shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 5, 2016 12:34:45 GMT -5
Mostly, I just know about your comics. And Star Trek. Fair enough. I know Shakespeare and Doctor Who
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 5, 2016 12:35:05 GMT -5
I don't think that guy's supposed to be Letterman--just a guy wearing a Letterman t-shirt (equaling "hip"). Well he's got the ears and teeth. Pretty distinct.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 5, 2016 13:24:48 GMT -5
I don't think that guy's supposed to be Letterman--just a guy wearing a Letterman t-shirt (equaling "hip"). I agree. I also don't ever remember Letterman having a mullet.
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Post by tingramretro on Jan 5, 2016 13:32:02 GMT -5
Mostly, I just know about your comics. And Star Trek. Fair enough. I know Shakespeare and Doctor Who What, personally?
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Post by Action Ace on Jan 5, 2016 18:53:22 GMT -5
To quote Wayne Campbell, "Fished in! Fished In!" You're an evil, evil man Sir Simon Milligan evil
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 5, 2016 20:10:01 GMT -5
Fair enough. I know Shakespeare and Doctor Who What, personally? Well, if I know The Doctor personally, that certainly makes the other a viable possibility...
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 5, 2016 20:57:09 GMT -5
Happy one week anniversary, this thread!
I was all set to post my review of Justice League #6 tonight when I suddenly realized that Justice League Annual #1 came first by three weeks. So, no review tonight, but you just might get two tomorrow.
Sorry for the wait!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 6, 2016 20:22:59 GMT -5
Justice League Annual #1 "Germ Warfare" plot and breakdowns: Keith Giffen script: J.M. DeMatteis pencils: Bill Willingham inks: (various) letters: Bob Lappan colors: Gene D'Angelo editor: Andy Helfer grade: C Ah, the team receives its first annual...after five long months of publication. Does that seem a little early to anyone else? I suppose it's possible that DC had a tight schedule for annuals and needed Justice League here so that everyone's annuals weren't hitting stands at the same time, but I wonder if instead this came from the immediate success the title was having (while exact publishing numbers aren't available, Helfer was going on and on about the reaction in the letter cols). First, try giving them an extra (and extra expensive) issue to buy (this annual), then an extra-large, extra-expensive new first issue with #7 two months later, and, in a short while, split the team off into two titles. Money money money money. But yeah, this issue was clearly a rush job, as the six different inkers assigned to this issue suggest. Maguire's absence is sorely felt, the plot is largely repetitive of the Gray Man storyline (one evil being spreading its consciousness by infecting all of the world's population and turning them into mindless drones, but the only one who can stop it is Doctor Fate), and instead of it being carefully planned to tie in neatly with the main title, we're told it takes place between issues #4 and #5 (because the storyline began in #5 is still going at this point), which plays out really awkwardly since so much change occurred in issue #5. First off, the tension between Guy and Batman, once fun and comical, now feels repetitive because this conflict was reconciled in #5. And, whereas Batman was beginning to lighten up with the team and even crack jokes, his characterization necessarily has to be retroactive, as well. Frustrating to be taking these steps backward. I wonder if I would have enjoyed this story more had I read it prior to #5. So, a pretty forgettable story, and I still have no idea how a cell was accidentally given the intelligence of a human being in a genetic laboratory and then was able to influence cells around it, yet not properly infect or mutate them because, once that one cell is contained, everything reverts to normal. It's awful pseudo-science, even moreso than what I've come to accept in comics of that era. Maybe this would have flown in the Silver Age. The PROS of this issue:1) It's beginning to occur to me, more and more, just how little regard this title has had for the individual heroes' lives outside of the League. We've talked about Booster not having Skeats, and Batman not ever mentioning Robin nor his obligations in Gotham, but it didn't even occur to me until now that Blue Beetle is supposed to be running a multi-million dollar company comparable to Maxwell Lord's holdings in the world. Fortunately, this issue finally takes time to address that, having the gene issue occur at Kord Industries. Of course, it's then all the more problematic that Beetle was the last to know that something had gone haywire within his own company. This story definitely doesn't reveal any other side of Beetle to us -- there's no shrewd, confident, capable CEO beneath that mask. When asked how he juggles it all, Beetle's reply is ""Nervous breakdowns every second Sunday." Still little more than a character there for comic relief at this point. 2) J'onn donning the Helm of Fate. This should have been the coolest moment in the story, but it wasn't. Rather than watching mystical powers surge through the Martian while Fate speaks through him in eerie mystical lettering, he just puts the helmet down after a split second and knows what he needs to know. ...and that knowledge (that all of this is being caused by a sentient cell) is damn ridiculous. The CONS1) I'm still disturbed by the Dr. Light / Batman kiss. I guess it made sense if she was looking for an opportunity to invade Batman's cells that he wouldn't anticipate, but it was just...awkward. Speaking of which, why did Giffen feel the need to bring Dr. Light back for this story, only a month after booting her from the team? 2) The ending. Up until now, this title has done a pretty good job of telling me everything I need to know about these characters in order to enjoy the stories. My lack of familiarity with any one of them has not been prohibitive, and yet the highly dramatic ending of this story hinges entirely upon the reader understanding something about Martian Manhunter that I clearly do not. What won't he go through again? Did he experience a plague before? Is that what killed all the other Martians?? Why can't DeMatteis help me to understand this?? All in all, a forgettable story that felt utterly rushed and poorly timed to boot. The first Justice League story yet to not impress me. Minor Details:Batman is usually the master strategist, and yet they charge into this situation with absolutely no plan. If not for comic book style luck, they would have failed big time (and, of course, no other heroes were going to show up in time to save the world because this isn't anyone else's title). Batman did this just last issue with the Gray Man as well, but that was different. Dr. Fate told the League to come, and Batman trusts Dr. Fate. Also, the clock was ticking in that scenario, whereas here there was no imminent threat. This mission seemed extremely ill-advised. Plot synopsis:
The League is alerted to a bunch of folks in Tokyo acting like zombies. They decide to show up without a plan (as always) and are immediately brainwashed except for Martian Manhunter, who proves immune. He uses the Helm of Fate to help him, and the Helm ultimately tells him he must absorb the sentient cell causing all of this in order to stop the problem. This torments him, but he does it, thus saving the day,
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 6, 2016 20:33:55 GMT -5
I have no recollection of that story.... but Bill Willingham on art?? That's kinda cool. I forget he was an artist first....
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 6, 2016 20:37:15 GMT -5
I have no recollection of that story.... but Bill Willingham on art?? That's kinda cool. I forget he was an artist first.... It's funny. I figured this was very early in Willingham's career, but the man was already 31 by this point. I guess he didn't really earn mass fan attention until Fables.
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Post by Action Ace on Jan 6, 2016 20:47:48 GMT -5
Flash and Adventures of Superman also had Annuals come out this month. June 1987A LOT of notable comics came out the same month that Guy got "one punched," right down to the Superman/ Barda/Sleeze story.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 20:52:01 GMT -5
Martian Manhunter donning the Helmet of Fate and I did not see that coming on this thread!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 6, 2016 21:12:28 GMT -5
Justice League #6 "Massacre in Gray" plot and breakdowns: Keith Giffen script: J.M. DeMatteis pencils: Kevin Maguire inks: Al Gordon letters: Bob Lappan colors: Gene D'Angelo editor: Andy Helfer grade: D+ And here we have the second ever issue of Justice League that I did not enjoy. The real problem lies in the fact that this entire conflict is way outside of the scope of the Justice League, or, as Blue Beetle says in this issue (using the same bad pun I used in my review of #5): Really, why IS the League there? Why not call upon Phantom Stranger or someone of a similar caliber? I guess it must be because Dr. Fate is desperate; there's no time left and no one else to call upon. Oh wait, no. That's not it at all. Ah, a cheap last minute deus et machina to conclude an otherwise impossible to conclude issue that would have had to end with the end of the world. "Ha ha ha! I had the power to stop you all along; this was all just a ruse!". What a damn cheat, and then why did he call on the League to rush down here and help him out anyway? I don't think Giffen and DeMatteis thought their last minute solution through all that clearly. Yes, I get the point being emphasized once again that this team is thoroughly unqualified to be big time players. Once again, they are not the ones saving the day. Whether in circumstances of international diplomacy (issues #2 and 3), science (Annual #1), or mysticism and spirituality (this and issue #5), they are completely out of their league. Once again, I surmise that Giffen's point is to capture and comment upon Generation X -- born of baby boomers who over-indulged them to the point that America became a nation of instant gratification: "Just give me super powers and a cool costume; I'll figure out the rest as I go." Meanwhile, Batman, Martian Manhunter, and Dr. Fate, representing the older generation, come from a different mentality and appear to be the only capable ones on the team. Justice League Scorecard to Date: #1: N/A (they won, but it was all a setup arranged by Maxwell Lord) #2: Loss (they leaped into the situation without looking and had to back off when they got in over their heads) #3: N/A (over their heads once again, they stepped aside and let the Russians take care of things) #4: N/A (Booster won for them when not yet a member of the team, and it sure looks like this was another setup by Maxwell Lord) #5: N/A (two parter, resolved in this issue) Annual #1: Win (by elder members Martian Manhunter and Dr. Fate, while the core membership of the team got their butts handed to them) #6: Win (by elder member Doctor Fate, while the core membership of the team got their butts handed to them). Clearly, there's a pattern here. Guy Gardner, Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Mister Miracle, and Captain Marvel weren't going to win the day on their own anytime soon. But why does Black Canary not get cast in the role of elder? A year from now, Secret Origins #32 will establish that she was a founding member of The Justice League. Perhaps that hadn't been determined yet, though she did make a comment at the beginning of the first issue suggesting she'd been on the team before. Important Details:- Up until now, we knew there'd been a previous Justice League, but this is the first issue to suggest that the extent of the team's legacy is similar to what it was in the Pre-Crisis. Here's Hal Jordan speaking to Maxwell Lord about the team: - At another point in the issue (though I forgot to photograph it), Batman acknowledges that Martian Manhunter has been a member of the League longer than he has. - In the letter col, Andy Helfer writes that "we've just about nailed down our roster of new members both visiting and permanent) for the rest of the year." For the rest of the year? Does this mean there was a plan in place to keep the membership rotating over time, rather than staying static? I suppose change has always been inevitable for both the Justice League and The Avengers over the years, but I wasn't expecting to hear an editor purposefully plan for such a thing, especially when sales were strong. Minor Details:- More of DeMatteis pouring personality into a panel that clearly wasn't intended to convey all that he added to it: I love his sense of timing, even within a single frozen image. - Similarly, I'm getting more of a sense of what Al Gordon is bringing to this team with his inking. Check out the range in comparing these two pages, which occur only two pages apart from one another: Talk about capturing a diversity of tones through inking. Nothing about how Maguire is drawing these two pages looks particularly different beyond the poses and facial expressions. the rest is Gordon. So a disappointing conclusion to a two part story that didn't really warrant two parts and never felt like a good fit for this team, even for the purpose of proving a point about their unreadiness. I wonder if the rush to complete Annual #1 adversely affected the execution of this story. Perhaps it could have been resolved better if Giffen had been given more time. Plot synopsis:
The League arrives, The Gray Man mind controls Captain Marvel and uses him to attack them, but Martian Manhunter is able to snap Marvel out of it, we cut to Hal Jordan telling off Maxwell Lord for how he is manipulating The League to suit his own ends, and then we cut back to the Gray Man storyline, watching him trounce the League, only to have Fate reveal at the close that he could have stopped him at any time with the blink of an eye but was trying to teach him a lesson. The story ends on that random deus et machina note, with Fate teleporting the team somewhere for some reason, but leaving behind Martian Manhunter and an unconscious Captain Marvel.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 6, 2016 21:26:49 GMT -5
I'm thinking some of this might be generational - You didn't grow up on '70s comics, right? Basically, from about 1971-1977 superheroes got their butts handed to them all the time. I never even noticed the in-effectualness of this version of the league because it was what I was used to - They weren't much less competent than, say, during Len Wein's run.
(I suspect that the switchover to the more badass eighties version had to do with changing audience demographics - More adult readers required more powerful power fantasies!)
Giffen had worked for Marvel in the '70s and J. M. DeMatties seemed fairly old-school in this regard; Compare Kraven's Last Hunt (Spider-man gets beaten and buried alive) to Roger Stern's stuff, where Spider-man beats up the ''70s-Gerry-Conway-created Tarantula (who'd been a fairly difficult opponent before) in three panels to demonstrate that Spider-man is TEH POWERFULLLZZZ NAOW!
(How fan-fictiony was it? It was so fanfictiony. I still love you, Tarantula!)
So honestly, I don't think the JL creative team intended this as commentary, so much as being a little out-of-date in how SUPER POWERFUL GRRR! all the heroes were supposed to be in the '80s.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 6, 2016 21:30:57 GMT -5
I'm thinking some of this might be generational - You didn't grow up on '70s comics, right? Basically, from about 1971-1977 superheroes got their butts handed to them all the time. I never even noticed the in-effectualness of this version of the league because it was what I was used to - They weren't much less competent than, say, during Len Wein's run. (I suspect that the switchover to the more badass eighties version had to do with changing audience demographics - More adult readers required more powerful power fantasies!) Giffen had worked for Marvel in the '70s and J. M. DeMatties seemed fairly old-school in this regard; Compare Kraven's Last Hunt (Spider-man gets beaten and buried alive) to Roger Stern's stuff, where Spider-man beats up the ''70s-Gerry-Conway-created Tarantula (who'd been a fairly difficult opponent before) in three panels to demonstrate that Spider-man is TEH POWERFULLLZZZ NAOW! (How fan-fictiony was it? It was so fanfictiony. I still love you, Tarantula!) So honestly, I don't think the JL creative team intended this as commentary, so much as being a little out-of-date in how SUPER POWERFUL GRRR! all the heroes were supposed to be in the '80s. The difference is, in those '70s thrashings, the purpose they served was to heighten the dramatic potential. The heroes would be deeply shaken or frustrated by their failures, in spite of having tried their best. These guys don't even seem to realize they aren't winning. No one has yet said "Wait, in six missions, we haven't once done something right." They are completely unaware of just how useless they are, and that's what I see as being new. There's a certain arrogance in their total lack of self-awareness, even the more timid members of the group don't get it.
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