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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 29, 2016 19:34:07 GMT -5
I think they actually cross with Guy during the Major Glory (or whatever they Cap analogue's name is) too.
I'm really glad they didn't actually go with G'nort.. he was super annoying.
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Post by Action Ace on Apr 29, 2016 19:54:25 GMT -5
COMMENTS ON #17
Oh look, it's Sam Neill again.
Batman gets called cowled cretin again, this time by Green Flame.
Back to back mentions in JLI will be the high point of Jim Nabors career until he gets mentioned in The Simpsons in 1993.
The writers seemed to have no idea what to do with the three that went along with Batman other than providing the comedy.
Another fight involving Captain Atom that ends with a mushroom cloud. I assume Sam Neill had some Bat anti-radiation poisoning pills in his pocket for everyone nearby.
Green Flame and Jack O'Lantern remember they were on the same team once. I'm a little shocked.
Not an L-Ron look I want to remember.
J'onn uses the eenie meenie miney mo method to figure out where to go next in the ship.
I could easily imagine Guy as a member of the Los Angeles Thunderbirds roller derby team. Good call Waid.
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Post by Action Ace on Apr 29, 2016 20:03:55 GMT -5
Guy has just a bit part, but he's back in #18...all the way back. Trust me. The covers to #18 and #19 alone have had me psyched for quite a while now  I started picking up the series with issue #40. Issues #18 and 19 were the last two back issues I bought because they were way overpriced due to Lobo. If I recall correctly, I finally got them in 1998 or 1999 for less than a dollar. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 29, 2016 21:10:00 GMT -5
The Justice League Scorecard (as of Justice League International #17)
W = win
W* = win with a significant technicality
L = loss
X = someone else won for them
Justice League #1: W* (Maxwell Lord set the whole thing up so that they'd win)
Justice League #2: L (They retreat from Balian airspace under orders from their airforce)
Justice League #3: X (The Russians, with some helpful suggestions from Maxwell Lord, save the day)
Justice League #4: W* (Maxwell Lord set the whole thing up so that Booster Gold would win)
Justice League #5 (not resolved until the next issue)
Justice League Annual #1: W* (Senior members Martian Manhunter and Dr. Fate save the day when the rest of the team was too incompetent to do a darn thing)
Justice League #6: X (Dr. Fate saves the day, making it abundantly clear that The League was not needed at all)
Justice League International #7: W* (another set-up by an outside benefactor to deliver the team an easy and high profile win)
Justice League International #8: (no mission)
Justice League International #9: X (The Rocket Reds save the day, though Booster Gold does get the final moment of glory after it's all been said and done).
Justice League International #10: X (only one member of the team was even present in the lead story, and someone else saved the day in the B story too)
Millennium: X (Booster Gold saved the day while not affiliated with the JLI)
Justice League International #11: W* (The whole victory was a setup by a villain with a larger plan for the team)
Justice League International #12: X (The team flies around confused while Maxwell Lord saves the day)
Justice League International #13: (part one of a two parter)
Suicide Squad #13: W* (They get out of the other team's way more than actively do something to win or lose)
Justice League International Annual #2: X (Barda saves the day)
Justice League International #14: (part one of a two parter)
Justice League International #15: W (first actual win, even if most of the work was done by outsiders and brand new team members)
Justice League International #16: (part one of a two parter)
Justice League International #17: L (Queen Bee has both international law and the support of her people on her side. See ya, JLI)
Total wins: 1
Total wins with significant technicalities: 6 (most staged by some other party so that the League would win)
Total wins by someone else: 7
Total Losses: 2
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Post by dupersuper on Apr 29, 2016 21:22:19 GMT -5
Major Glory (or whatever they Cap analogue's name is) General |
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Post by tingramretro on Apr 30, 2016 1:34:47 GMT -5
Major Glory (or whatever they Cap analogue's name is) General Major General? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2016 9:01:40 GMT -5
tingramretro dupersuper is right ... It's General Glory |
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Post by JKCarrier on Apr 30, 2016 11:41:08 GMT -5
Looking at the images above again, the ones where DeMatteis' humor just isn't coming off so well, and comparing them to the previous Maguire-less issues where it was much stronger, I think the problem is that Maguire's art is both incredibly powerful and non-stop. DeMatteis always seems to be at his strongest in the JLI books when he finds an opportunity for humor in an otherwise low energy panel or moment; Maguire isn't leaving him any. Maguire is such a master over his panels here that it's challenging for DeMatteis to insert any humor into them that wasn't already intended. That's a very interesting observation. While the plot-art-dialogue method (aka "Marvel method") has a lot of advantages, especially from a production standpoint, there are drawbacks too. I remember reading an interview with Roy Thomas where he talked about writing X-Men and the challenges of working with different artists. He said that Werner Roth would tend to draw every character in a panel with their mouths open, which meant he had to write dialogue for all of them and it was sometimes hard to fit it all in. On the other hand, Neal Adams liked to leave big empty spaces on the page, and Roy would have to come up with something relevant to put in there. |
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Post by tingramretro on Apr 30, 2016 15:58:00 GMT -5
tingramretro dupersuper is right ... It's General GloryYes. I know. It was what we Earthlings call a 'joke'... |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 30, 2016 22:02:41 GMT -5
Looking at the images above again, the ones where DeMatteis' humor just isn't coming off so well, and comparing them to the previous Maguire-less issues where it was much stronger, I think the problem is that Maguire's art is both incredibly powerful and non-stop. DeMatteis always seems to be at his strongest in the JLI books when he finds an opportunity for humor in an otherwise low energy panel or moment; Maguire isn't leaving him any. Maguire is such a master over his panels here that it's challenging for DeMatteis to insert any humor into them that wasn't already intended. That's a very interesting observation. While the plot-art-dialogue method (aka "Marvel method") has a lot of advantages, especially from a production standpoint, there are drawbacks too. I remember reading an interview with Roy Thomas where he talked about writing X-Men and the challenges of working with different artists. He said that Werner Roth would tend to draw every character in a panel with their mouths open, which meant he had to write dialogue for all of them and it was sometimes hard to fit it all in. On the other hand, Neal Adams liked to leave big empty spaces on the page, and Roy would have to come up with something relevant to put in there. Fascinating. And all the messier a process when you have three talents involved, as in the case of JLI. Thanks for all of this. |
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Post by shaxper on May 1, 2016 11:59:05 GMT -5
Justice League International Annual #2  "Hit or Miss!" plot: Keith Giffen script: J.M. DeMatteis pencils: Bill Willingham inks: Joe Rubinstein letters: John Costanza colors: Gene D'Angelo editor: Andy Helfer grade: A- My bad for not getting to this one sooner, as Black Canary's absence and Mister Miracle inclusion sets this story just prior to Justice League International #14. Of course, that still begs the question of why the team feels like it can summon Batman if he just quit that month at the end of a two month story arc, prior to which, Flame and Ice Maiden weren't on the team yet (and they clearly are here). Continuity apparently wasn't a priority for this story. It's nice to see another story in which DeMatteis' scripting is unimpeded by Maguire's brilliant but uncompromising artwork. Look how much better DeMatteis' humor lands with Willingham's pacing and panel arrangements:  Once again, DeMatteis thrives when artists serve him a panel where nothing much is happening, and (once again) Maguire just isn't leaving him any of those. Beyond that, this is possibly the most "Bwahaha" story I've yet seen from the Bwahaha Justice League. It's an absolutely absurd story that refuses to take itself seriously on any level and is brilliant as a result. This sort of approach gets tedious when done excessively, but it was served up perfectly here. Essentially, we watch The League wander through the most unremarkable of day-in-the-life adventures (Flame and Ice Maiden try out for a modelling gig, J'onn and Dmitri check out a Russian restaurant, Booster and Beetle try to get side jobs as repo guys, and Scott,Barda, and occasionally Guy prepare for a barbecue) all while the Joker is pursuing them and trying to kill them. Of course, this is Giffen's Joker, and so he's a little...less threatening. Still insane, still a cold blooded killer, but just a little too average American for his own good:   And so there are no huge theatrics nor brilliant, meticulous plans. He just follows the League around in a limo and tries to shoot them with a sniper rifle. And it doesn't go so well for him. But, in great comic style, he's so impotent that The League doesn't even know that they're being pursued. So the whole thing climaxes with the big JLI barbecue:  that the gang rides to in an experimental tank that Booster and Beetle just repossessed, parking the thing in an average suburban driveway, until the Joker shows up once again, now pursued by a terrorist cell that thinks he's the one who stole their tank. And, far from being effective, the Joker then inflicts his only damage in this story by accidentally driving the tank in reverse through a neighbor's home. At this point, the League is too dumbfounded to do much, but Barda (whose characterization I otherwise have not appreciated in this volume) almost thankfully jumps out of the suburban housewife role she's been begrudgingly attempting to play, and then kicks some serious butt:   GREAT climax to a great issue. And the resolution is pretty hilarious as well:  Does any of this fit the real DCU all that well? Probably not. That's the wrong Batmobile, it makes no sense that The Joker's only goal in doing all this was to learn Batman's secret identity in exchange for killing the League for Harjavti (so not his M.O), as I mentioned earlier these events don't easily fit the main JLI continuity, and then there's this little detail that really irked me:  Aren't they BOTH multi-millionaires in their own titles??? I'm also not sure that anything ever became of this final moment in regular continuity:  But we can put all that aside, surrender the urge to view this story with a critical lens, and just enjoy the hijinks. Sometimes, that's what Giffen and DeMatteis do best. Plot synopsis: Pretty much covered above. |
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Post by tingramretro on May 1, 2016 14:59:00 GMT -5
Booster and Beetle are no longer millionaires at this point. Both of them lost their own books in the wake of Millennium and both of them ended up broke at the end of their book's runs.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 1, 2016 15:02:02 GMT -5
Booster and Beetle are no longer millionaires at this point. Both of them lost their own books in the wake of Millennium and both of them ended up broke at the end of their book's runs. Thanks for explaining this. Would have been nice for Helfer to be similarly courteous. |
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Post by Action Ace on May 1, 2016 16:04:52 GMT -5
COMMENTS ON ANNUAL #2 I forgot this in the #17 comments, Black Canary torches her new outfit and returns to the fishnets in Action Comics Weekly #609 this month. Bill Willingham's art was quite good. I did not know it at the time, but the first time I saw his art was in various Dungeons and Dragons ads and products in the late 1970s and early 1980s. I'm thinking the Bat Office did not have any idea about what the JLI creative team was doing in this issue. The issue starts with the soon to be late Colonel Harjarvti rummaging through the rubble at the recently destroyed Innovative Concepts Building looking for Max Lord's rolodex. But "Emmett Kelly" beat him to the punch. The deal is Joker kills the JLI and the good Colonel will use his secret police on the names in the rolodex to find out Batman's secret identity for The Joker. With that flimsy pretext out of the way, hijinks ensue. This will not be Lucy and Ethel's, I mean Booster and Beetle's, last get rich quick scheme. Booster reveals that he is an atheist. Fire goes out for a modelling job and Ice gets it instead...classic. Great ending and a SOLID W for the JLI.  Our next trip outside the main JLI book looks to be Secret Origins #32-35. |
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Post by shaxper on May 1, 2016 17:05:17 GMT -5
Our next trip outside the main JLI book looks to be Secret Origins #32-35. Ah, more books for me to buy... |
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