and future Presidential candidate and Senator), Bernie Sanders. wha...what?? I went back to look, and the guy who tips off Ryder is a young Letterman.   We never actually see the informant (referred to as "Chauncy"). This guy, from page one, vaguely resembles Sanders,  but I'm not really convinced it's supposed to be him.  (Sanders, as he appeared at the time) Assuming you were right though, in this age of ridiculous comic speculation over appearances in other media, I wonder if the first appearance of Bernie Sanders would be worth something right now... I have absolutely no idea who any of these people are. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 5, 2016 5:31:53 GMT -5
I have absolutely no idea who any of these people are. David Letterman  One of the most popular American late night television show hosts of the past four decades. Bernie Sanders  United States Senator and candidate for President in the upcoming elections. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jan 5, 2016 11:15:51 GMT -5
I have absolutely no idea who any of these people are. David Letterman One of the most popular American late night television show hosts of the past four decades. Bernie Sanders United States Senator and candidate for President in the upcoming elections. Ah. I'm afraid these are areas of American life which have made little impact on me. Mostly, I just know about your comics. And Star Trek. |
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Post by MDG on Jan 5, 2016 12:32:57 GMT -5
I don't think that guy's supposed to be Letterman--just a guy wearing a Letterman t-shirt (equaling "hip").
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